I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I only have so much to work with between Barney Stinson swinging his finger around his head and "He'd probably have about the same record as Alabama had the 10 seasons prior to Saban arriving." What I get from your responses is that you believe Ferentz would not only be unable to increase his average regular season win total by coaching at a blue blood program, but it would actually decrease from 6.8 wins (at Iowa) to 6.5 wins (Alabama's average wins per season 10 years pre-Saban)? If I'm wrong about your point of view, feel free to correct me because I find that logic a bit confusing.
How Successful Would Ferentz be at a Alabama or Ohio State?
- Thread starter MelroseHawkins
- Start date
I get all that but KF never coached at that level. And never coached at an OSU either that's the whole premise of this question.
There's no changing his mind. It's why I decided not to engage. My take on it is winning isn't the end all be all of being a good coach. I think that's the whole point of the OPs question here. If I was coaching that OSU program during that era and played against an ISU team coached by Tressel I'd have a good winning percentage against him too. I can't sit here and just match wins and losses against coaches to compare. Way more to it than that.
Seth53
Well-Known Member
So let's flip this.
What if Urban or Darth-Saban came to Iowa and had to coach under the Iowa conditions (less 5* recruits, not a blue blood program, developmental program, etc).
How would they fare? Better than KF has over 20 years?
My gut tells me they would have probably done better but certainly no where near what they do at OSU/Alabama respectively.
What if Urban or Darth-Saban came to Iowa and had to coach under the Iowa conditions (less 5* recruits, not a blue blood program, developmental program, etc).
How would they fare? Better than KF has over 20 years?
My gut tells me they would have probably done better but certainly no where near what they do at OSU/Alabama respectively.
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
Kirk is as conservative at Tressel was, sans the vest. And he seems like he's almost a brother from another mother with Saban as crusty as they can be at times. It's an unknown because he'd have to recruit at the same level as those guys did/do and would the name of the universities bring in better recruits than he gets now?
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Do folks think Mark Dantonio (100-45 record at Michigan State) would be better than Nick Saban (34-24-1 at MSU) at Alabama?
Interesting question. Here's another question: Would Mark Dantonio (100-45 record at Michigan State - .690 winning percentage) be more successful than Nick Saban (34-24-1 at MSU - .585 winning percentage) if he coached at Alabama (or another blue blood)?
Interesting question. Here's another question: Would Mark Dantonio (100-45 record at Michigan State - .690 winning percentage) be more successful than Nick Saban (34-24-1 at MSU - .585 winning percentage) if he coached at Alabama (or another blue blood)?
BigD
Well-Known Member
Excellent point. Some seem to forget what the Alabama’s and USC’s were like for a long, long time. I smell a strong scent of booster corruption in both of those programs. Saban now has it rolling on reputation but I would guess that his program at Alabama got a little BOOST the first few years.
BigD
Well-Known Member
Penn State is learning this in spades now that Paterno (Kirk’s twin brother) is out of the way. I remember a game where PSU was down by over 21 points early in the first half and Ole Joe opened up his offense and BOOM, BOOM, BOOM he tied it right up and then crawled into his conservative man hole and it was nip and tuck the rest of the game.
We have seen Kirk do this a few times when a team has jumped out in front of him by three scores. Three wide receivers and one running back in the backfield. Why can’t he just attack that way all the time.
The year we won the Capital One Bowl against LSU was one of the funnest teams to watch. “AIRBG” had taken out all of our backfield so Kirk had to throw the ball to move the sticks.................. and thrown it we did. Won the last eight games of the season counting the Capital One game.
Why not make the game entertaining. At this point in his career Kirk is untouchable. So let your hair down coach and open it up and let the boyz play.
JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
This is exactly why I started that thread about the Capital One bowl. If the linebackers can at least be competent we have the potential for a very strong defense. That team could have been in contention for the national title (call me crazy) if the offense had been less conservative thereby giving the defense time to rest. I’m hoping against hope that Kirk realizes this, and tries to put Brian in the best position possible by letting him open the offense and look like he knows what he’s doing. There are some people here that would probably like to see Brian crash and burn on the off chance that that will stop him from getting the job (fat chance) but the pieces are there. Some weeks he was spot on (Iowa State, OSU) and some he was not even close to the target. I really think he has the ability and will take a major step forward, and I want to believe that Kirk will let that happen.
hawkeyes87
Well-Known Member
This is the key.
"Kirk is", "Tressel was"
Tressel's last year at OSU was 2010, which is about the last time you could say that KF's conservatism was capable of producing consistent top-25 teams.
The game has changed. There's a lot more scoring now. Focusing your offense on not turning the ball over doesn't cut it.
Ask yourself this: if Kirk had any of the rosters from last year's cfp, does he run the same offenses those teams did? Seems unlikely. So then the question is, do those same rosters do as well playing Kirk ball? None of those games ended up 10-7 scores... And going forward, would those same teams continue to get the 4 and 5 star talent playing that style?
JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
None of this Big 12 propaganda.
But yeah, focusing on not turning over the ball is the biggest thing Kirk needs to get over.
I think you have it backwards. Teams don't usually play different when they are behind by a bunch, but rather the opponent plays softer when they have a big lead.This is true in almost every sport. In football for example, defenses will play softer coverage if they are up by three touchdowns. They are willing to give up the ten yard passes, but not fifty yard touchdown bombs.All of a sudden the offense is moving the ball down the field with ease when they had been struggling. Its not that the coaches "opened up the offense", its just that the defense eased up.
I think it's an interesting point that you bring up. Saban was at Michigan State for 4 seasons with the breakout season occurring in his last season. Saban also took the program over after it had some minor sanctions imposed on it. Dantonio was 33-19 in his first 4 seasons at Michigan State with the breakout season occurring in his 4th season as well. It's also worth noting that Dantonio coached under Saban at Michigan State so Dantonio got to see 1st hand what it took to build Michigan State into a promising program.
It's just my opinion, but Dantonio wouldn't be able to recreate Saban's results at Alabama, but else nobody could either. Alabama is on a decade long string of dominance that is unprecedented in modern college football. Regardless of what anyone thinks of him personally, Dantonio is a damn fine coach though. We could go over whether Person X fits the culture at School Y and how that can factor into success, but I'd always lean towards a good coach doing well at big time programs. I think Dantonio would be very successful at a place like Alabama or Ohio State. Likewise, I think Ferentz would be successful at those types of programs as well. Would he be successful as the guys that are currently at those schools? I don't know for sure, but I lean towards no.
Another post asked would guys like Saban and Meyer be more successful than Ferentz at Iowa? I think yes because we are talking about two of he all time great coaches who have been successful at multiple stops. I don't think they would be dramatically better though. Maybe Iowa has a couple of conference championships if those two guys coached at Iowa for a couple of decades, but I wouldn't bet on them winning a National Championship if those guys were here. I think guys like Saban and Meyer even know that. That is why they end up at Ohio State and Alabama adding onto legacies at established powers as opposed to trying engineer smaller programs into blue blood programs. Look at the list of National Champions over the past 30 years. The only names that appear that don't have blue blood history are Clemson, Georgia Tech, LSU, and Colorado. Clemson and LSU have been historically successful and have grown into a big time powers and Georgia Tech has been historically successful and could grow into a big time power with the right guy.
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This is something that people don't quite understand. A perfect example of this would have been a few years back with Blake Bortles in the NFL. The guy throws for over 4,400 yards and 35 TD's which on the surface looks great, but there are a ton of empty calories in those stats.
Another example is the Iowa basketball team this past year. They were statistically good offensively, but that was partly due to the fact that they were often down double digits and teams let up a little bit defensively against them.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Oh boy! Don't stir up that hornet's nest again.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Yeah, at that bastion of integrity, Youngstown State.
rschneider
Well-Known Member
So what about Ferentz at Stanford, USC or Notre Dame?
NoBeer
Well-Known Member
I think this is a legitimate question. All you people pointing out Jim Tressel's winning percentage are badly missing the point. Are you saying Tressel could have won a NC at Iowa? I don't necessarily think so. Part of the reason Tressel's winning percentage was so good is BECAUSE he was at OSU.
