High School Officials

[kameltoez102]

Yeah and I wasn't even really thinking of dealing with the coaching side of it. You'd think that'd be the easy part.. I would have thought the parents of the kids would be terrible.... But if the administrators are the worst of the worst then what the hell is one to do? May God bless the folks that do it for the right reasons for the kids because as much as I'd love to I'm not sure I'd be able to for long with all that goes with it.

The problem is perspective. There are many coaches I coach with now and on the other teams that have coached High School Varsity and some college, while some being successful enough where they won state championships at the varsity level.

Some get that this is a time for learning and getting the kids to enjoy playing a game that is essentially dying in footballs case. There are others that see it as a way to power trip and show that they can be the biggest asshole on the planet and they know it all.

 

[Fryowa]

@Fryowa so have you ever been tossed as a ref letting a coach or parent have it back?

You guys won't believe this but I've actually never said a word to a spectator. I let it roll off; I apparently have whatever gene it is that makes me not care if someone is mad at me (unless I deserve it)

I've had coaches lose their minds over calls before, but generally when you give them a warning they back off. It's when officials let it keep going that it gets bad. You have to nicely jump on it right away.

If I get a screamer coach, I generally call time out and walk over to him. When you're 60 feet apart and both have to yell at each other to be heard, two things happen...

1) You don't hear what the other is saying and it leads to more of a shit show than you started with, and

2) When you're conversing at a distance the crowd can hear you and those idiots are like a school of piranhas. Whatever you do keep the crowd out of it and don't yell back because they can hear you and they know you can't kick them out.

I usually say something to the effect of, "Mike/Bill/Tom (never call them "Coach"), you can be mad at me if you want, but we're not going to do this right now. Neither one of us has time for it." I'll explain the call if I can (under no circumstances ever throw your partner under the bus), and then I start walking away. If he follows and keeps ranting I let him know that it's going to be an ejection, and if that doesn't do it or he says something insulting I do the heave ho. I think I've ejected coaches maybe four times in my life, the vast majority let it rest after they blow a little steam off. Either way I try not to let it go more than 30-40 seconds for the whole exchange. After that you look unprofessional and look like you're not in control of the game.

Players it happens more and obviously your tolerance for BS is way lower. High school boys are hormoned up, and after watching pro athletes argue on TV they get funny ideas. Last year the only kid I tossed was a freshman first baseman, he didn't like a safe call, told my partner "That was bullshit," and got tossed. On his way out he turned around to my partner and goes, "Whatever man, that's fine." If it were my son he'd be done playing sports for the rest of his high school career, but that's just me.

Again, I know you guys won't believe it, but there are officials who toss a hell of a lot more people than me. Some are thin skinned, and some don't know how to deescalate.

 

[Fryowa]

May God bless the folks that do it for the right reasons for the kids because as much as I'd love to I'm not sure I'd be able to for long with all that goes with it.

I'll never claim to be a martyr because I wouldn't do it if I didn't get paid what I think is a commiserate amount of money, but I can tell you if I didn't also love baseball there's no way in hell I'd even consider officiating.

I originally got into it because I thought it'd be fun, but it's a way different kind of "fun" that I anticipated, if that makes any sense.

When a game goes well and you know you and your partner kicked ass as efficiently as possible, it's a rush.

 

[Fryowa]

Some may not translate well as it is for younger kids as apposed to high school aged

A major one they are looking at is having a parents meeting (Both Teams) on the field before the game that includes an introduction to the refs so they can tell them who they are what they do for a living etc to hit home that these guys are not professional refs and they are out here trying to help our kids learn the game and get better. At this time they are looking at having parents shake hands before the games and it was a rule this year that if the coaches cannot control their parents and it becomes an issue the game is forfeited at that point and the field is cleared.

That's an outstanding idea.

I do 3rd-6th grade rec games in our town (non travel ball stuff) to help out when I'm free, I might just take it upon myself to do that next time before a game. Our rec director might shit a brick, but whatever...

I do know one local youth tournament around here every summer they have a rule that umpires can kick spectators out, and they don't start the game again until said fan is at least three blocks away. They even have a map showing the boundaries of how far away you have to go before they continue.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

The problem is perspective. There are many coaches I coach with now and on the other teams that have coached High School Varsity and some college, while some being successful enough where they won state championships at the varsity level.

Some get that this is a time for learning and getting the kids to enjoy playing a game that is essentially dying in footballs case. There are others that see it as a way to power trip and show that they can be the biggest asshole on the planet and they know it all.

For sure. The shoes one is in is everything and everyone is looking out for good ole #1 be it their own kid or team or themselves... These last 20ish years or so that I've been an adult have been stupid in this regard. I can understand why folks stop doing it and others won't start. You talk about a thankless job these rank right up there.

 

[Robowe]

I may have posted this previously, but this happened at the Iowa State Soccer Tournament this past summer.

 

[99topdawg]

You guys won't believe this but I've actually never said a word to a spectator. I let it roll off; I apparently have whatever gene it is that makes me not care if someone is mad at me (unless I deserve it)

I've had coaches lose their minds over calls before, but generally when you give them a warning they back off. It's when officials let it keep going that it gets bad. You have to nicely jump on it right away.

If I get a screamer coach, I generally call time out and walk over to him. When you're 60 feet apart and both have to yell at each other to be heard, two things happen...

I need you in my neck of the woods. We've got guys with major trigger fingers. In 30+ years of coaching LL through college, I've been tossed once.

With runners on 1st and 2nd and 1 out in the 7th, our kid fielded a GB, threw it to first and he called him safe. It was a close play, but he got it right. Our 1B then looked like he was going to throw it to 2B because the kid rounded it too far. I yelled "No, no!" at our 1B. The HOME PLATE ump thought I was yelling about the call at 1st and dumped me. I went out to explain what I was yelling about and he went total asshole on me. He didn't call a single strike the rest of the inning and we lost on a walk-off walk. He just walked by after the game and smiled. Haven't had him since and I don't know if he still does games (he doesn't live in my are anymore).

 

[99topdawg]

You guys won't believe this but I've actually never said a word to a spectator. I let it roll off; I apparently have whatever gene it is that makes me not care if someone is mad at me (unless I deserve it)

I've had coaches lose their minds over calls before, but generally when you give them a warning they back off. It's when officials let it keep going that it gets bad. You have to nicely jump on it right away.

If I get a screamer coach, I generally call time out and walk over to him. When you're 60 feet apart and both have to yell at each other to be heard, two things happen...

I can't say how much we coaches appreciate this. We're told to understand that you make mistakes and are human, but some guys make us out to be perfect and the first time we step out of line...

Again, thank you...and move to my area of the state!!!

 

[Fryowa]

I need you in my neck of the woods. We've got guys with major trigger fingers. In 30+ years of coaching LL through college, I've been tossed once.

With runners on 1st and 2nd and 1 out in the 7th, our kid fielded a GB, threw it to first and he called him safe. It was a close play, but he got it right. Our 1B then looked like he was going to throw it to 2B because the kid rounded it too far. I yelled "No, no!" at our 1B. The HOME PLATE ump thought I was yelling about the call at 1st and dumped me. I went out to explain what I was yelling about and he went total asshole on me. He didn't call a single strike the rest of the inning and we lost on a walk-off walk. He just walked by after the game and smiled. Haven't had him since and I don't know if he still does games (he doesn't live in my are anymore).

I can’t really comment on any other part of the state but mine, but here the ADs have ultimate say if who officiates. We have assignors, but if an AD doesn’t like you, you won’t be working there. That’s why West Lyon has about four different umpires that work their home games. The reason I mention it is that if you got tossed like that here the ump would get black balled for sure.

 

[Fryowa]

I can't say how much we coaches appreciate this. We're told to understand that you make mistakes and are human, but some guys make us out to be perfect and the first time we step out of line...

Again, thank you...and move to my area of the state!!!

Haha, there’s only two things I ever ask of coaches—don’t argue bangers at first (neither of us really know who got there first and neither of us can prove it anyway), and if there was a procedural F up with a dead ball situation or a weird rule, just call time and walk out to talk about it. After that I’m golden

 

[99topdawg]

Haha, there’s only two things I ever ask of coaches—don’t argue bangers at first (neither of us really know who got there first and neither of us can prove it anyway), and if there was a procedural F up with a dead ball situation or a weird rule, just call time and walk out to talk about it. After that I’m golden

I can honestly say that I've never argued a bang-bang play at 1st, because of the exact reason you said. Also, if an umpire acts like he wants to be there, hustles, and knows his rule book, I'm fine with any screw up he might make, because he did his best. It's those that don't try their best that I have a problem with. I've seen some pretty brutal stuff in my days.

 

[99topdawg]

I just remembered a call from last year that benefited me that I argued, because it was so bad.

We had nobody on and hit a ground ball down the 1st base line and it hit the orange base and went into foul territory. The umpire called it fair. The opposing coach came out and said that it was foul because it hit the orange base. The umpire said, and I can still hear it plain as day, "Yes it did, and when it hits the base, it's a fair ball." I walked down from 3rd and got in on the discussion and I even pointed out where the lines were chalked and we finally convinced him to call it foul, even though he still didn't agree with us. "Well, I guess if you guys are both OK with it." SMH...

 

[Fryowa]

I can honestly say that I've never argued a bang-bang play at 1st, because of the exact reason you said. Also, if an umpire acts like he wants to be there, hustles, and knows his rule book, I'm fine with any screw up he might make, because he did his best. It's those that don't try their best that I have a problem with. I've seen some pretty brutal stuff in my days.

High five.

 

[GVGiant44]

I've been on both sides of this issue. I have done a lot of umping in baseball and softball and officiating in basketball. I have also been a coach in both.

In basketball, the game moves SO fast anymore - and I never even once got the benefit of officiating as a part of the (now standard) 3-man crew. Mine were always two, and half the time in the early days, my co-official was such a bozo, he didn't remember to blow his whistle if there was a foul. I finally found a fantastic partner, and we worked well together. I retired when he moved to southern Illinois.

But we took charge of the games, and called them close - especially in the early minutes of the game (it always paid dividends later on). I only had trouble with one coach, and I handled it just the way FryIowa did. I also only ever had trouble with one spectator - and I had to inform my wife that if she ever did that again, I would instruct the other official to have her removed (true story).

As for baseball/softball, know the rules - and for crying out loud, PAY ATTENTION. The one time I went nearly postal as a base coach was when my team was in a major rally, and we were going ahead on a fly ball that the center fielder tried to field but dropped - it went behind him a couple of steps, where he then picked up the ball and threw it back into the infield.

That is until both of my runners were called out. The one umpire said that neither of my players had tagged up. I was so dumb-founded at what he said that he started to try to explain the rule to me - when I informed him that was only when the player catches the ball. Somehow, NEITHER UMPIRE saw that the ball had been dropped, even though he had to walk behind him to pick it up.

Close plays are close plays - and you learn the techniques for how to best manage those. But to this day (that was a LONG time ago), I do not know what I was to have done differently in something that was SO obvious, akin to calling a home run when someone strikes out. But aside from that, I let umpires be umpires - and usually they do a good job - and I try to.

 

[Fryowa]

I just remembered a call from last year that benefited me that I argued, because it was so bad.

We had nobody on and hit a ground ball down the 1st base line and it hit the orange base and went into foul territory. The umpire called it fair. The opposing coach came out and said that it was foul because it hit the orange base. The umpire said, and I can still hear it plain as day, "Yes it did, and when it hits the base, it's a fair ball." I walked down from 3rd and got in on the discussion and I even pointed out where the lines were chalked and we finally convinced him to call it foul, even though he still didn't agree with us. "Well, I guess if you guys are both OK with it." SMH...

Holy shit. Was that an IAHSAA umpire?

A couple mistakes there aside from the obvious miss...

1) He changed a call...that’s a no no

2) He asked coaches if they were cool with it lol. He just lost any shred of legitimacy that he may have had left.

The double first base rules are 101. I don’t know how you’d even pass your test if you were that uninformed. Even if you don’t know the particular rule the goddamn chalk line literally goes right up to it.

This is from the NFHS rulebook ($6 and you can have it on your phone, all coaches and officials should do it)

 

[99topdawg]

Holy shit. Was that an IAHSAA umpire?

A couple mistakes there aside from the obvious miss...

1) He changed a call...that’s a no no

2) He asked coaches if they were cool with it lol. He just lost any shred of legitimacy that he may have had left.

The double first base rules are 101. I don’t know how you’d even pass your test if you were that uninformed. Even if you don’t know the particular the goddamn chalk line literally goes right up to it.

This is from the NFHS rulebook ($6 and you can have it on your phone, all coaches and officials should do it)

Yes, varsity game. See why we lose it sometimes?

 

[Fryowa]

That is until both of my runners were called out. The one umpire said that neither of my players had tagged up. I was so dumb-founded at what he said that he started to try to explain the rule to me - when I informed him that was only when the player catches the ball. Somehow, NEITHER UMPIRE saw that the ball had been dropped, even though he had to walk behind him to pick it up.

Close plays are close plays - and you learn the techniques for how to best manage those. But to this day (that was a LONG time ago), I do not know what I was to have done differently in something that was SO obvious, akin to calling a home run when someone strikes out. But aside from that, I let umpires be umpires - and usually they do a good job - and I try to.

Hold up a second, here...this is a multifaceted clusterfuck.

An umpire can’t just call a runner out for a missed tag up. A live ball appeal has to be made before the next pitch, i.e. a fielder has to touch the base in possession of the ball (in your case both bases). An umpire can’t just wait for the ball to be dead and say, “You’re out.” Doesn’t work that way. No different than an umpire saying by his/her own volition that someone missed a base. It’s on the other team to notice it and appeal. If that umpire did what you described out of nowhere I’d be reporting that situation. That’s just insane.

So even if the OF caught the ball and even if your guys didn’t tag up, he can’t just call the runners out.

 

[Fryowa]

Yes, varsity game. See why we lose it sometimes?

I can’t say I’ve ever seen anything that dumb outside the middle school level. Guys like that usually get weeded out pretty quick.

We have a few hacks around here who are there for the easy paycheck but normally they don’t last long after getting yelled at.

 

[SmokeTownHawk]

I remember umpiring for our Luther League high schoolers when I was in college. Did it one summer and never again. I tip my hat to anyone who can do it in more organized leagues; jr. high and beyond.

 

[AIRHAWK]

I remember umpiring for our Luther League high schoolers when I was in college. Did it one summer and never again. I tip my hat to anyone who can do it in more organized leagues; jr. high and beyond.

Your ump stories remind me of an umpire in Eastern Iowa oh wow...45-50 years ago. His name was Joe Stires (SP). About 5'6", 110 lbs, my guess maybe 70 years old. No lie his glasses were about 3" thick. Most distinctive strike call...lol great memories. He had a big chest protector, you could hardly see him.