HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
How far would he have taken them?
Or say, it played to script and they played UNLV. Same results or different?
Or say, it played to script and they played UNLV. Same results or different?
Huge hypothetical here, if Fran had Raveling's recruits
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HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
If Fran had all of the talent at his finger tips.....how far would he go with it?
Saw a stat where Fran is only 1 of 4 coaches with 30 years of coaching since World War 2 that does not have a Sweet 16 appearance.
So, say we give Fran an uber-talented team....does he get over the hump?
guffus
Well-Known Member
Yes?
The 1987 team under Tom Davis went 30-5 and got a #2 seed and made it to the elite 8, of course it took a miracle shot by Gamble against Oklahoma in the sweet 16 game just to make the elite 8.
But the point is it was a super talented and deep team that played a fast paced tempo. That plays to Fran's strengths and style.
In the end, probably the only coach who wouldn't have got Iowa to the sweet 16 that year was Raveling himself.
The 1987 team under Tom Davis went 30-5 and got a #2 seed and made it to the elite 8, of course it took a miracle shot by Gamble against Oklahoma in the sweet 16 game just to make the elite 8.
But the point is it was a super talented and deep team that played a fast paced tempo. That plays to Fran's strengths and style.
In the end, probably the only coach who wouldn't have got Iowa to the sweet 16 that year was Raveling himself.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Your last point about Raveling may be correct. If you recall, I think he had a USC team that lost in the second round as a 2 seed.
I definitely could see Raveling losing in the 1987 second round. Those UTEP teams under Haskins were kind of dangerous. That team had Tim Hardaway and pushed Iowa to the limit.. They knocked off 1 seeded Kansas a few years later in the second round, as well. 1992 I think?
As for Fran, if he had that 1987 Iowa team, it's hard to say but I suspect the regular season results would have been similar. It's hard to predict NCAA results. Its such a crap shoot.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Another question is Fran a better xs and os coach than Raveling? I'm actually inclined to think yes here based on Raveling's career results.
1980HAWKFAN
Well-Known Member
I would say if you are speculating on how Fran does with some other coaches recruits, then I would assume you think his recruiting sucks. Over the years he's probably like a lot of coaches....you hit some you miss some. I wouldn't think anyone would think Garza, Jbo, Weiskamp, Murray's were a miss. On the other hand, he seems to have a lot of misses in the depth category and point guard position. I will give Franny some slack this season because of 2 players if were still here would have made a huge difference. Weisy and Nunge.
That OU team that year was really good and werent they the ones who were upset a year or so later by Kansas and Manning?? So no surprise that was a close game that Gamble hit that shot in.
The worst part was having the huge lead on UNLV and the hawks couldnt get the win to go to the final four. Mr. Davis would have been one of Iowa's best Bball coaches if that happened and he may have got a few more big time recruits later on.
Fran is a pretty good in game coach which is what it takes come tourney time against teams that you dont know much about and will throw everything at you. Fran has good out of bounds plays, he has a pretty good motion and high screen offense. BJ would have been head and shoulders above any pt guard Fran has had himself at Iowa and to me and many others a top pt guard is the main thing missing from Fran and a deep run or a Big title.
Raveling and Alford in my opinion were not very good in game coaches as I saw them blitzed on more than one occasion and not have an answer and not even coach their players on the best way to change what they were doing poorly.
tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
Yes. Raveling also was a terrible manager of players. Someone got hot shooting, he would take them out instead of letting them continue their streak.
Great recruiter. Terrible bench coach.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
George was the most casual of coaches
99topdawg
Well-Known Member
Iowa had 6 NBA players on the '87 team. That's better than anything Fran has had. He's won a lot of games with less.
Fran's won 20+ 8 times in 9 years. Won 18 in his 2nd season after taking over for that one guy who shall not be named.
Tom won 20+ in 10 of 13 seasons.
In the last 10 seasons for each, Davis won 62.9% and Fran has won 60.5%.
I'd like to see what Fran could've done. Having said that, I think Mr. Davis and his staff was a hell of a lot better than Fran and his, but I was curious about the comparison in wins.
Another question is, would the Tom Davis press still work today? I've heard some "experts" say it wouldn't, but I'm not sure I agree. Maybe to the extent it did 35 years ago, but I do think it would work.
Fran's won 20+ 8 times in 9 years. Won 18 in his 2nd season after taking over for that one guy who shall not be named.
Tom won 20+ in 10 of 13 seasons.
In the last 10 seasons for each, Davis won 62.9% and Fran has won 60.5%.
I'd like to see what Fran could've done. Having said that, I think Mr. Davis and his staff was a hell of a lot better than Fran and his, but I was curious about the comparison in wins.
Another question is, would the Tom Davis press still work today? I've heard some "experts" say it wouldn't, but I'm not sure I agree. Maybe to the extent it did 35 years ago, but I do think it would work.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
You must know that a lot of the wins by Fran don’t count. We all know that a lot of KF’s wins don’t count. Now we can add Brands to that group. Most of his wins are against lesser opponents. His real coaching and recruiting skills are painfully absent! PSU kicked our ass.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Only thing I would say here, as devil's advocate, is he has a terrible Big Ten Tourney Record, has not got out of the first weekend in the NCAAs ever.
The positives though:
-He has done well winning the first round game in the NCAAs.
-He had that long run in the NIT to the title game in his early years at Iowa. I still remember being a spectator at Carver as a part of that run. That was one of the loudest games I had ever been to at Carver. That game was a blast and that run was a blast. I remember thinking at the time that if Fran could do this well in a post season tournament, I could not wait to see what he could do in the NCAAs.
That said, it could be argued that the NIT can be fools gold. I am not 100% sure here, but I think Penn St has had a lot of success in the NIT (did not they not win it once). And, yet, Penn St is a nobody in basketball and it never elevated their program.
However, I'm sure we can find example of programs who excelled in the NIT and then made a splash in the NCAAs not to long after that.
Fran was able to take that NIT run and build on it getting Iowa back to the NCAAs. I have said before, I think this is Fran's greatest accomplishment at Iowa in taking the program from the dead and making it competitive again.
My fear is though, this is the ceiling for him. I hope I'm wrong here and he will be able to produce a significant accomplishment post-season wise in the rest of his career at Iowa.
But, his 30 year career in coaching basketball at the D1 level has not produced anything remarkable. This also includes having the Player of Year on one of his teams (Garza).......and quite possibly (still need to see how this year plays out) having the best if not one of the best players in the Big Ten (KM) the following year.
I honestly don't know the answer to this, but did his Siena teams have "a complete team." Meaning across the board.....guards, to forwards, to centers were all good? Obviously we know they did not advance past the first weekend there as well. Or you could ask the same question at the 2 colleges before Siena (Leigh and UNC Greensboro). At Siena and UNC he did have his team finish 1st in those conferences.
If Fran ever had a complete team, it would be something to see what he could do with one. I think we have never seen at Iowa Fran with a great point guard and a great center at the same time. I think those are the missing ingredients along with some glaring lacking fundamentals on defensive assignments in the zone and man.
I think Fran recruits pretty well (not exceptionally well though) at that 3/4 position.....probably over stockpiled at these positions most of the time.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Nah, just four decades ahead of his time. Now no one wears suits and ties on the sidelines.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
That's been brought up before and now youngest son Jack is on the horizon. It's the perfect fodder for the competition to use against us.
That said Jack, who I first met as a fifth grader when my son tried out for the Barnstormers, is supposed to be the best of Fran's three boys
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Since 1980 Minnesota has won two NIT's and been runner up two other times and may have had another title vacated. The list shows the champions in 1997, 98 and 2003 had their titles stripped and one of them may have been the Gophs.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
If Jack decides to go to Iowa, he just might be the first 7' point guard in the BigTen
