Howe: Big Ten Hoops Power Rankings 1-14

[lightning1]

I'm not going to make you see your mistake in saying Fran has accomplished NOTHING, am I? Go ahead and die on that hill. I'm not going to continue to debate something within someone who struggles with reading comprehension.

I'll gladly die on that hill.

 

[RobHowe]

Let me put it this way. If the previous owner of a house burned it to the ground and I came in and rebuilt it to what it was prior to the previous tenant....what did I accomplish, exactly?

LOL. Seriously? There'd be a freaking house where there wasn't one after the fire. Whoever rebuilt it accomplished something.

I'm done, dude. You're making little to no sense. Later.

 

[lightning1]

I think you're missing Rob's point.

I get his point perfectly. All of the things that Rob listed are accomplishments to someone. They just aren't accomplishments to me. I'm sure the almost ran seasons and All BIG players are accomplishments to Rob or you, or someone else. I'm fine with that. They mean nothing to me. I enjoyed watching some of the games that were played in that time span. Far fewer than I have cringed at, unfortunately.

 

[lightning1]

LOL. Seriously? There'd be a freaking house where there wasn't one after the fire. Whoever rebuilt it accomplished something.

I'm done, dude. You're making little to no sense. Later.

I rebuilt a house that wasn't good enough to our current AD because he fired the tenant that built the house (Alford). Correct? Fran has resurrected slightly less than the same product in terms of Wins/losses, that got Alford fired by Barta. Why should I celebrate this? I'd love to hear it.
On second thought, you're right. I'm done too. I don't want to hear that explanation.

 

[JG10Hawk]

 

[Northside Hawk]

There's a difference between saying Iowa should be better or can be better and saying Fran has accomplished nothing. He took over a shit show from Lickliter. It's dangerous to talk in absolutes like saying someone accomplished NOTHING and he's done NOTHING.

Iowa's facilities are just OK when it comes to the Big Ten competition. The support for basketball is not what it is for football, from donors or fans.

Iowa hasn't been what you want consistently since Lute and Raveling. The landscape has changed quite a bit. And Davis was run out of town because he didn't win enough. Where did that get you?

If Fran leaves tomorrow, he at least rebuilt this program up from where it was before he took over. To say he has accomplished NOTHING is asinine.

There is no reason that Iowa basketball can't be Ohio State. That is a football school who's in state talent is pilliaged by Michigan State, Michigan and Indiana and major state powers Cincinnati and Xavier. Yet they had three national championship appearances in the Fred Taylor era, another championship appearance in 2007, another final four 2012, and several conference championships. They have consistent four to six year spurts where they are nationally relevant. And relevent in the conference. They're not a blue blood, their athletic department just demands better than the status quo.

There's no reason why Iowa can't be a similiar program. BTW, wasn't Davis run out of town because he was starting to get a little lax with discipline? I remember the university having to suspend Chris Kingsbury for a game because Davis wouldn't. I remember Davis having little interest in driving the back roads of northeast Iowa to recruit Raef Lafrentz.

 

[ssckelley]

I rebuilt a house that wasn't good enough to our current AD because he fired the tenant that built the house (Alford). Correct? Fran has resurrected slightly less than the same product in terms of Wins/losses, that got Alford fired by Barta. Why should I celebrate this? I'd love to hear it.
On second thought, you're right. I'm done too. I don't want to hear that explanation.

Rebuilding the "house" (basketball program) is still accomplishing something. Iowa basketball was in the crap hole when Lick got canned. Even though Fran has not yet won a conference tournament yet (like Alford did) just getting this team back to the NCAA tournament again was HUGE. Lick left our basketball program on life support, the priest was giving it the last rites, and Fran came along and revived it. It's not where I want it to be either, I want a mini NCAA tournament run as well. I don't want to see anymore repeats of last season.

 

[lightning1]

Rebuilding the "house" (basketball program) is still accomplishing something. Iowa basketball was in the crap hole when Lick got canned. Even though Fran has not yet won a conference tournament yet (like Alford did) just getting this team back to the NCAA tournament again was HUGE. Lick left our basketball program on life support, the priest was giving it the last rites, and Fran came along and revived it. It's not where I want it to be either, I want a mini NCAA tournament run as well. I don't want to see anymore repeats of last season.

Just not "something" to me.

 

[mopkins]

I rebuilt a house that wasn't good enough to our current AD because he fired the tenant that built the house (Alford). Correct? Fran has resurrected slightly less than the same product in terms of Wins/losses, that got Alford fired by Barta. Why should I celebrate this? I'd love to hear it.
On second thought, you're right. I'm done too. I don't want to hear that explanation.

There's a lot wrong with this. For starters Barta didn't fire Alford, Alford fled before the pitchforks got him. Barta also didn't hire Alford. I'm no Barta lover by any stretch, but Barta inherited a dumpster fire of a basketball program. He made a mistake by hiring Lickliter...I understand why he did it and it made a lot of sense at the time...but thats on him. He quickly erased that mistake and hired Fran. In 6 seasons Fran rebuilt the program from the ashes...including top 10 appearances, 3 NCAA appearances, and even NBA draft pick(s).

You don't have to celebrate it, its not legendary status by any means, but to pretend Fran did nothing good for Iowa basketball is not a good take.

 

[ssckelley]

Just not "something" to me.

So leave the damn house burned down to the ground!!!! lol

 

[lightning1]

There's a lot wrong with this. For starters Barta didn't fire Alford, Alford fled before the pitchforks got him. Barta also didn't hire Alford. I'm no Barta lover by any stretch, but Barta inherited a dumpster fire of a basketball program. He made a mistake by hiring Lickliter...I understand why he did it and it made a lot of sense at the time...but thats on him. He quickly erased that mistake and hired Fran. In 6 seasons Fran rebuilt the program from the ashes...including top 10 appearances, 3 NCAA appearances, and even NBA draft pick(s).

You don't have to celebrate it, its not legendary status by any means, but to pretend Fran did nothing good for Iowa basketball is not a good take.

Semantics. Barta gave Alford an ultimatum he knew he couldn't through. Or one his ego wouldn't allow him to accept.
Exactly. Barta inherited a dumpster fire, ran off the reason for that dumpster fire, hired a tanker of gas and thought that would put out the dumpster fire. It only made it worse. He then goes out and hires Fran, who returns the program back to dumpster fire levels. At least from a Win/Loss standpoint. Alfraud Dumpter fire's record has been placed next to Fran's record, on here before. I can do it again, for your benefit. The only difference is that Dumpster fire won 2 BIG Tournament titles and has a slightly better won % in the BIG.

 

[lightning1]

So leave the damn house burned down to the ground!!!! lol

No. Build it better. Build it stronger. I'm not interested in watching a piece of crap get burned to ground and replacing it with another piece of crap. Find someone else for that and you can celebrate crap together.

 

[mopkins]

Semantics. Barta gave Alford an ultimatum he knew he couldn't through. Or one his ego wouldn't allow him to accept.
Exactly. Barta inherited a dumpster fire, ran off the reason for that dumpster fire, hired a tanker of gas and thought that would put out the dumpster fire. It only made it worse. He then goes out and hires Fran, who returns the program back to dumpster fire levels. At least from a Win/Loss standpoint. Alfraud Dumpter fire's record has been placed next to Fran's record, on here before. I can do it again, for your benefit. The only difference is that Dumpster fire won 2 BIG Tournament titles and has a slightly better won % in the BIG.

Nobody ever claimed Fran was a legend or doesn't need to start winning again. you're missing the point Rob was making.

The fact that you even care about Iowa basketball right now is in a way thanks to Fran. That you care enough to post on a basketball forum is thanks in part to Fran.

Nobody gave a F about Iowa basketball after the Pierre Pierce thing until Fran got here

 

[lightning1]

Nobody ever claimed Fran was a legend or doesn't need to start winning again. you're missing the point Rob was making.

The fact that you even care about Iowa basketball right now is in a way thanks to Fran. That you care enough to post on a basketball forum is thanks in part to Fran.

Nobody gave a F about Iowa basketball after the Pierre Pierce thing until Fran got here

Pierre Pierce was kicked off the team in Jan 2005. The U of I claims sell out attendance for 2006. For the 2005 Iowa basketball season, the U of I claims 4.03 million in revenue. By 2010, that revenue plummeted to 1.9 million. The only logical conclusion to be drawn from this is that Gutless Gary was hired in 2006 and had run the program so far in the crapper by 2010, revenue was cut in half. HALF!
https://www.thegazette.com/2011/02/...-and-ticket-sales-rebound-after-all-time-lows
Fran has nothing to do with it. I've been watching Iowa basketball since 1979 and I'll watch it long after Fran has gone. Most Iowa fans feel this way. We are loyal. All any AD has to do is put a coach on the floor with a pulse (weekend at Fran's jokes aside) and Iowa fans tend to show up and watch.

 

[lightning1]

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. The numbers support my opinion. Just because Gutless Gary and Todd Lickliter are so far below average, doesn't mean we should want to hire and retain average Fran. Or celebrate average Fran's results.

 

[mopkins]

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. The numbers support my opinion. Just because Gutless Gary and Todd Lickliter are so far below average, doesn't mean we should want to hire and retain average Fran. Or celebrate average Fran's results.

Again. Nobody is celebrating Fran

 

[WindsorHawk]

He has accomplished nothing worth keeping him as the head coach of Iowa. That's my opinion. A .466 BIG conference win % is somewhere between nothing and mediocre. Asinine is someone that says "we can't have a BIG conference title at Iowa in the future because we haven't had one in the past 40 years. So, we should stop trying and settle for a coach that obviously isn't good enough to accomplish that task." Asinine probably isn't a stong enough word for this person.

Name the guy to replace him. The guy that will accept the job. The guy that won't be another Alford or Lick. And before you do go over to the Illinois board and ask them if they would like to have Bruce Weber back. He wasn't awesome. But he still wins more than he loses at Kansas State. And Illinois has fallen off the face of the map.

 

[N8theGr8]

Pierre Pierce was kicked off the team in Jan 2005. The U of I claims sell out attendance for 2006. For the 2005 Iowa basketball season, the U of I claims 4.03 million in revenue. By 2010, that revenue plummeted to 1.9 million. The only logical conclusion to be drawn from this is that Gutless Gary was hired in 2006 and had run the program so far in the crapper by 2010, revenue was cut in half. HALF!
https://www.thegazette.com/2011/02/...-and-ticket-sales-rebound-after-all-time-lows
Fran has nothing to do with it. I've been watching Iowa basketball since 1979 and I'll watch it long after Fran has gone. Most Iowa fans feel this way. We are loyal. All any AD has to do is put a coach on the floor with a pulse (weekend at Fran's jokes aside) and Iowa fans tend to show up and watch.

This is exactly where Barta failed and Fran's had to dig himself out from. Barta should left himself the ability to pull the plug on Lickliter after it was clear his second season wasn't going to be any better than the first. It could have saved us a full year of fan apathy and teeth gnashing. Fran had a winning and competitive team by his second year so he checked the first box to stay. Then he scored some major recruiting wins in state and got us to the tournament as many times as Alford did with one more win in the NCAA tournament than Alford did check the next box. (Tangent: He also had an NIT runner up in there compared to Alford's first and second round boots from the NIT. Toss out the Big Ten tournaments and Fran is an objectively a better coach than Alford. Especially when you consider that he inherited a solid team with a solid reputation from Tom Davis.) The next boxes to be checked are a sweet 16 and a big ten title, tournament or otherwise. If Fran keeps checking boxes every 2-3 years, I think he gets to stay as long as he wants. If not, he'll be shown the door. But I'm with you on Barta. He's flunked on every test thrown his way.

 

[lightning1]

[

This is exactly where Barta failed and Fran's had to dig himself out from. Barta should left himself the ability to pull the plug on Lickliter after it was clear his second season wasn't going to be any better than the first. It could have saved us a full year of fan apathy and teeth gnashing. Fran had a winning and competitive team by his second year so he checked the first box to stay. Then he scored some major recruiting wins in state and got us to the tournament as many times as Alford did with one more win in the NCAA tournament than Alford did check the next box. (Tangent: He also had an NIT runner up in there compared to Alford's first and second round boots from the NIT. Toss out the Big Ten tournaments and Fran is an objectively a better coach than Alford. Especially when you consider that he inherited a solid team with a solid reputation from Tom Davis.) The next boxes to be checked are a sweet 16 and a big ten title, tournament or otherwise. If Fran keeps checking boxes every 2-3 years, I think he gets to stay as long as he wants. If not, he'll be shown the door. But I'm with you on Barta. He's flunked on every test thrown his way.

Fran is not a better coach than Alford. Alford is bad. Fran is worse. Look at their records and accomplishments.

 

[HawksMN]

Fran's 3rd place finishes were good. After that IDK.....to simply be happy with squeaking in the Dance each year as the ceiling...thats kind of depressing but its all most in here expect with Fran teams.