Howe: Big Dance a Watershed Moment for Hawkeye Program

Some of you guys are assuming Iowa wouldn't pay a buyout if things head south. I wouldn't assume that.

Again, Fran will be and deserves to be the Iowa coach next year. But a quick exit in this tournament and then a failure to make the tournament next season, which would be three out of four years, and things look different.

Heck, Iowa didn't sneeze at paying $6M in the discrimination case. The buyout next year would be $7M.
 
RobHowe said:
Some of you guys are assuming Iowa wouldn't pay a buyout if things head south. I wouldn't assume that.

Again, Fran will be and deserves to be the Iowa coach next year. But a quick exit in this tournament and then a failure to make the tournament next season, which would be three out of four years, and things look different.

Heck, Iowa didn't sneeze at paying $6M in the discrimination case. The buyout next year would be $7M.
Click to expand...
That makes sense if you think they would be willing to pay. Your guess is surely as good as any of ours in that department. I'd suggest Iowa more then sneezed at paying that 6M though. They fought it in court paying lawyers who knows what all along the way to try having not to pay it. Just because they can doesn't mean they want to. Iowa is rolling in cash it's not about being able to at all.

From what I've seen from Barta over the years I'd be pretty surprised if he'd pull the rug from Fran after next yr. If Iowa were to go like 18-13 and miss the dance barely. Similar to what Indiana had for a season this yr. Now if we had a year like last yr and are embarrassingly bad that'd be where the conversation gets interesting. But not if we are mediocre. Doing that would be him admitting giving Fran the recent extention (on the down low with no announcement on it forthcoming) was the wrong thing to do... That'd be the case either way really but it'd be a tougher pill for him to swallow if we are mediocre and not terrible. As much sense as that makes...
 
Whether or not Iowa has the money (they certainly do) and if GB would take all the egg in the face for paying Fran a massive buyout would be two different stories. I think Fran would have to give GB a pretty compelling reason to fire him (maybe another incident).

Considering that it’s unlikely GB will part ways with Fran I’d rather just have a good team these next couple years. Hopefully Iowa can knock off Cincy and next year come back and have a special season as a senior laden team.
 
SCHawkeye2 said:
Translation:
The status quo is mediocre.
A new coach could improve the status quo.
A new coach could be worse than the status quo.
Therefore, accept the status quo of mediocrity.
Click to expand...
I think you missed part of my intent. History shows that the future is more likely to be worse than the status quo when it comes to replacing coaches. It is far from an exact science.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Whether or not Iowa has the money (they certainly do) and if GB would take all the egg in the face for paying Fran a massive buyout would be two different stories. I think Fran would have to give GB a pretty compelling reason to fire him (maybe another incident).

Considering that it’s unlikely GB will part ways with Fran I’d rather just have a good team these next couple years. Hopefully Iowa can knock off Cincy and next year come back and have a special season as a senior laden team.
Click to expand...
If Fran were to be dumb enough (or somehow feel emboldened enough) to go questioning refs in the way he did to get suspended again like that it'd be REALLY interesting to see how Barta would handle that... I mean do you get a 3rd strike at something like that?
 
Perhaps it is worthy of consideration to consider the obvious fact that Mr. Davis made two of his three Sweet Sixteens with the Lads he inherited from George Raveling: Sophomores: Marble, Horton, Armstrong: Junior, Lorenzen, and Seniors, Gamble, Lohaus and Sir Jamelot.....

In obvious contrast, glaring even, we have the crew that Fran inherited from Lick: Matt Gatens, Jarryd Cole, Eric May, and a few other Lads. Unfortunately LittleLick left with his father: LargeLick.....

https://hawkeyesports.com/roster.aspx?roster=98&path=mbball

Mr. Davis had a relatively easier path to recruiting than Fran did. Who wanted to play for the Hawkeyes? They were in a Black Hole and literally nobody wanted to play at Iowa. Aaron White was a diamond in the rough which had the side effect of alerting other programs to start paying attention to those whom Fran was interested in and the cattle rustling began.....

There is such a thing as realistic expectations that exclude the possibility that the Hawkeyes will win the BigTen regular season as long as Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Indiana and Ohio State remain in the conference. Michigan State, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio State have all played for the National Championship recently and are storied programs. Purdue always seems to be in the run for the conference championship. The Hawks might not, in our lifetime, be in that catagory......

By the way, there were only two Iowans on the team that Mr. Davis inherited from Raveling: Bart Casey and the Vanilla Gorilla.....
 
Last edited:
thedukeofearl said:
Perhaps it is worthy of consideration to consider the obvious fact that Mr. Davis made two of his three Sweet Sixteens with the Lads he inherited from George Raveling: Sophomores: Marble, Horton, Armstrong: Junior, Lorenzen, and Seniors, Gamble, Lohaus and Sir Jamelot.....

In obvious contrast, glaring even, we have the crew that Fran inherited from Lick: Matt Gatens, Jarryd Cole, Eric May, and a few other Lads. Unfortunately LittleLick left with his father: LargeLick.....

https://hawkeyesports.com/roster.aspx?roster=98&path=mbball

Mr. Davis had a relatively easier path to recruiting than Fran did. Who wanted to play for the Hawkeyes. They were in a Black Hole and literally nobody wanted to play at Iowa. Aaron White was a diamond in the rough which had the side effect of alerting other programs to start paying attention to those whom Fran was interested in and the cattle rustling began.....

There is such a thing as realistic expectations that exclude the possibility that the Hawkeyes will win the BigTen regular season as long as Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Indiana and Ohio State remain in the conference. Michigan State, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio State have all played for the National Championship recently and are storied programs. Purdue always seems to be in the run for the conference championship. The Hawks might not, in our lifetime, be in that catagory......

By the way, there were only two Iowans on the team that Mr. Davis inherited from Raveling: Bart Casey and the Vanilla Gorilla.....
Click to expand...

I agree, that as things are now, Iowa will not win the Big 10. Some things have got to change, even if it's improving our defense from being dead last in the conference. Is even middle of the pack D too much to ask?

Still, were they not in first place heading into the final month of the season in 2016? Before the meltdown, I mean. I still feel it can be done, regardless of the presence of other good teams in the league.

As for taking over after Lickliter, that was an issue at first no doubt, but almost a decade later, I think the shelf life on that particular excuse has expired.. This is Fran's program now. It's BEEN his program for a while. Year 9 is nearly complete. That's enough time for a recruiting class to come and go, and then the freshmen the year after would also have come and gone (i'm saying 8 years total). If that's not enough time - then how much is?

Fran has taken us as far as he can IMO, unless some changes are made. Status quo will only get us more of the same.
 
sioux34 said:
I think you missed part of my intent. History shows that the future is more likely to be worse than the status quo when it comes to replacing coaches. It is far from an exact science.
Click to expand...
So if we tried to find a dynamic, young, coach, who loved Iowa and who could teach fundamentals to fit the recruiting possibilities of Iowa, we would risk the opportunity to finish the season 1-6?
 
thedukeofearl said:
Perhaps it is worthy of consideration to consider the obvious fact that Mr. Davis made two of his three Sweet Sixteens with the Lads he inherited from George Raveling: Sophomores: Marble, Horton, Armstrong: Junior, Lorenzen, and Seniors, Gamble, Lohaus and Sir Jamelot.....

In obvious contrast, glaring even, we have the crew that Fran inherited from Lick: Matt Gatens, Jarryd Cole, Eric May, and a few other Lads. Unfortunately LittleLick left with his father: LargeLick.....

https://hawkeyesports.com/roster.aspx?roster=98&path=mbball

Mr. Davis had a relatively easier path to recruiting than Fran did. Who wanted to play for the Hawkeyes. They were in a Black Hole and literally nobody wanted to play at Iowa. Aaron White was a diamond in the rough which had the side effect of alerting other programs to start paying attention to those whom Fran was interested in and the cattle rustling began.....

There is such a thing as realistic expectations that exclude the possibility that the Hawkeyes will win the BigTen regular season as long as Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Indiana and Ohio State remain in the conference. Michigan State, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio State have all played for the National Championship recently and are storied programs. Purdue always seems to be in the run for the conference championship. The Hawks might not, in our lifetime, be in that catagory......

By the way, there were only two Iowans on the team that Mr. Davis inherited from Raveling: Bart Casey and the Vanilla Gorilla.....
Click to expand...
Fran already described this year's season as "tremendous." Why would we expect or want more?
 
RobHowe said:
Some of you guys are assuming Iowa wouldn't pay a buyout if things head south. I wouldn't assume that.

Again, Fran will be and deserves to be the Iowa coach next year. But a quick exit in this tournament and then a failure to make the tournament next season, which would be three out of four years, and things look different.

Heck, Iowa didn't sneeze at paying $6M in the discrimination case. The buyout next year would be $7M.
Click to expand...
AD has boxed himself in a corner with Long-Term-Fran. Ride it out till the rodeo is over!
 
Again, I wouldn't assume that Barta wouldn't make a change if Iowa misses the tournament for the third time in four years with a coach that has been at the school for a decade. It's also not his decision alone.
 
RobHowe said:
Again, I wouldn't assume that Barta wouldn't make a change if Iowa misses the tournament for the third time in four years with a coach that has been at the school for a decade. It's also not his decision alone.
Click to expand...

True. Next year looks like a big year for Fran, when you put it that way.

Of course this year isn't finished.. A good tournament run would buy some good will. A first or second round loss doesn't really move the needle. Speaking for myself, anyway.
 
RobHowe said:
It feels like Iowa is at a crossroads:

LINK
Click to expand...

Interesting article but I really think you are asking the wrong question. The question should be: IS IOWA WILLING TO PLAY THE AAU/SHOE CONTRACT CHEATING GAME TO GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL?

Now, let's answer that question. Fran on more than one occasion has publicly talked about the corruption in college basketball going on all around him (he mentioned it last year at a Polk County I Club luncheaon). Millions and millions of dollars are being spent through shoe contracts to influence where the elite players go. The evidence is overwhelming that it happens. Hell, they have Bill Self on tape talking about it. All of the elite programs are doing it now. I have a close friend who attended the Big 12 tournament this year (he is an Iowa State fan). He confronted some "high-roller" Kansas fans about the cheating at KU. Their response was: "Everyone is cheating, no big deal, why aren't you doing it?" The KU fans have accepted it and are not troubled by it!!

Iowa isn't getting the elite players. It is about recruiting inside of (and with the assist of) the AAU/shoe contract spider web; coaching doesn't matter that much. We don't cheat, so we can't recruit the truly elite players. You are right about one thing: This is as good as it is going to get (first or second round NCAA) for one simple reason: Iowa won't cheat! Fran is a great coach. To go 22-11 with that group of players was remarkable, in my humble opinion.

Rob, you should spend less time micro-analyzing Fran and spend a heck of a lot more time talking to people who understand what is happening in college basketball now. Turn over the rock and see the corruption and filth crawling around underneath. That is the story. I think most Iowa fans are clueless, frankly.

Sure, go ahead; fire Fran. Nothing will change with the next coach because Iowa will not cheat. I'm proud of Iowa for not cheating. I'd rather go 22-11 and lose in the first two rounds. Cheating is not acceptable.
 
ChosenChildren said:
Interesting article but I really think you are asking the wrong question. The question should be: IS IOWA WILLING TO PLAY THE AAU/SHOE CONTRACT CHEATING GAME TO GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL?

Now, let's answer that question. Fran on more than one occasion has publicly talked about the corruption in college basketball going on all around him (he mentioned it last year at a Polk County I Club luncheaon). Millions and millions of dollars are being spent through shoe contracts to influence where the elite players go. The evidence is overwhelming that it happens. Hell, they have Bill Self on tape talking about it. All of the elite programs are doing it now. I have a close friend who attended the Big 12 tournament this year (he is an Iowa State fan). He confronted some "high-roller" Kansas fans about the cheating at KU. Their response was: "Everyone is cheating, no big deal, why aren't you doing it?" The KU fans have accepted it and are not troubled by it!!

Iowa isn't getting the elite players. It is about recruiting inside of (and with the assist of) the AAU/shoe contract spider web; coaching doesn't matter that much. We don't cheat, so we can't recruit the truly elite players. You are right about one thing: This is as good as it is going to get (first or second round NCAA) for one simple reason: Iowa won't cheat! Fran is a great coach. To go 22-11 with that group of players was remarkable, in my humble opinion.

Rob, you should spend less time micro-analyzing Fran and spend a heck of a lot more time talking to people who understand what is happening in college basketball now. Turn over the rock and see the corruption and filth crawling around underneath. That is the story. I think most Iowa fans are clueless, frankly.

Sure, go ahead; fire Fran. Nothing will change with the next coach because Iowa will not cheat. I'm proud of Iowa for not cheating. I'd rather go 22-11 and lose in the first two rounds. Cheating is not acceptable.
Click to expand...

Is there cheating on college basketball? Of course.

Is it the only way to have a program that makes the Sweet 16 more than once every 20 years? No.
 
RobHowe said:
Again, I wouldn't assume that Barta wouldn't make a change if Iowa misses the tournament for the third time in four years with a coach that has been at the school for a decade. It's also not his decision alone.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it’s also pretty likely that a super experienced team (even without Cook) makes the tournament next year.

As you noted above GB ain’t going to fire Fran after making the dance 5 out of 7 years. So in that sense we really aren’t at crossroads. Iowa could get hammered by Cincy and come back next year with a 1st round exit as a 9 seed and Fran likely isn’t going anywhere. That’s the simple reality of having an AD that rewards medicority time and time again.

That being the case I’d prefer to just be a good team going forward and not worry about GB, the most inept AD in America.
 
thedukeofearl said:
Perhaps it is worthy of consideration to consider the obvious fact that Mr. Davis made two of his three Sweet Sixteens with the Lads he inherited from George Raveling: Sophomores: Marble, Horton, Armstrong: Junior, Lorenzen, and Seniors, Gamble, Lohaus and Sir Jamelot.....

In obvious contrast, glaring even, we have the crew that Fran inherited from Lick: Matt Gatens, Jarryd Cole, Eric May, and a few other Lads. Unfortunately LittleLick left with his father: LargeLick.....

https://hawkeyesports.com/roster.aspx?roster=98&path=mbball

Mr. Davis had a relatively easier path to recruiting than Fran did. Who wanted to play for the Hawkeyes. They were in a Black Hole and literally nobody wanted to play at Iowa. Aaron White was a diamond in the rough which had the side effect of alerting other programs to start paying attention to those whom Fran was interested in and the cattle rustling began.....

There is such a thing as realistic expectations that exclude the possibility that the Hawkeyes will win the BigTen regular season as long as Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Indiana and Ohio State remain in the conference. Michigan State, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio State have all played for the National Championship recently and are storied programs. Purdue always seems to be in the run for the conference championship. The Hawks might not, in our lifetime, be in that catagory......

By the way, there were only two Iowans on the team that Mr. Davis inherited from Raveling: Bart Casey and the Vanilla Gorilla.....
Click to expand...
Unfortunatly we are where we are in the pecking order of things and yeah we'd need quite the perfect storm of things to happen for us to sneak into the top 4 of the BIG let alone win the thing. Not impossible but nobody with a brain would put the farm on it happening anytime soon.

The reason it's such a longshot for us now more so then in years past is due to the one and done rule amongst others. But the MSUs Michigans etc being able to turn their rosters over in a year ass opposed to 3 or 4 yrs due to marrying yourself with a recruiting class coming in keeps the margin for error for an Iowa sneaking in to the party tougher. Ideally for Iowa to get that good we'd get a pretty good class of recruits 2 yrs in a row and they grow up and out develop their star rating and stay 4 yrs. Woody, MG and Sapps senior yr was about as close to doing that as Fran has been with Uthoff and Jok behind them. And that wasn't good enough. But that's the recipe because unless we start paying stud McDonalds all americans to come in that can make drastic impacts early and often what other way is there?
We swung and missed on Carton and the Oskaloosa kid hasn't decided but who's assuming he'll be a Hawk? I hope he is but even if he is will he be more like Woodbury was for us or is he an Anthony Davisish type?
 
revkev73 said:
So if we tried to find a dynamic, young, coach, who loved Iowa and who could teach fundamentals to fit the recruiting possibilities of Iowa, we would risk the opportunity to finish the season 1-6?
Click to expand...
Here is an example. There have probably been few examples that fit your young and dynamic description of a possible coach than Shaka Smart. How is that working out for Texas? My guess is many here would have killed to land smart four years ago when he left VCU for a big payday. Four years in at a school with very deep pockets and he is .500 overall and .431 in conference with two first round NCAA flame outs. Who saw that coming?
 
ChosenChildren said:
Interesting article but I really think you are asking the wrong question. The question should be: IS IOWA WILLING TO PLAY THE AAU/SHOE CONTRACT CHEATING GAME TO GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL?

Now, let's answer that question. Fran on more than one occasion has publicly talked about the corruption in college basketball going on all around him (he mentioned it last year at a Polk County I Club luncheaon). Millions and millions of dollars are being spent through shoe contracts to influence where the elite players go. The evidence is overwhelming that it happens. Hell, they have Bill Self on tape talking about it. All of the elite programs are doing it now. I have a close friend who attended the Big 12 tournament this year (he is an Iowa State fan). He confronted some "high-roller" Kansas fans about the cheating at KU. Their response was: "Everyone is cheating, no big deal, why aren't you doing it?" The KU fans have accepted it and are not troubled by it!!

Iowa isn't getting the elite players. It is about recruiting inside of (and with the assist of) the AAU/shoe contract spider web; coaching doesn't matter that much. We don't cheat, so we can't recruit the truly elite players. You are right about one thing: This is as good as it is going to get (first or second round NCAA) for one simple reason: Iowa won't cheat! Fran is a great coach. To go 22-11 with that group of players was remarkable, in my humble opinion.

Rob, you should spend less time micro-analyzing Fran and spend a heck of a lot more time talking to people who understand what is happening in college basketball now. Turn over the rock and see the corruption and filth crawling around underneath. That is the story. I think most Iowa fans are clueless, frankly.

Sure, go ahead; fire Fran. Nothing will change with the next coach because Iowa will not cheat. I'm proud of Iowa for not cheating. I'd rather go 22-11 and lose in the first two rounds. Cheating is not acceptable.
Click to expand...
RobHowe said:
Is there cheating on college basketball? Of course.

Is it the only way to have a program that makes the Sweet 16 more than once every 20 years? No.
Click to expand...
Wisconsin went to back to back final fours and 4 consecutive sweet 16s and I’m pretty sure they didn’t cheat. Not everyone is doing it, but it is a huge part of the sport most likely.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Yes, but it’s also pretty likely that a super experienced team (even without Cook) makes the tournament next year.

As you noted above GB ain’t going to fire Fran after making the dance 5 out of 7 years. So in that sense we really aren’t at crossroads. Iowa could get hammered by Cincy and come back next year with a 1st round exit as a 9 seed and Fran likely isn’t going anywhere. That’s the simple reality of having an AD that rewards medicority time and time again.

That being the case I’d prefer to just be a good team going forward and not worry about GB, the most inept AD in America.
Click to expand...

I guess I wouldn't classify the chances of making the tournament next year as "pretty likely."

Iowa is a 10 seed this year and it's college basketball where transfers flow like water. I wouldn't assume that the only losses will be Baer and possibly Cook. I really wouldn't assume that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top