HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
Dude had a sneaky good year. He'll be missed
Hockenson, Hooker & A. Nelson on NFL Decisions
- Thread starter RobHowe
- Start date
Dude had a sneaky good year. He'll be missed
Fryowa
Administrator
First and second rounds have guaranteed money that would set their kids and grandkids up for life.
That’s without ever setting foot on an NFL field. You could get cut or have a career-ending injury in camp and you’re still paid.
Sorry, but if any of those three get high grades they need to do the responsible thing which is to get that cash. All P5 football players should be required to sit through the full Jake Butt story as part of their orientation.
If they are graded beyond the 2nd round then there is some slight grey area and some decisions to be made.
Adam
Well-Known Member
While true about the money thing for a player. I think the school should be allowed to pay for a 1 year insurance policy for 3 million. This $10,000 policy would keep lots of young men in college for their last year. Lots more would he able to earn their degree without the pressure of chasing the NFL money right away.
You can get a degree any time. The average NFL career is not that long, take the money, get a degree later on.
Lets not go overboard. Great win, but their mistakes set up a very short field for us on 2 drives, and we had a short pass that turned into a 75 yard td. That was our offense. -15 yards rushing. 199 total yards. This offense is very hard to watch, and has been for quite a while. That being said, it was a great effort, and we took advantage of MSU playing stupid and making mistakes.
Adam
Well-Known Member
Before you spout off some more you should go eat your crow from other threads. Like we don't all remember your hot takes on how awesome Miss St was and how they were forged against such great opponents.
Fryowa
Administrator
I don’t mean to split hairs, because I don’t totally disagree with you, but it would have to be more than that. The number 10 pick this year got over $17M fully guaranteed. If I’m Noah Fant I’d be taking that instead of coming back for a possible $3M if I got hurt. You also have to consider that NFL careers are ridiculously short, and playing another college season at the B1G level is a ton of wear and tear on the body even without an injury. I’d want to come into the Not For Long with as fresh a body as I could.
Looking at the insurance angle from a macro perspective, I think if you opened the flood gates on that you are also opening a huge ethical can of worms. Essentially, a college would be paying money and exercising a de facto “option” on a player. That would be gambling and regardless of whether you agree with paying players, I don’t think I like the world where coaches and ADs are sitting around a table debating whether or which players to offer an insurance policy to stay. A scholarship could be called a gamble by a school, but there is a clear cut service provided aside from sports in the form of a degree.
Like I mentioned before, to retain a potential first or second rounder you’d need some seriously expensive policies and you’d never get companies to offer equivalent dollar amounts anyway because of the potential to commit fraud. If you went to a player and said, “Hey, we’d like to buy a $15M, no strings insurance policy if you’d stay for your senior year,” how hard would it be to say your back is killing you or that you’re feeling persistent concussion symptoms after a big hit—you know, stuff you can’t tangibly measure. Insurance companies think the same way and they set the prices of their policies accordingly. If the insured party (the player) doesn’t have any financial skin in the game you can bet your ass there’s no way they’re going to even offer a big policy.
The only way to retain players is for the NFL to say players have to be four years out of high school and that won’t happen, nor should it. Three years is the best compromise because if you make it longer you start potentially infringing on people’s rights to work, and if you go shorter than that you’re going to end up with the same shit sandwich the NBA has now. We just need to face it that the best players are only going to be here three years, and the more often it happens (which it will), the better we should be able to recruit. I know it’s not this simple, but after Kittle’s season, the list of Clark, Moeaki, Myers, Chandler, Fiedorowicz all having success in the NFL, and Fant/Hockenson this year, Iowa should be able to go get any TE they want. That’s the only way to spin it.
Fryowa
Administrator
To be fair, if Guidry didn’t literally hand Gervase the football in the end zone, the Hawks lose. At that point we’d be saying that MSU’s DL was impenetrable and that Fitzgerald ran on us at will to win the game. Both of those things happened.
17 million after paying your agent and taxes is nowhere near enough money to set up 3 generations for life. Its obviously good money but there is more to life than money. If Hockenson would have skipped the bowl game, I bet it would be a decision he regretted the rest of his life.
To be fair, you have no idea what would have happened if he caught it, other than ISM would have had another return attempt, a QB that completed 60% of his passes had lots of time(probably 2 possessions worth), and a full compliment of TOs. Saying they would have lost when all they did is respond all day is conjecture(with an agenda) at best
proudhawkfan21
Well-Known Member
I really HATE to seem to agree with Fryowa on ANYTHING.....but.....did you watch the Hawks this year? All that cool stuff that you suggest....its called a unicorn. Lockness monster. Easter Bunny. The same qb who couldnt win 4 games with drives and gift wrapped one of MSU's scores, the same return man who made it possible for MSU to even be in the game, the same team going against the #1 defense in the nation.....really? I mean...maybe....but....really? Again, pleased with the outcome but...i disagree that we win after MSU catches that TD pass (if they had).
proudhawkfan21
Well-Known Member
Hockenson - Based on the nature of the TE position, i think he can benefit from another year of strength growth by coming back. I also think he values his growth and has a strong pride in being a Hawkeye. I think he is 60/40 leaving. I support his decision either way.
Before my thoughts on Hooker or Nelson, it is important to note a couple things.
1. Not all kids going to the NFL set their goal at getting one payday and then expecting to go down in flames. Some might look to better prepare themselves for a long career. Coming out a year too soon to the wrong team could derail that long career. Josh Jackson may or may not have a long career. At this moment, Desmond King might. I'm sure you see the point made there. Might Hockenson compare to Josh Jackson here? Another year at a high level as opposed to just one super great college year. Experience gained and physical growth are crucial at this age as translating to the NFL.
2. Some kids value the college experience. I played baseball in college (no threat of going pro) and loved playing. If they bust in the pros they give up a year of playing a game they love with close friends. Not everyone does everything for the money. This matters to some people.
3. Injuries CAN happen. Thats life. Bigger paydays might await as well. Its a gamble. So is driving to work. So is eating take out. I respect the money grab, but maybe staying in college, getting a degree or closer to it is more important for the rest of your life, not just the next 5-10 yrs. History shows a lot of these pros blow the money anyway in short time. Most people are less likely to return to college later in life after moving on.
Hooker. To be honest, safeties are a dime a dozen. Lock down corners....goldmine. Look at Desmond King. PFF rates him as one of the best db's in the NFL and he plays slot nickel cover. No one pays for that position. He'll be as valued and paid the same next year. Its up to his fear of injury, not value. Also, sacrafice of a fun senior year. His money value wont change this year to next.
Nelson. He isnt listed as a must have edge rusher. Too tall for interior DL, too skinny for length. 3rd or 4th round value at his highest in my opinion, probably 5th or later. Should come back and enjoy his senior season.
Predictions:
Hockenson - NFL (should stay)
Hooker - NFL (should stay)
Nelson - Stays (right decusion)
Fant's decision to avoid bowl and enter draft are both the right decision.
Before my thoughts on Hooker or Nelson, it is important to note a couple things.
1. Not all kids going to the NFL set their goal at getting one payday and then expecting to go down in flames. Some might look to better prepare themselves for a long career. Coming out a year too soon to the wrong team could derail that long career. Josh Jackson may or may not have a long career. At this moment, Desmond King might. I'm sure you see the point made there. Might Hockenson compare to Josh Jackson here? Another year at a high level as opposed to just one super great college year. Experience gained and physical growth are crucial at this age as translating to the NFL.
2. Some kids value the college experience. I played baseball in college (no threat of going pro) and loved playing. If they bust in the pros they give up a year of playing a game they love with close friends. Not everyone does everything for the money. This matters to some people.
3. Injuries CAN happen. Thats life. Bigger paydays might await as well. Its a gamble. So is driving to work. So is eating take out. I respect the money grab, but maybe staying in college, getting a degree or closer to it is more important for the rest of your life, not just the next 5-10 yrs. History shows a lot of these pros blow the money anyway in short time. Most people are less likely to return to college later in life after moving on.
Hooker. To be honest, safeties are a dime a dozen. Lock down corners....goldmine. Look at Desmond King. PFF rates him as one of the best db's in the NFL and he plays slot nickel cover. No one pays for that position. He'll be as valued and paid the same next year. Its up to his fear of injury, not value. Also, sacrafice of a fun senior year. His money value wont change this year to next.
Nelson. He isnt listed as a must have edge rusher. Too tall for interior DL, too skinny for length. 3rd or 4th round value at his highest in my opinion, probably 5th or later. Should come back and enjoy his senior season.
Predictions:
Hockenson - NFL (should stay)
Hooker - NFL (should stay)
Nelson - Stays (right decusion)
Fant's decision to avoid bowl and enter draft are both the right decision.
Adam
Well-Known Member
Anyway you slice it, it was nowhere near the blood bath foretold by Caddy.
tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
To be fair, conjecture is a dangerous game to play. But since you’ve gone there, Iowa’s two turnovers demonstrably cost us 13 points (and momentum.) That fluky interception cost MSU 7 points. Take away all three turnovers and that’s still +6 Iowa. I’ll take that.
I like this; but it'd be exorbitantly expensive.
And if Gervase had made the interception at the 7 earlier in the game, MSU wouldn't have been within 5 on that play.
Now, if MSU isn't so chippy to start the game, Iowa loses. The refs extended a lot of our drives today. I can't say that MSU was the better team, though.
I think you can only say refs extended drives if they make the wrong call. Calling a penalty that actually happened isn't the refs extending our drive.
guffus
Well-Known Member
The earlier drop by Gervase, if you are talking about the one late in the first half, did not cost Iowa any points. It was 3rd down, MSU then punted next play.
Adam
Well-Known Member
Those are all fair counter arguments. A couple of them I believe have simple enough work arounds, but I realize that it is extremely unlikely to ever happen. I also realize that a true 1st round guy is never going to stay based off of an insurance policy. It's more of a musing about the fringe guys that are at more risk of a pro career fizzling out.
