Howe: As the Hawkeye World Turns...

[NikeHawk21]

Interesting find on those points per minute stat. I would not have thought that was the case but then again Moss doesn't play a lot of minutes and JB does and so did Gatens.

I think the question I have is why didn't he play more? As a P6 basketball coach you would think that Fran would realize that a guy who scores as much as as Moss does and is numbers-wise a good perimeter defender among his teammates would be on the floor so little.

I mean Moss was no question inconsistent at times so that was part of it. At the end of games Fran often elected to have Connor out there for another ball handler, which isn’t a bad idea. Put another way, if JBo was a great ball handling PG who could handle that burden for the entire game Moss probably would have seen more minutes, which isn’t really Moss’s fault. As a basketball player he’s better than McCaffery, but Iowa just didn’t have much in terms of PG options to handle it.

 

[InGoodCo]

Here’s the thing, I’m not arguing or trying to convince you to agree with me about the state of the program, I’m trying to correct you because you keep saying it’s all about Moss, putting words in my mouth as you often do.

The second problem is in each post you keep making a stupid statement about Moss that I feel obligated to correct. For example here you say “you have to try hard to have that many minutes and not score 1,000 points” to try to refute my argument about Moss having a higher points per minute than Bohannon. Is that a troll or is that serious? Are you that bad at math?? If Moss has a higher points per minute than Bohannon over each of the last three years that would mean if Bohannon played Moss minutes he too wouldn’t be in the 1,000 point club. Does that mean Bohannon isn’t a good scorer either? Again I’m not making the argument that Moss is a better offensive player or even scorer for that matter, just telling you that this 1,000 point hill is a stupid argument. Isaiah Moss has a higher career points per minute than Matt Gatens for example. As a scorer, he’s pretty solid.

So again I don’t care to refute your opinion on the state of the program, just telling you that mine isn’t only about Moss regardless of if you keep saying it is.

God grief Nike, I addressed your other issues of concern, I didn't gloss over them, I am making a point. It has to be about Moss more than you are letting on, because the other concerns don't make sense to wring your hands about yet. I am not trying to fight with you, and I am definitely not trying to take shots at your math, spelling or calling you a story fabricator. Can we just debate without all that crap?

question 1.

Do you think it's too early to hang Fran for the 2020 class?

question 2.

Do you think it's too early to hang Fran on his assistant hire yet?

question 3.

Do you think it's fair to hang Fran for not getting the 3 most high profile transfers in the country who weren't even on his radar a month ago?

question 4.
Do you hang Fran for Cook leaving early, even though he was always leaving early?

If your answer to those 4 questions is generally "no" then I can say that this is all about Moss with you. See?

 

[RobHowe]

With Moss, I didn't have a problem with Fran starting him and then sitting him if he wasn't effective as a freshman and sophomore. There were times when he just looked lost mentally.

I thought he was more consistent this season and he was benched at times even when he was playing well.

 

[InGoodCo]

With Moss, I didn't have a problem with Fran starting him and then sitting him if he wasn't effective as a freshman and sophomore. There were times when he just looked lost mentally.

I thought he was more consistent this season and he was benched at times even when he was playing well.

I kind of agree with that. While I don't think he was a big difference maker in his time at Iowa, I think that his best basketball was still in front of him. I thought he really came on at moments this year and I think it's a big loss for the program in the immediate terms. I kind of feel for Fran a little, in regards that he downloaded a lot of data, a lot of training and a lot of investment into his development and was rewarded with a transfer in what was likely to be the pay off season. Moss leaving is bad, no other way to look at it IMO. That said, in his time here, he did not really separate himself to being anything special and he had an abundant amount of opportunity. It's a loss, it's definitely not good, but it's not a HUGE loss, they are going to be ok still I think - that's how I view it at least.

 

[InGoodCo]

Let me say this, Moss was my favorite player. He just was. I've told my Hawkeye buddies that since his RS frosh year. I just always saw the potential there and I think he had a sweet stroke. I loved IM. I really did, but that's because I day dreamed of potential more than what I got on the court. He flashed, he couldn't do it with consistency. I wish him the best, but his departure from Iowa doesn't really make me think Iowa is suddenly pointing the wrong way. It's a loss, combine it with Cook, Baer and Dailey, it's a lot. It's not been a great off season, but I still think Iowa is "ok" - bad news and breaks is part of sports, how you overcome that is part of the journey and I am not smart enough to definitively state how things will pan out long term.

 

[Robowe]

Keep this in mind ... this is what happens when you don't sign your own kid to play for you. The kid bat flips you!

 

[RobHowe]

That's the thing. Iowa is a developmental program *ducks*. It hurts badly to lose a guy like Moss, who would be a fifth-year senior with 96 starts under his belt. Ditto with Cook, although he was leaving after this season no matter what. We watched Moss get better and he hopefully would have been even more improved this coming season.

I like the potential of guys like Toussaint and Fredrick. But to think they will give what Moss would have given next season is not logical. I don't believe either one of them or P-Mac is more prepared than was Wieskamp last season. And Joe was inconsistent. I think that's what we're looking at with those three guys this season.

I'm talking about that trio in regards to Moss because that's the group playing the 1-3 that wasn't playing last year. Nunge is a 4.

 

[NikeHawk21]

God grief Nike, I addressed your other issues of concern, I didn't gloss over them, I am making a point. It has to be about Moss more than you are letting on, because the other concerns don't make sense to wring your hands about yet. I am not trying to fight with you, and I am definitely not trying to take shots at your math, spelling or calling you a story fabricator. Can we just debate without all that crap?

question 1.

Do you think it's too early to hang Fran for the 2020 class?

question 2.

Do you think it's too early to hang Fran on his assistant hire yet?

question 3.

Do you think it's fair to hang Fran for not getting the 3 most high profile transfers in the country who weren't even on his radar a month ago?

question 4.
Do you hang Fran for Cook leaving early, even though he was always leaving early?

If your answer to those 4 questions is generally "no" then I can say that this is all about Moss with you. See?

1. Yes too early to say on the 2020 class, but as I said what I’m seeing right now it doesn’t look ideal. My outlook for next season is down, which won’t help here (that is partially Moss related)

2. I think Eldridge will do a fine job and is deserving, I just think it was a good opportunity to get some fresh blood into the program. To your earlier point, while it hasn’t been announced it sounds like from most in the know it’s all but a formality at this point, he’s been out on the recruiting trail for the 2020 class.

3. I don’t give a rip about the Hauser’s they were never realistic. We lost Harvey to Vandy a team that went 0-18 in SEC play this year. I understand the NBA draw of Stackhouse, but at some point you have to win these recruiting battles.

4. Cook was going. I’m excited for Nunge.

It’s funny because we aren’t that far off in opinion, you just tried to strengthen your argument by saying I’m selling doom and gloom like I did last offseason (not true), and saying it was only about Moss. Moss is a big part of it for sure because next year now looks a little dicey to me, but there are other factors at play.

 

[InGoodCo]

1. Yes too early to say on the 2020 class, but as I said what I’m seeing right now it doesn’t look ideal. My outlook for next season is down, which won’t help here (that is partially Moss related)

2. I think Eldridge will do a fine job and is deserving, I just think it was a good opportunity to get some fresh blood into the program. To your earlier point, while it hasn’t been announced it sounds like from most in the know it’s all but a formality at this point, he’s been out on the recruiting trail for the 2020 class.

3. I don’t give a rip about the Hauser’s they were never realistic. We lost Harvey to Vandy a team that went 0-18 in SEC play this year. I understand the NBA draw of Stackhouse, but at some point you have to win these recruiting battles.

4. Cook was going. I’m excited for Nunge.

It’s funny because we aren’t that far off in opinion, you just tried to strengthen your argument by saying I’m selling doom and gloom like I did last offseason (not true), and saying it was only about Moss. Moss is a big part of it for sure because next year now looks a little dicey to me, but there are other factors at play.

Fair enough, and you’re right we aren’t far apart. I’m not sure on Eldridge. He did the same thing last year when I think Speraw wife was ill. There was only a couple of weeks before the evaluation period and that’s not a lot time to make a hire like that. I think the job has to be posted for a certain amount of time too.

 

[HawkGold]

Moss to Illinois?

 

[hawkdrummer1]

That's the thing. Iowa is a developmental program *ducks*. It hurts badly to lose a guy like Moss, who would be a fifth-year senior with 96 starts under his belt. Ditto with Cook, although he was leaving after this season no matter what. We watched Moss get better and he hopefully would have been even more improved this coming season.

I like the potential of guys like Toussaint and Fredrick. But to think they will give what Moss would have given next season is not logical. I don't believe either one of them or P-Mac is more prepared than was Wieskamp last season. And Joe was inconsistent. I think that's what we're looking at with those three guys this season.

I'm talking about that trio in regards to Moss because that's the group playing the 1-3 that wasn't playing last year. Nunge is a 4.

I don't think the developmental program angle works so well for basketball. (I assume there was some humor in there) With only 12 scholarship players and 5 on the floor at all times you have to play 60-80% of your roster. No luxury of having a bunch of guys in development mode for a couple of years.