Hoops Numbers Before the Storm

redhawk55 said:
refresh my memory, just who did Michigan lose off of last seasons BT 3 way tie championship team?
as I recall MSU'S recriuting class was 9th, Indiana's was 11th and Michigan's class was 14th and Towa's was 25th by ESPN,
so I don't un derstand how people just automatically jus think I ndiana is going to just walk over teams and claim the BT Title
Michigan recruits 18th best RobinsonIII SF
24TH best McGary pf/c
76th best Stauskas SF
and as we are seing 3 of that 25th rated class are starting with the lowest rated recruit in Clemmons at
2* 72nd best PG, but the #1 PG and 3rd best in the state of Michigan by the Michigan people
another kid Fran found nthat is making ranking people look stupid, all because of not getting the right offers,
just like White
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Red, no one is claiming Indiana will walk all over anyone. But you have to realize that Indiana and Michigan aren't leaning on 3 true freshman in their starting lineups. Iowa has young talent but they are going to make mistakes. The fact is Indiana and Michigan are more talented and experienced than Iowa from the top to the bottom.

Can Iowa beat them, sure, why not. But will they, that is extremely difficult to justify in my mind. But there is a huge different between CAN and WILL. There was a reason that Indiana was the #1 team for almost 2 whole months and Iowa wasn't even in the top 25.

Don't play this crap about recruiting classes either Indiana is always ahead of Iowa, 1 top 25 class isn't going to put Iowa over the edge. Plus anyone that brings up about how they lost to Butler, it is just sad. Because basketball is different than football, you have more games so in turn more of a chance to lose to a lesser team, one lose isn't as telling in basketball as it is in football. As I said though Indiana is a more talented and experienced them, they will most likely bounce back from a loss and hold their own better than Iowa will.
 
redhawk55 said:
refresh my memory, just who did Michigan lose off of last seasons BT 3 way tie championship team?
as I recall MSU'S recruiting class was 9th, Indiana's was 11th and Michigan's class was 14th and Iowa's was 25th by ESPN,
so I don't understand how people just automatically just think Indiana is going to just walk over teams and claim the BT Title
Michigan recruits 18th best RobinsonIII SF
27TH best McGary pf/c
76th best Stauskas SF
and as we are seeing 3 of that 25th rated class are starting with the lowest rated recruit in Clemmons at
2* 72nd best PG, but the #1 PG and 3rd best in the state of Michigan by the Michigan people
another kid Fran found that is making ranking people look stupid, all because of not getting the right offers,
just like White
Click to expand...

Talk about talking out both sides of your mouth. Here you talk about how ranking people don't know what they are doing because of white and clemmons. Yet in football you talk about iowa's recruiting of higher star players being better than ever so our team is going to be great. Which is it does ranking matter or not?

This just shows how pointless recruiting sites are because they are subjective. Fran will recruit guys that fit his style and to him the #20 at a position may be better than the #15 because of their style. Again subjective.

Stop picking fights and start reading what people say and maybe you will see no one is being negative. In fact most think we have a very good chance at upsetting teams they just aren't ignorant enough to say it will happen. If you take you blinders off you will see that indiana is a better team than iowa and so is michigan and others. That means iowa should lose. But the key word is should...meaning it is possible they win. I would expect iowa to beat some teams at carver that they shouldn't and even get a win on the road that we don't expect. But we should be realistic so we don't turn on the team and players who put their all into it. Kind of like how you rip jvb though I would bet he puts more into his football prep then you put into your posts on here.
 
lets see Iowa returns 6 of the top 8 scorers, 5 of the top 6 scorers
#1 scorer Gatens at 15.2 ppg
Marble at 15.7 ppg has taken his place
#6 scorer Cartwright at 6.0 ppg
Gesell at 9.4 ppg has replaced him
Clemmons at 4.2 ppg have easily replaced Cartwright
Woodbury at 6.6 ppg has replaced what Brommer and Arche combined did
White increased from 11.1 ppg to 13.6 ppg
now rather than starting they are now coming off the bench providing something that Iowa has not had in years. solid bench scoring.
MCcabe is now getting 5.7 ppg from the bench vs 7.8 ppg as a starter.
this is what people are forgetting, other than Gatens and Cartwright, all the major players returned,
the mighty duo of Brom/Arch is also gone unless you are saying they were the main reason why Iowa beat Indiana, Michigan ans swept Wisconsin and Minnesota
 
Foval21 said:
Talk about talking out both sides of your mouth. Here you talk about how ranking people don't know what they are doing because of white and clemmons. Yet in football you talk about iowa's recruiting of higher star players being better than ever so our team is going to be great. Which is it does ranking matter or not?

This just shows how pointless recruiting sites are because they are subjective. Fran will recruit guys that fit his style and to him the #20 at a position may be better than the #15 because of their style. Again subjective.

Stop picking fights and start reading what people say and maybe you will see no one is being negative. In fact most think we have a very good chance at upsetting teams they just aren't ignorant enough to say it will happen. If you take you blinders off you will see that indiana is a better team than iowa and so is michigan and others. That means iowa should lose. But the key word is should...meaning it is possible they win. I would expect iowa to beat some teams at carver that they shouldn't and even get a win on the road that we don't expect. But we should be realistic so we don't turn on the team and players who put their all into it. Kind of like how you rip jvb though I would bet he puts more into his football prep then you put into your posts on here.
Click to expand...

just where and how did I ever rip JVB, as I was his biggest defender
again lying aboutr what I said with no proof, that works both ways.
people seem to think that this team is not talented enough and Michigan and MSU suddenly fell off the earth in talent
 
redhawk55 said:
lets see Iowa returns 6 of the top 8 scorers, 5 of the top 6 scorers
#1 scorer Gatens at 15.2 ppg
Marble at 15.7 ppg has taken his place
#6 scorer Cartwright at 6.0 ppg
Gesell at 9.4 ppg has replaced him
Clemmons at 4.2 ppg have easily replaced Cartwright
Woodbury at 6.6 ppg has replaced what Brommer and Arche combined did
White increased from 11.1 ppg to 13.6 ppg
now rather than starting they are now coming off the bench providing something that Iowa has not had in years. solid bench scoring.
MCcabe is now getting 5.7 ppg from the bench vs 7.8 ppg as a starter.
this is what people are forgetting, other than Gatens and Cartwright, all the major players returned,
the mighty duo of Brom/Arch is also gone unless you are saying they were the main reason why Iowa beat Indiana, Michigan ans swept Wisconsin and Minnesota
Click to expand...

Nobody is forgetting any of this. Iowa is better this year over last year. Indiana is also better this year, and it looks like Michigan is also.

You can list all the offensive numbers for Iowa that you want. The bottom line is Iowa is scoring at almost the exact same pace as last year. The big difference from last year, is the defense is looking much, much better over last years defense.

Quit being such an a$$ on here Herby. Just interact with other, and respect that they might have a different opinion than yours. Just because someone thinks that Indiana, Michigan, Michigan St. or others are still better than Iowa, doesn't mean they aren't Hawk fans.
 
redhawk55 said:
lets see Iowa returns 6 of the top 8 scorers, 5 of the top 6 scorers
#1 scorer Gatens at 15.2 ppg
Marble at 15.7 ppg has taken his place
#6 scorer Cartwright at 6.0 ppg
Gesell at 9.4 ppg has replaced him
Clemmons at 4.2 ppg have easily replaced Cartwright
Woodbury at 6.6 ppg has replaced what Brommer and Arche combined did
White increased from 11.1 ppg to 13.6 ppg
now rather than starting they are now coming off the bench providing something that Iowa has not had in years. solid bench scoring.
MCcabe is now getting 5.7 ppg from the bench vs 7.8 ppg as a starter.
this is what people are forgetting, other than Gatens and Cartwright, all the major players returned,
the mighty duo of Brom/Arch is also gone unless you are saying they were the main reason why Iowa beat Indiana, Michigan ans swept Wisconsin and Minnesota
Click to expand...

You are completely missing the point Red. You can quote stats all day long and last years games but the only thing that matters is what happens this year. I don't see it your way and stats you prove seem pointless to me. You see it too much of the logic of Iowa beat them last year so they have a good chance this year.

Indiana has better recruiting than Iowa plus Indiana has played better so far this year than Iowa. I don't see how last year has any affect on this year considering Indiana is the better team, a lot better.
 
Are we the only team that got better and returned almost everyone? No...indianda and michigan basically did the same. But both are relying less on freshmen than we are. It isn't about ignoring what iowa is...it is about comparing what iowa is to the team they are playing.

Everyone acknowledges how well iowa is playing and most (if not all) would say this year's team is better than last year's. But is indiana better than last year? Yes...is michigan better than last year? Yes.

Please try to follow the logic. Just because you upset a team last yr and get better the next yr does not guarantee a win. In fact it means that the team you upset is even less likely to look past you and even might give you more preparation time to make sure it doesn't happen again.
 
my point is every body is improving for Iowa as for theit Class rankings that class was 25th with 3 2* and 2 4*'s, if Clemmons, Meyer and Ingam were 3* on ESPN like they were on Rivals. who knows how high this class would have been. and there moght have been very little difference between the classes.
if Iowa was replacing 4 starters off last yeaRS TEAm I would be worried, but they are not
again Iowa is returning 5 of the top 6 scorers and 6 of the top 8. and thats a fact and they all played major roles in last years success,
sorry I am not buying into the hype surrounding Indiana, as for neing #1 they got there because of their name and past glory. they still have to beat Michigan, MSU and OSU to prove they deserve the hype. and as of now Michigan is ranked #2 and the only undefeated team in the BT
 
redhawk55 said:
my point is every body is improving for Iowa as for theit Class rankings that class was 25th with 3 2* and 2 4*'s, if Clemmons, Meyer and Ingam were 3* on ESPN like they were on Rivals. who knows how high this class would have been. and there moght have been very little difference between the classes.
if Iowa was replacing 4 starters off last yeaRS TEAm I would be worried, but they are not
again Iowa is returning 5 of the top 6 scorers and 6 of the top 8. and thats a fact and they all played major roles in last years success,
sorry I am not buying into the hype surrounding Indiana, as for neing #1 they got there because of their name and past glory. they still have to beat Michigan, MSU and OSU to prove they deserve the hype. and as of now Michigan is ranked #2 and the only undefeated team in the BT
Click to expand...

I don't think you are going to get much flack if you don't crown Indiana yet....I'm certainly not, as Michigan is looking like they might be better. The nice thing is it will all be settled on the court starting next week.
 
redhawk55 said:
my point is every body is improving for Iowa as for theit Class rankings that class was 25th with 3 2* and 2 4*'s, if Clemmons, Meyer and Ingam were 3* on ESPN like they were on Rivals. who knows how high this class would have been. and there moght have been very little difference between the classes.
if Iowa was replacing 4 starters off last yeaRS TEAm I would be worried, but they are not
again Iowa is returning 5 of the top 6 scorers and 6 of the top 8. and thats a fact and they all played major roles in last years success,
sorry I am not buying into the hype surrounding Indiana, as for neing #1 they got there because of their name and past glory. they still have to beat Michigan, MSU and OSU to prove they deserve the hype. and as of now Michigan is ranked #2 and the only undefeated team in the BT
Click to expand...

You are completely missing the point, Michigan and Indiana have had PAST recruiting classes better than Iowa's so if Iowa has one year that they MIGHT have been better then it still doesn't affect the fact that Indiana and Michigan are playing with more experienced talent and NOT relying heavily on 3 true freshman.


1 great year in recruiting isn't as good as multiple years of great recruiting.
 
ok lets look at this another way
May was a BT all freshman team selection
Basabe was BT all freshman team selection
White was a BT all freshman team selection and Freshman AA selection
unless you are saying they were all crap players
 
redhawk55 said:
ok lets look at this another way
May was a BT all freshman team selection
Basabe was BT all freshman team selection
White was a BT all freshman team selection and Freshman AA selection
unless you are saying they were all crap players
Click to expand...

May has been a bust ever since. He will have minimal minutes in league play if Gesell and Clemmons and stay healthy and out of foul trouble as well as Ingram improving his play as well.

Basabe had a horrible soph. year. Playing better now but is an energy guy, when he is playing well his game goes to the next level. When he isn't playing well it is ugly.

White is great, can't complain there.

Again, look at it this year, Michigan and Indiana have top to bottom better talent than Iowa. You lost that argument solely based on the recruiting arugment. Now you want to talk past awards as your argument?

No one is saying they are crap players but the past is the past and the only thing that matters is what they do now and how they match up. Feel free to disagree, that is fine it is your opinion but you aren't going to change many minds.
 
May only got the recognition because of how awful the team was. He should have never seen that many minutes as a freshman. Go away herby.
 
it all depends upon how you look at it
Gatens 12.2 ppg
Tucker 11.9 ppg
Fuller 9.7 ppg
May 9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.8 bpg and 1.1 spg
Payne 8.7 ppg
Cole 8.1 ppg. but keep trashing May if it makes you feel that much more superior
off that team Tucker, Fuller and Payne all left
May has been injured the last 2 seasons so his developement was slowed
just like Jok a current commit was top 10 in the country til knee issues set him back.
May, much to alot of your dismay is avg 17.1 mpg
4.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.1 bpg and 0.8 spg
 
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redhawk55 said:
it all depends upon how you look at it
Gatens 12.2 ppg
Tucker 11.9 ppg
Fuller 9.7 ppg
May 9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.8 bpg and 1.1 spg
Payne 8.7 ppg
Cole 8.1 ppg. but keep trashing May if it makes you feel that much more superior
off that team Tucker, Fuller and Payne all left
May has been injured the last 2 seasons so his developement was slowed
just like Jok a current commit was top 10 in the country til knee issues set him back.
May, much to alot of your dismay is avg 17.1 mpg
4.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.1 bpg and 0.8 spg
Click to expand...

May's stats prove that all frosh b1g doesn't equate greatness. As a frosh he was a starter and relied on to do a lot. Anymore he has been passed up and fills a much better role for his skill set. He is a good role player. If you want it to be all about him go back and hire lick because he would be the key guy this year. Mainly because no one else would be here.
 
redhawk55 said:
my point is every body is improving for Iowa as for theit Class rankings that class was 25th with 3 2* and 2 4*'s, if Clemmons, Meyer and Ingam were 3* on ESPN like they were on Rivals. who knows how high this class would have been. and there moght have been very little difference between the classes.
if Iowa was replacing 4 starters off last yeaRS TEAm I would be worried, but they are not
again Iowa is returning 5 of the top 6 scorers and 6 of the top 8. and thats a fact and they all played major roles in last years success,
sorry I am not buying into the hype surrounding Indiana, as for neing #1 they got there because of their name and past glory. they still have to beat Michigan, MSU and OSU to prove they deserve the hype. and as of now Michigan is ranked #2 and the only undefeated team in the BT
Click to expand...

Don't we have to do the same? We didn't exactly play a bunch of world-beaters this OOC schedule. As much as it pains me to say, I think at this point Indiana has the better resume and deserves to be where they are. That said, they've got to prove it night in and night out just like every other team in the B1G. Being a traditional powerhouse and the rank of your recruiting class mean absolutely nothing when it comes to naming a conference champion. Teams still have to win night in and night out, and the team that does that will be crowned when it's all said and done.
 
Regardless of how bad that Iowa team was during May's frosh campaign, he did some crazy stuff on the court.
Is he a B1G first teamer? No. No one expected him to be. Injuries certainly affected him the last two years.

But, that said, he did some magnificent things on the court as a freshman.
 
This was a nice dunk. It almost looks like the Coppin State player is giving May a boost. :)

1241.jpg
 
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