How close was Terry Allen to becoming Hayden's successor?

[nationalchamps]

This all went down almost 15 years ago.

 

[tubahawk]

This is how I was told it went down and I have no reason to believe otherwise. As it relates to search committees, I can only hope that whenever Ferentz retires that the UI doesn't make this decision again. In this world of 24 hour news/sports, technology, etc, an AD can't afford to be hamstrung by a lengthy, bureaucratic process once his man has been targeted. For the amount of money ADs are paid these days, they should be trusted with the responsibility to make the hire they see as the best for the University. If they fail, then fire them and bring in someone who can do better.

I would have to disagree. This "bureaucratic" process likely saved Iowa from a bad hire (Allen). I don't think the hiring of a prominent position like a head coach should be made by a single individual. There should be a process to assist with the selection, for the exact reasons that were mentioned to have occurred during the last hire.

 

[SpiderRico]

I would have to disagree. This "bureaucratic" process likely saved Iowa from a bad hire (Allen). I don't think the hiring of a prominent position like a head coach should be made by a single individual. There should be a process to assist with the selection, for the exact reasons that were mentioned to have occurred during the last hire.

I completely understand what you're saying, but I disagree. For every one time a selection committee saves an athletic program from a bad hire, they prevent untold numbers of very qualified candidates from being hired because of the drawn out process.

And to the post above talking about Terry Allen, once again, there is no way that the selection committee was going to hire Terry Allen. Not in a million years. Unfortunately, they weren't going to hire Stoops either until the final interview (Ferentz) was done.

So yes, they saved us from TA, but they also were responsible for losing Stoops.

 

[cecilB]

YES. I am flattered you kept this.

Within the last couple of years this subject came up on this board. A poster who goes by cecil (not sure if he is still around) recounted what happened. I had seen posts on Rivals (copied below) years ago by him describing the events and his account years later on this site corroborated all the same info. He had intimate knowledge of what went down - at the highest level. And it went like this:

[FONT=&amp] A few of the facts are these:[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Had Bobby Elliott not gotten sick, he would have been the head coach at the University of Iowa. He was very popular with the fan base at the time. Terry Allen most definitely WAS Bowlsby's favorite candidate. Marv Cook is virtually solely responsible for saving Iowa from that catastrophe. Stoops most definitely would have taken the Iowa job. Why even interview when he was already offered the OU post? Ferentz was unknown by virtually everyone, including Bowlsby (remember, KF left Hayden's staff before Bob became the Iowa AD). At the time of the hire, KF was the default choice do to losing Stoops, Elliot's illness, the internal revolt over Terry Allen, and the uninspiring candidacies of Don Patterson and Chuck Long. To sum up, it is a legitimate miracle that things ultimately turned out the way that they did.[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]The anti-Allen phone calls, faxes and emails overwhelmed the AD office, the UIF office and the President's office -- because insiders saw what BB was doing. Terry Allen had a PC in Lawrence scheduled the afternoon Ferentz was being interviewed. Bowlsby had to make the call following the Ferentz interview and tell him there was a change of plans. The PC in Lawrence became an 'I'm a Jayhawk' PC (he was fired the next year).

Bowlsby was catching a lot of heat over Stoops. Two candidates were ceremonial ones. Ferentz who was encouraged to apply from Bill Dervich and Greg Morris blew the committee's socks off. Even then, thank Marv Cook, and yes, Ann Rhodes for averting disaster. The much maligned search committee saved Iowa football from Bowlsby and the sewer. Bowlsby looked like a dead man at Ferentz's introductory reception at the UIF the night he arrived in IC. Yes, I was there.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Yes, Terry Allen was indeed interviewed... the Friday after Thanksgiving to be specific.

FWIW the Wednesday before TG was Chuck Long, Friday after Allen, Saturday was Patterson, Monday was Stoops, Tuesday was Ferentz. And to the other person...Hayden Fry was not on the search committee.[/FONT]

 

[IowaFan81]

I completely understand what you're saying, but I disagree. For every one time a selection committee saves an athletic program from a bad hire, they prevent untold numbers of very qualified candidates from being hired because of the drawn out process.

And to the post above talking about Terry Allen, once again, there is no way that the selection committee was going to hire Terry Allen. Not in a million years. Unfortunately, they weren't going to hire Stoops either until the final interview (Ferentz) was done.

So yes, they saved us from TA, but they also were responsible for losing Stoops.

No proof Stoops would have been a good hire even with his success at Oklahoma. So can't say they are responsible for losing him, he could have been a bust and Terry Allen could have been a hit. I'll take reality (good or bad) over what if's any day.

 

[joshhawk]

I remember seeing Oklahoma had hired Stoops on an ESPN ticker and was in total shock. I think a lot of us thought this we already had Bob. Then after they introduced Ferentz I thought for sure we would be doing this all over again in a few years no way was he gonna amount to anything. Funny how things turned out.

 

[taffaej]

Who cares he would have been gone long ago, and we would be sitting in a much bigger hole. The true hawk fans didn't want him. Bowlsby got that message loud and clear, but he also screwed up getting the guy everyone wanted.

 

[FreedComanche]

Within the last couple of years this subject came up on this board. A poster who goes by cecil (not sure if he is still around) recounted what happened. I had seen posts on Rivals (copied below) years ago by him describing the events and his account years later on this site corroborated all the same info. He had intimate knowledge of what went down - at the highest level. And it went like this:

[FONT=&amp] A few of the facts are these:[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Had Bobby Elliott not gotten sick, he would have been the head coach at the University of Iowa. He was very popular with the fan base at the time. Terry Allen most definitely WAS Bowlsby's favorite candidate. Marv Cook is virtually solely responsible for saving Iowa from that catastrophe. Stoops most definitely would have taken the Iowa job. Why even interview when he was already offered the OU post? Ferentz was unknown by virtually everyone, including Bowlsby (remember, KF left Hayden's staff before Bob became the Iowa AD). At the time of the hire, KF was the default choice do to losing Stoops, Elliot's illness, the internal revolt over Terry Allen, and the uninspiring candidacies of Don Patterson and Chuck Long. To sum up, it is a legitimate miracle that things ultimately turned out the way that they did.[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]The anti-Allen phone calls, faxes and emails overwhelmed the AD office, the UIF office and the President's office -- because insiders saw what BB was doing. Terry Allen had a PC in Lawrence scheduled the afternoon Ferentz was being interviewed. Bowlsby had to make the call following the Ferentz interview and tell him there was a change of plans. The PC in Lawrence became an 'I'm a Jayhawk' PC (he was fired the next year).

Bowlsby was catching a lot of heat over Stoops. Two candidates were ceremonial ones. Ferentz who was encouraged to apply from Bill Dervich and Greg Morris blew the committee's socks off. Even then, thank Marv Cook, and yes, Ann Rhodes for averting disaster. The much maligned search committee saved Iowa football from Bowlsby and the sewer. Bowlsby looked like a dead man at Ferentz's introductory reception at the UIF the night he arrived in IC. Yes, I was there.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Yes, Terry Allen was indeed interviewed... the Friday after Thanksgiving to be specific.

FWIW the Wednesday before TG was Chuck Long, Friday after Allen, Saturday was Patterson, Monday was Stoops, Tuesday was Ferentz. And to the other person...Hayden Fry was not on the search committee.[/FONT]

Good read. Thanks for that.

FreedComanche

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Spider & PJ mirror what I know almost to a T. I'm one of us that's old enough and lived in and around IC long enough to know some folks pretty connected. I also grew up with someone who worked for years in an admin capacity in the athletic department. She confirmed it all while tailgating one Saturday a few years into KFz's tenure. And yes, there was a major sh** storm that hit Bowlsby's office when it become apparent that he was intent on hiring Allen.

I will add this. While it may be true that the committee "saved us" from Allen. It's also true that they prevented us from getting Stoops. We'll never know how he would have done. But it's undeniable that he was the perfect fit. The only family name as closely tied to Iowa football as Stoops...is Hilgenberg

 

[JonDMiller]

IIRC, big time donors had to put a stop to Bowlsby hiring Allen. It was close.

This is somewhat true in that Bowlsby really was fond of Allen. But I don't think he ever had a real shot at the job.

It is also true that there were certain hiring committee members who wanted Stoops hired ASAP, no need to move on to other candidates. But Iowa was so married to stupid protocols, and also telling Bobby that they had a few more interviews to conduct that they had committed to....Bobby told them he had to know pretty much immediately, because Oklahoma wanted to hire him. Iowa basically told him he had to do what he had to do.

I don't think that was necc. a Bowlsby decision, rather an Iowa procedural position, which is not surprising in the least given all the bureaucratic BS that takes place in Iowa City.

But I think guys like Marv Cook and Dan Gable were none too thrilled about the legalism of the process.

While I am not going to tell you specifically, I heard all of this from two people who were involved in the process and were a part of the committee. I was told this in 2001, at the Wig and Pen, over a few cold ones and was shocked that one of the people was telling me what he told me. It was also at this time when he told me about how Mr. Davis had come to Iowa officials and said he wanted to retire after the 1998 season...this was a year or so before it began...and the Iowa officials then started the process for that...then TD changed his mind at some point (I can't recall when) and Iowa did not change its mind. That's when things 'leaked' that Iowa was 'forcing him out' and people like Vitale went on a crusade.

ADDITION: I Just read through some other posts in this thread and there are a couple of them that add more detail and color and I don't think I'd argue with them. I just don't know how close the Terry Allen thing was to happening as some feel, because the committee process would not allow something like that. But I know Marv help but the stop to Allen momentum.

 

[JonDMiller]

Also, if some of you were around superhawkeye.com back then, when Iowa hired Ferentz, things got so bad on the message boards that I had to create a Bowlsby/Stoops board specifically for people losing their minds on this topic.

I got so fed up with that stuff that I just decided to throw in totally behind Ferentz for no other reason that I was sick and tired of the complainers and whiners.

 

[OO44]

1. The search committee was a farce-It was Bob Bowlsby's decision.
2. He was going to hire Terry Allen.
3. Ann Rhodes and Mary Sue Coleman intervened and blocked that move. The President's office, home and the UI Foundation received numerous obnoxious phone calls with the foulest of language being the norm.

 

[WiscoHawk1]

I knew TA, TA was a friend of mine, he is a kind, decent guy, that of you would enjoy a golf game with, or , a beer, or dinner. He was best friends with Eldon Miller who everyone thinks is a great guy. TA loved the Hawks ,loved Iowa City, and loved Iowa. I think the board should be thrilled that a guy like that wanted to be the coach at Iowa. I have never understood why the board doesn't seem to like him and every so often brings this up. Ta's career probably hasn't been all he once hoped, but to indicate that he would have been a total failure calls for pure speculation by the witness. What if his buddy BB had given him the keys to the kingdom to hire assistants and build new facilities. And the board loves to trash BB who by almost any measure has had a stellar career. So I called so I called a person with exact knowledge. BB told TA right from the start he wouldn't be the coach at Iowa. BB gave his friend a boost in the football world by interviewing him and I think it got him a raise. BB told TA right from the start that he could be considered the next time around if he did well at Kansas. BB and TA were basically winking at each other through the process. This person says that TA was never a serious consideration and there was never any behind the scenes talks between BB and TA that would have ever suggested otherwise. Facts can be troublesome things and I'd be happy to PM Jon Miller the sources which he would quickly confirm as accurate. Finally to bash TA, you must not know him. Whether he would have been a good coach at Iowa is just speculation

 

[Ozhawk]

There are people on this board and others that know very distinct details of the KF hiring process, including the close calls with Allen and Stoops. Fascinating if you ask me.

IIRC, big time donors had to put a stop to Bowlsby hiring Allen. It was close.

Bill (Krause) seemed a bit jumpy that day. It was awhile ago but but as we sat there in the meeting room (remember this was in the old football complex) Hayden walked in and said "perk up boys y'all look hotter n' a hen on a hot rock." " I aint too Whopper Jawed about this Allen Feller, Bill (krause) whats pickin yer noggin?"

As Bob (bowlsby) fidgeted in his seat Bill Stood and said. "Boys, weve seen a few Coaches Kum n Go around here, but I just as soon not see Terry Allen here.

Just then a call was recieved that Kirk was in town and Hayden just went bananas. The decision was Made and Hayden just jumped up and down hootin and hollerin and said, " woo boys, you just bought yourselves a 5 gallon bucket of whoopa$$ hiring my boy kirk".

Don't quote me on any of this my memory is a bit fuzzy and I generally just sit quiet in these meetings.

 

[gordonearl]

If I remember right Spurrier had made comments about Stoops going to Iowa.

 

[LASBUR]

This is a great thread, Thanks everyone

 

[Section136]

I knew TA, TA was a friend of mine, he is a kind, decent guy, that of you would enjoy a golf game with, or , a beer, or dinner. He was best friends with Eldon Miller who everyone thinks is a great guy. TA loved the Hawks ,loved Iowa City, and loved Iowa. I think the board should be thrilled that a guy like that wanted to be the coach at Iowa. I have never understood why the board doesn't seem to like him and every so often brings this up. Ta's career probably hasn't been all he once hoped, but to indicate that he would have been a total failure calls for pure speculation by the witness. What if his buddy BB had given him the keys to the kingdom to hire assistants and build new facilities. And the board loves to trash BB who by almost any measure has had a stellar career. So I called so I called a person with exact knowledge. BB told TA right from the start he wouldn't be the coach at Iowa. BB gave his friend a boost in the football world by interviewing him and I think it got him a raise. BB told TA right from the start that he could be considered the next time around if he did well at Kansas. BB and TA were basically winking at each other through the process. This person says that TA was never a serious consideration and there was never any behind the scenes talks between BB and TA that would have ever suggested otherwise. Facts can be troublesome things and I'd be happy to PM Jon Miller the sources which he would quickly confirm as accurate. Finally to bash TA, you must not know him. Whether he would have been a good coach at Iowa is just speculation

Nobody is saying Allen isnt a good guy. We are just saying we are pretty thrilled that he didnt become the head football coach at Iowa.

 

[PJHawk]

Also, if some of you were around superhawkeye.com back then, when Iowa hired Ferentz, things got so bad on the message boards that I had to create a Bowlsby/Stoops board specifically for people losing their minds on this topic.

I got so fed up with that stuff that I just decided to throw in totally behind Ferentz for no other reason that I was sick and tired of the complainers and whiners.

I was there for that Jon. I've never seen an off topic/politics/religious message board dialogue with as much animosity as that board. When Stoops was putting together a NC run that season and Ferentz was losing every game that board went white hot.

 

[You]

Buyer's remorse from 1998? Sheesh.

I think the real question is, who should be the next head coach?

 

[joshhawk]

I went to a lot of UNI games when Allen was the coach I always thought his teams were a lot of fun to watch and seemed well coached. I think he found out just how little Kansas cared about football not long after getting there and was never able to get things rolling.