Hey Alford Haters

Just so the rest of the haters know, Alf and the hobos lost to dayton today. Alf is going to have to win the auto bid from the MWC if he thinks he can make the dance. His team does not have a win against a team in the top 100.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
Under Alford, we did win more games than we lost every year except his first season as our coach (which we haven't done since he left), so he wasn't a HORRIBLE coach. He left the program in better shape for Lick than Lick did for McCaffery. But Alford was certainly no John Wooden, or even a Mr. Davis, for that matter.
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I agree with you, but saying he left the program in better shape for Lickliter than Lickliter did for McCaffery isn't saying a whole lot. Look at the Iowa roster that was left and there were no real quality players, maybe Cyrus Tate, but he really played well against Michigan and average against anyone else. Yeah players came and went under Lickliter, but it wasn't much of full cupboard when he got there. Lickliter was just not the right coach to build Iowa back up, he didn't have to do that at Butler, they had been good for a while and he didn't have to do it anywhere else. That was his major fault, not knowing where to begin and missing out on some quality players like E'twuan Moore and JaJuan Johnson were his undoing. A lot of the players that left under Lickliter were not significant losses, the problem was he didn't get any better players when he got "do-overs" in recruiting. Whomever posted, what if we would have hired Fran in 2007 makes a valid point, even if it wasn't Fran, that is the style of coach Iowa needed. That type of hire just fits the Iowa personality and what the fanbase wants because Iowa had that success with that type of play for so long. For the post that says it is too early to tell if Iowa has the right coach, Fran has come in and stirred the fans up and that is a good thing. Look at the recruits to far, Marble/Basabe/Cartwright/McCabe, huge contributors so far early in their careers. Iowa needs another quality shooter (Oglesby) and versatility (White) in recruiting. Fran brings excitement, enthusiasm and personality, something the last two coaches sorely lacked. In-game adjustments are another thing this staff knows how to do, different looks and trying to keep the other team off-balance, another thing the two previous coaches had no clue on how to do. Fran teaches and wants his players to play intelligently, again, something the two previous coaches lacked. This year has been interesting, they may not win a ton of games and I don't think any of us expect them too, but they are a team that plays hard and has a lot of inexperience. The experience they get this year will go a lot further than those 4/5-star recruits riding the pine this year in the Big Ten while their seniors get a lions share of the playing time. Iowa will be more prepared as a team with the experience and what this staff is teaching them going into next season. I love where the program is headed and this is only after ONE Big Ten game and I don't feel it is to early to tell the impact of what Fran has had on this Iowa program. It will be interesting to see how or if Iowa fills the two open scholarships for next season. If they fill both, look for some raw-skilled athletes to join Iowa and, here is a crazy thought, maybe a redshirt or two with the number of players Iowa will have returning. What is really different from the last two regimes is Iowa has a direction and a plan, under the two previous coaches, especially Alford, Iowa scrambled to get players on campus and it was a struggle to keep them out of trouble and on the court. Remember Alford had no more than 7 freshman graduate from Iowa, that is less than one per recruiting class.
 
sportstalent, WOW, you have a LOT to say on many topics!
You're not actually HomerHawkeye777, are you?!? :D
 
VintageHawkeye said:
sportstalent, WOW, you have a LOT to say on many topics!
You're not actually HomerHawkeye777, are you?!? :D
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No, I am not, but I have heard that guy is awesome:D
Anyway, living in Iowa at the start of Alford's career at Iowa and then moving to Michigan, there are two perspectives. The only thing I got out here about Iowa when Alford was there was breaking news: Iowa player arrested for you fill in the blank and I always wondered if Iowa was going to have an offseason where they didn't have a player or players arrested or get declared academically ineligible, guess what, they didn't...under Lickliter, it was just a wonder who was coming back because we all knew players were going to leave every offseason...I have been a very frustrated Hawkeye fan with our last two coaches and living in Michigan and basically Ohio, it has been a little irritating. Nothing but an underachieving program that can't graduate players when Iowa used to be so much more.:mad:
 
I don't see how anyone could argue that Iowa basketball had a much better all around quality program under Tom Davis. Alford brought the program down and Lickliter buried it. Here's to hoping Fran has resurrection powers flowing through his veins. So far I like what I see. GO HAWKS GO!!!
 
Couldn't agree more McHawkin. As I read what Mr. Davis did for Iowa basketball while he was here it felt like you were talking about a completly different basketball program. I had forgotten how successful Davis was. We went from an average of third or fourth place under Davis to an average to eight place under Alford, to an average of @#$!^ under Lickliter.
 
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sportstalent said:
I agree with you, but saying he left the program in better shape for Lickliter than Lickliter did for McCaffery isn't saying a whole lot. Look at the Iowa roster that was left and there were no real quality players, maybe Cyrus Tate, but he really played well against Michigan and average against anyone else. Yeah players came and went under Lickliter, but it wasn't much of full cupboard when he got there. Lickliter was just not the right coach to build Iowa back up, he didn't have to do that at Butler, they had been good for a while and he didn't have to do it anywhere else. That was his major fault, not knowing where to begin and missing out on some quality players like E'twuan Moore and JaJuan Johnson were his undoing. A lot of the players that left under Lickliter were not significant losses, the problem was he didn't get any better players when he got "do-overs" in recruiting. Whomever posted, what if we would have hired Fran in 2007 makes a valid point, even if it wasn't Fran, that is the style of coach Iowa needed. That type of hire just fits the Iowa personality and what the fanbase wants because Iowa had that success with that type of play for so long. For the post that says it is too early to tell if Iowa has the right coach, Fran has come in and stirred the fans up and that is a good thing. Look at the recruits to far, Marble/Basabe/Cartwright/McCabe, huge contributors so far early in their careers. Iowa needs another quality shooter (Oglesby) and versatility (White) in recruiting. Fran brings excitement, enthusiasm and personality, something the last two coaches sorely lacked. In-game adjustments are another thing this staff knows how to do, different looks and trying to keep the other team off-balance, another thing the two previous coaches had no clue on how to do. Fran teaches and wants his players to play intelligently, again, something the two previous coaches lacked. This year has been interesting, they may not win a ton of games and I don't think any of us expect them too, but they are a team that plays hard and has a lot of inexperience. The experience they get this year will go a lot further than those 4/5-star recruits riding the pine this year in the Big Ten while their seniors get a lions share of the playing time. Iowa will be more prepared as a team with the experience and what this staff is teaching them going into next season. I love where the program is headed and this is only after ONE Big Ten game and I don't feel it is to early to tell the impact of what Fran has had on this Iowa program. It will be interesting to see how or if Iowa fills the two open scholarships for next season. If they fill both, look for some raw-skilled athletes to join Iowa and, here is a crazy thought, maybe a redshirt or two with the number of players Iowa will have returning. What is really different from the last two regimes is Iowa has a direction and a plan, under the two previous coaches, especially Alford, Iowa scrambled to get players on campus and it was a struggle to keep them out of trouble and on the court. Remember Alford had no more than 7 freshman graduate from Iowa, that is less than one per recruiting class.
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+1
 
BigD said:
Alford brought the program down and Lickliter buried it.
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That pretty much says it all right there in 9 words. Well said.

In response to sportstalent, my comment about Alford leaving the program in better shape for Lickliter than Lickliter did for McCaffery was more in regards to the perception of the program moreso than what Lickliter inherited in actual talent. The team that Lickliter inherited wasn't very talented at all, no doubt. But it's interesting to speculate on what we may have had if Alford had been back the next year. Tyler Smith may or may not have transferred, who knows. But Hamga and Gary would have been on campus. Hamga was a 4-star recruit (not sure how he turned out at UNLV) and Gary has been a solid player at UNM. So that next team may not have been quite as depleted if Alford had stuck around. Coaching changes create some fallout though, so that was to be expected. Lickliter pretty much failed to fill that void left by the transfers and decommits. Lick's first class was mostly a bust.

Regardless, I'll bet we would have been hard-pressed to make the NIT if Alford would have been back for a 9th year, and he likely would have been canned at that point.

We regressed under Alford compared to the Davis era, but his last year we finished at 9-7 in conference and that was following two NCAA appearances. When Lickliter left.. We were coming off the worst stretch of hoops in school history, or close to it anyway. Perception of our program in 2010 had to have been worse than it was in '07.
 
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BigD said:
Couldn't agree more McHawkin. As I read what Mr. Davis did for Iowa basketball while he was here it felt like you were talking about a completly different basketball program. I had forgotten how successful Davis was. We went from an average of third or fourth place under Davis to an average to eight place under Alford, to an average of @#$!^ under Lickliter.
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You sure about that average of 8th under SA?
I know that we finished in 4th,6th,2nd and 4th in his last four years and I do not think we finished dead last in any year before that. Even if we finished in 10th the prior four years,that would average 7th place.
With SA we were in the hunt most years,only to have injuries and departures kill us in second halves of league games. Often we had like 6 scholly players due to injuires and departures. SA had his problems,but he has always had winning records,which is a foreign concept since he left.

Not missing him,but wish Barta had hired Fran back in 07.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
That pretty much says it all right there in 9 words. Well said.

In response to sportstalent, my comment about Alford leaving the program in better shape for Lickliter than Lickliter did for McCaffery was more in regards to the perception of the program moreso than what Lickliter inherited in actual talent. The team that Lickliter inherited wasn't very talented at all, no doubt. But it's interesting to speculate on what we may have had if Alford had been back the next year. Tyler Smith may or may not have transferred, who knows. But Hamga and Gary would have been on campus. Hamga was a 4-star recruit (not sure how he turned out at UNLV) and Gary has been a solid player at UNM. So that next team may not have been quite as depleted if Alford had stuck around. Coaching changes create some fallout though, so that was to be expected. Lickliter pretty much failed to fill that void left by the transfers and decommits. Lick's first class was mostly a bust.

Regardless, I'll bet we would have been hard-pressed to make the NIT if Alford would have been back for a 9th year, and he likely would have been canned at that point.

We regressed under Alford compared to the Davis era, but his last year we finished at 9-7 in conference and that was following two NCAA appearances. When Lickliter left.. We were coming off the worst stretch of hoops in school history, or close to it anyway. Perception of our program in 2010 had to have been worse than it was in '07.
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I don't disagree with you last point except that the perception of our program was terrible before Alford left. So many players not qualifying and all the arrests, it was percieved as a program with zero rules and just do whatever. Being in Michigan and bordering Ohio, all the BT fans I know thought Iowa was a laughing stock of the BT. The drama between Alford/Knight and then all the fighting between the players, just the whole situation. Lickliter was just simply not the right guy to change that perception, look at the players that were brought in and left. Had Iowa hired a similar coach to Fran when Alford left, we wouldn't have went to the full out downward spiral. Iowa was in a position to fail when Alford left, but a strong personality coach would have stemmed the tide a bit, but yes there would have been a period of turnover on the roster. The sad thing is, Freeman wouldn't have left and I don't think Peterson or Fuller either. On the other hand, would we have Cartwright/Basabe? I don't like where our program went, but I like where it is going.
The other thing, Gary would not have been at Iowa's campus he would have never been let in and Hamga was a player whose handlers have ruined his career. Also, I don't think Tyler Smith would have been there no matter what coach was there.
 
We can't get this season started soon enough!!!!!! I hope and believe that by the end of this season and next season we will have completely forgotten about the former two coaches...... What's their names again???
 
BigD said:
We can't get this season started soon enough!!!!!! I hope and believe that by the end of this season and next season we will have completely forgotten about the former two coaches...... What's their names again???
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Steve Alford and Todd Lickliter. I can tell you're not a Hawkeye basketball fan with that kind of question.
 
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