High School Officials

[Fryowa]

I know this is off topic, but this is the most active place on the board and I wanted to get some feedback. If it angers you, I apologize.

To any of you folks on the board who officiate freshman through varsity sports (or the equivalent age groups in AAU, USSSA, American Legion), what sport do you do and what is the pay per hour or game in your area?

We had our association meeting last night and divvied out most of next summer's JV/varsity baseball double headers and weekend tournaments. According to our assignor, he lost 11 umpires last year and gained 3, and lost 8 so far this year and gained one for a net loss of 15. Our group covers several conferences; I work mostly Siouxland, Lakes, War Eagle, Twin Lakes, and Western Valley and being so short one could work every single night (and Saturday) from opening day until playoffs. I've never seen such a lack of people to work. To add to the problem, we're pretty close to SE SD and SW MN, and legion games pay better than high school in Iowa (although the fan/coach abuse is way worse).

Football in this area is the same way in regards to numbers. I've gotten asked to start that again as well, but haven't decided if I want to give up Friday nights.

Scum bag parents and a handful of coaches are the biggest reason for baseball non-retention by far, but we are trying to make the case for more pay. Area AD's are saying 1) they can't afford it, and 2) even if they could, $10-15 wouldn't draw new people in.

Right now, a JV/V double header pays $110-115 in our area, and football crews in the area (I've only worked football in one conference myself) pay $100.

If you officiate...what sport, how much do you make, is there a shortage in your area, and is there a lot of competition from club sports like AAU? I'm looking for any sports, not just baseball or football.

 

[okeefe4prez]

War Eagle,

ROLL TIDE

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I know this is off topic, but this is the most active place on the board and I wanted to get some feedback. If it angers you, I apologize.

To any of you folks on the board who officiate freshman through varsity sports (or the equivalent age groups in AAU, USSSA, American Legion), what sport do you do and what is the pay per hour or game in your area?

We had our association meeting last night and divvied out most of next summer's JV/varsity baseball double headers and weekend tournaments. According to our assignor, he lost 11 umpires last year and gained 3, and lost 8 so far this year and gained one for a net loss of 15. Our group covers several conferences; I work mostly Siouxland, Lakes, War Eagle, Twin Lakes, and Western Valley and being so short one could work every single night (and Saturday) from opening day until playoffs. I've never seen such a lack of people to work. To add to the problem, we're pretty close to SE SD and SW MN, and legion games pay better than high school in Iowa (although the fan/coach abuse is way worse).

Football in this area is the same way in regards to numbers. I've gotten asked to start that again as well, but haven't decided if I want to give up Friday nights.

Scum bag parents and a handful of coaches are the biggest reason for baseball non-retention by far, but we are trying to make the case for more pay. Area AD's are saying 1) they can't afford it, and 2) even if they could, $10-15 wouldn't draw new people in.

Right now, a JV/V double header pays $110-115 in our area, and football crews in the area (I've only worked football in one conference myself) pay $100.

If you officiate...what sport, how much do you make, is there a shortage in your area, and is there a lot of competition from club sports like AAU? I'm looking for any sports, not just baseball or football.

You guys need to sue for rights to Name/Image/Likeness...

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Good luck my man... If I still lived up there I'd be all about it.

 

[okeefe4prez]

If I still lived up there

Yeah, I gotta think the population around that area isn't exactly robust.

 

[Fryowa]

Good luck my man... If I still lived up there I'd be all about it.

Yeah, I gotta think the population around that area isn't exactly robust.

It isn't, but the situation is actually worse in central Iowa comparatively. Several times a week the IAHSAA sends out emails with 40 or 50 schools needing umps that same night and the vast majority are down there. The bigger population obviously has a lot to do with it...

 

[Hawkfnntn]

It isn't, but the situation is actually worse in central Iowa comparatively. Several times a week the IAHSAA sends out emails with 40 or 50 schools needing umps that same night and the vast majority are down there. The bigger population obviously has a lot to do with it...

Be a great gig for college kids to get in on part time. But nobody wants to cut out their free time for it regardless of age. Your talking about games starting at 6 usually running till 9 or 10 or 1030 before your on your way home. The dudes in their mid 20s to 40 all have families and chasing their own around. Older folks then that are just saying it's not worth it to them with all the backlash you mentioned etc. Which I have no clue how to fix. To me it's common sense how to conduct yourself at such things and for those that don't have it how can you instill it?

 

[SpiderRico]

Until the league/school officials start throwing out parents or coaches who are the problem, then there's no incentive for that shit to stop. There's going to come a point in the (not so distant) future when high school games are going to end up getting cancelled for lack of officials.

 

[Fryowa]

Be a great gig for college kids to get in on part time.

It'd be huge for college kids. If you hit it hard you could easily clear 5 grand in a couple months. On top of that you could have a day job, or at least not have to work so much during the day.

Your talking about games starting at 6 usually running till 9 or 10 or 1030 before your on your way home.

That's part of the drawback. We lose a lot of guys to softball because of it. In Iowa JV games generally start at 5:30, Varsity first pitch is 7:30. 9:30 you're usually heading to your car, 20 minutes to get changed and review the game with your partner, and usually a half hour drive home. Then laundry for the next night's games.

Usually the softball umps are heading home during the 4th inning of the baseball game and sometimes earlier.

Older folks then that are just saying it's not worth it to them with all the backlash you mentioned etc. Which I have no clue how to fix. To me it's common sense how to conduct yourself at such things and for those that don't have it how can you instill it?

They definitely need to get tougher on coaches. There are a couple long-term basketball refs in the system (I don't do basketball) petitioning for coaches to be required to sit on the bench at all times. In baseball there's a push for coach ejections to result in an immediate forfeit (not helpful if they're losing anyway) and a 5 contest suspension. But, good luck with that because every official has a different level of shit they're willing to take. As far as the crowd, they need to bite the bullet and follow other states' examples and allow officials to toss spectators. In Iowa you're forbidden to address the crowd whatsoever; you're supposed to go find the school rep and have them handle it.

The problem comes when the rep is the one dishing out the abuse. I'm gonna go ahead and lay this out because, well, eff this guy--but Tim Snyder (Brandon Snyder's dad) is West Lyon's elementary principal and the biggest, most insufferable douche rocket you'll ever come across in NW Iowa. We've all seen the type...knows all sports better than every official, yadda yadda. He camps out under the basket every home game and counts out loud to 10 every time the visitors inbound, and then every time West Lyon is on the D end he's yelling "FOUR ONE THOUSAND, FIVE ONE THOUSAND..." One of my coworkers walked by him at the end of a game last year and thanked him for keeping track of the backcourt time and Snyder chased his ass down like Fran. Then no one had the key to the locker room so they had to stand there and listen to him flip out. My buddy should have kept his mouth shut, but at the same time how do you toss the guy who's supposed to be keeping order? It's a no win situation.

Side note, Brandon coached WL freshman baseball last year, and I've got a few stories about that dude too. Let's just say that apple landed right at the bottom of the tree.

All in all though it's 99% parents. People can deal with long hours and low pay if they love the sport, but when some soccer mom painting her nails who's never played a sport in her life starts telling you what a piece of shit you are because Kayden looked at three fastballs in a row, it wears on ya a little.

 

[Fryowa]

There's going to come a point in the (not so distant) future when high school games are going to end up getting cancelled for lack of officials.

We had two freshman games get canceled up here last season. Which sucks because not all teams can even put a freshman team together anymore. When they get enough kids it's a shame to cancel on em.

I've done single ump before and have no problem doing that for freshman stuff. It's actually kind of nice calling balls and strikes from behind the mound.

 

[kameltoez102]

We have had the same issues here in the Twin Cities with our middle school and younger aged kids and referees. A year or two ago we started playing most of our home games on Sundays because we could get better quality referees and because we weren't competing with high school and small colleges for the refs. It worked pretty well until last year when the numbers of refs dropped pretty dramatically. The back fill isn't getting any better with hardly any younger kids getting into it

A couple reasons we were told is

1) refs didn't want to work just 1 or 2 games they wanted more like 4 plus so you really need to be on top of scheduling and unfortunately some organizations are not good at that so a 1-2 game schedule on a Sunday was tough so we were booking 4-5 games and then it gets tough for volunteers etc for the other stuff.

2) Issues with parents and players is the biggest. The amount of rules and procedures being changed this next year in our league because of the parents is just astounding. I don't remember ever seeing it this bad.

I think we are paying minimum $50 per game so really money shouldn't be the issue considering most are around an hour or a little more as you get to the older kids

 

[Fryowa]

2) Issues with parents and players is the biggest. The amount of rules and procedures being changed this next year in our league because of the parents is just astounding. I don't remember ever seeing it this bad.

Out of curiosity, what are some of the rule changes you guys are doing?

 

[BVHawk95]

I'm gonna sound like an asshole for this, but as a HS coach, if you do put your name in for this:

KNOW THE GAME

The amount of farcical calls I witnessed this season was insane. I realize that it is a volunteer job, but when it gets to the point that the kids' experience is being hindered every week, it's extremely frustrating. There's a ref in our area that loves to be the center of attention, and as such will make ticky-tack calls all game against both teams.

 

[westender]

Put body cams on refs.

 

[westender]

I went to one high school basketball game about 15 years ago where the AD had to jump on the mike and tell parents to cut their shit out or people were getting tossed.

 

[westender]

I'm gonna sound like an asshole for this, but as a HC coach, if you do put your name in for this:

KNOW THE GAME

The amount of farcical calls I witnessed this season was insane. I realize that it is a volunteer job, but when it gets to the point that the kids' experience is being hindered every week, it's extremely frustrating. There's a ref in our area that loves to be the center of attention, and as such will make ticky-tack calls all game against both teams.

And likewise, KNOW YOUR REF and play accordingly.

 

[westender]

I am going to consider doing it when I retire. At that point I don't give a damn what a parent or coach thinks.

 

[westender]

@Fryowa so have you ever been tossed as a ref letting a coach or parent have it back?

 

[kameltoez102]

Out of curiosity, what are some of the rule changes you guys are doing?

Some may not translate well as it is for younger kids as apposed to high school aged

A major one they are looking at is having a parents meeting (Both Teams) on the field before the game that includes an introduction to the refs so they can tell them who they are what they do for a living etc to hit home that these guys are not professional refs and they are out here trying to help our kids learn the game and get better. At this time they are looking at having parents shake hands before the games and it was a rule this year that if the coaches cannot control their parents and it becomes an issue the game is forfeited at that point and the field is cleared.

The others are really going to be based on behavior. I know of several teams that are not being asked back into our league because of behavioral issues. The others are scheduling rules based on the ref availability which I laid out earlier. Several other things are also being explored for player, parent, and coach discipline but nothing concrete yet as it would most likely be handled by the individual associations at that point rather than the league

Fortunately I was not a part of anything bad this year but there were many incidents in our league where refs were confronted on the field by parents during games, which is a big no no as there are rules in place that parents were to stay so many feet off the field if there were no fences or barriers, as well as harassed on the way to cars etc.

My team was fortunate to play in US Bank stadium this year for a end of year set of games and the team field was cut in half at the last minute because they actually did checks on teams and teams that had issues with violence or parent issues were told they were not welcome so instead of playing 2-3 games we played 1 which was fine but it has become a major issue where organizations such as the Vikings are paying attention and are not welcoming it. Awesome experience for the kids so those teams really missed out

We used to do a preseason jamboree against more of the inner city St. Paul teams but the lack of rules and parent issues became a safety issue for us so we did not do it this year and lo and behold a few of the teams that we would play in that jamboree had a shooting this year at one of their games. This is 7-8th grade and younger I am talking about which makes it even more sickening.

I have been coaching for nearly 10 years now in the city association type leagues so we are not talking about a club team or major traveling team atmosphere where kids are coming from all around to try-out and we are going out of state to play. There have never been any college or pro scouts watching the kids, no sponsors watching so the stakes are low, It has become so much more about parents living through their kids I am very close to not doing it anymore.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Yeah and I wasn't even really thinking of dealing with the coaching side of it. You'd think that'd be the easy part.. I would have thought the parents of the kids would be terrible.... But if the administrators are the worst of the worst then what the hell is one to do? May God bless the folks that do it for the right reasons for the kids because as much as I'd love to I'm not sure I'd be able to for long with all that goes with it.