Heat Directed at JVB

[JonDMiller]

OSU's backup yesterday lead them on a game tying drive and made the 2-point conversion and won in over-time.

Vandy nearly led Iowa to a win in the Shoe against the Big Ten champs. A backup being ready means they are ready to take over the team. There are few, if any, backups in the B1G who step in and the team stays the same or gets better. Stave from Wisky hasn't hurt them but he's designed to not turn it over and hand it off. Kenny Guiton is no where near Braxton Miller. They are not close to the same offense without Miller.

Purdue doesn have any idea who their one is. If Denard Robinson or T Magic goes down those offenses are screwed for the year. Minnesota hasn't won a game since Gray went down. MSU has had reason to look to backup but haven't. Indiana isn't as dangerous without Roberson as they would have been with him. No idea who is behind McGloin. Illinois has O'Toole behind Scheelhasse and he clearly isn't the answer because Nate has struggled mightily.

So no, every team except Iowa doesn't have a backup ready to win games.

 

[JonDMiller]

Depends how you define "ready", right? In the context of the Hawks, the baseline for "ready" would be better than Vandy. A quick glance at season stats shows that OSU, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, and Wisky have a back up QB that has come in and done better than the Vandy standard.

What in the world is gained by talking about other teams backups related to the performance of Iowa's starter? They for play for Iowa....and there ain't a whole lotta wins in there for games they've started outside of Stave but he's just stayin out of the way and isn't expected to win games for them

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Vandy nearly led Iowa to a win in the Shoe against the Big Ten champs. A backup being ready means they are ready to take over the team. There are few, if any, backups in the B1G who step in and the team stays the same or gets better. Stave from Wisky hasn't hurt them but he's designed to not turn it over and hand it off. Kenny Guiton is no where near Braxton Miller. They are not close to the same offense without Miller.

Purdue doesn have any idea who their one is. If Denard Robinson or T Magic goes down those offenses are screwed for the year. Minnesota hasn't won a game since Gray went down. MSU has had reason to look to backup but haven't. Indiana isn't as dangerous without Roberson as they would have been with him. No idea who is behind McGloin. Illinois has O'Toole behind Scheelhasse and he clearly isn't the answer because Nate has struggled mightily.

So no, every team except Iowa doesn't have a backup ready to win games.

Do we have a backup ready to play mop up duty? Because that's really what it's about, if Ruddock really isn't ready to play when we're down 38 then we should probably pull his scholarship after the season so he's not wasting a roster spot for 3 more years.

 

[tm3308]

Please name them. Lets just stick in the Big Ten.

Illinois: Scheelhaase, O'Toole
Indiana: Coffman/Sudfield/Roberson (all have at least 50 attempts and ratings of 124.9 or better)
Minnesota: Gray/Shortell
Ohio State: Miller/Guiton
Northwestern: Colter/Siemian
Purdue: TerBush/Marve
Wisconsin: Stave/O'Brien (Biels pulled the trigger on Stave a while back, and have played well since)

Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska and Michigan State have all used their starters almost exclusively. Ohio State would also be on this list if Miller hadn't gotten hurt.

BUT, Guiton demonstrated he's capable with his performance yesterday. The other backups may be capable, too. But they haven't really been needed.

Iowa is the ONLY Big Ten team whose backup QB has logged ZERO PT this year.

 

[Cover3]

I think the standard for 'ready' is servicability. Obviously there are few or zero backups who are objectively better than the starter in front of them, and few people here are arguing that Rudock is better than Vandenberg. However, almost all of the teams Jon just mentioned have gotten decent minutes, good looks, new looks, and/or non-catastrophic performances out of their backups. Historically, Iowa cannot make that claim. Jason Manson was totally ineffectual any time Tate got injured, and Vandenberg was 9/27 for 82 yards against NW before his 'legendary' performance at the 'Shoe, suggesting that maybe had he gotten a few more snaps with the first teamers before the NW game, he may have been 'ready' (aka servicable) sooner.

 

[rickyrudd1]

if Jake Rudock were anywhere near JVB, he would have probably played already.

I have no confidence that this is true. And if it is true, and our starting QB is terrible, plus ALL of the backup QBs are so much worse that they can't even be trusted in the 2nd half of a blowout loss, then there really isn't any hope for the offense for the future.

 

[tm3308]

Vandy nearly led Iowa to a win in the Shoe against the Big Ten champs. A backup being ready means they are ready to take over the team. There are few, if any, backups in the B1G who step in and the team stays the same or gets better. Stave from Wisky hasn't hurt them but he's designed to not turn it over and hand it off. Kenny Guiton is no where near Braxton Miller. They are not close to the same offense without Miller.

Purdue doesn have any idea who their one is. If Denard Robinson or T Magic goes down those offenses are screwed for the year. Minnesota hasn't won a game since Gray went down. MSU has had reason to look to backup but haven't. Indiana isn't as dangerous without Roberson as they would have been with him. No idea who is behind McGloin. Illinois has O'Toole behind Scheelhasse and he clearly isn't the answer because Nate has struggled mightily.

So no, every team except Iowa doesn't have a backup ready to win games.

Sure, the backups aren't ready to win games. But people weren't wishing for Rudock last night with hopes that he would somehow win the game. I find it exceptionally hard to believe that Iowa has NO ONE ready enough to get reps in a game like that. If that's actually true, then Iowa has much bigger problems going forward.

 

[Cover3]

Sure, the backups aren't ready to win games. But people weren't wishing for Rudock last night with hopes that he would somehow win the game. I find it exceptionally hard to believe that Iowa has NO ONE ready enough to get reps in a game like that. If that's actually true, then Iowa has much bigger problems going forward.

This.

And it goes back to my definition of 'ready' on the previous page of this thread. If Rudock can handle a snap, check down, hand off, and possibly throw the ball away, then he's 'ready' for purposes of getting reps in a blowout, and I don't want to hear ANYTHING from Kirk next year about the inexperience at QB.

 

[gohawkz]

Please name them. Lets just stick in the Big Ten.

Teams that have played their backup quarterback this year:

Minnesota
Nebraska
Purdue
Indiana
Illinois
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Northwestern

Teams that haven't played their backup at all:

Iowa


*edit, Sorry, I didn't see the post where tm3308 had mentioned this fact, but it bears repeating.

 

[Cover3]

Teams that have played their backup quarterback this year:

Minnesota
Nebraska
Purdue
Indiana
Illinois
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Northwestern

Teams that haven't played their backup at all:

Iowa

This is pretty damning given the context we're all saying Rudock should have seen time last night.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Illinois: Scheelhaase, O'Toole
Indiana: Coffman/Sudfield/Roberson (all have at least 50 attempts and ratings of 124.9 or better)
Minnesota: Gray/Shortell
Ohio State: Miller/Guiton
Northwestern: Colter/Siemian
Purdue: TerBush/Marve
Wisconsin: Stave/O'Brien (Biels pulled the trigger on Stave a while back, and have played well since)

Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska and Michigan State have all used their starters almost exclusively. Ohio State would also be on this list if Miller hadn't gotten hurt.

BUT, Guiton demonstrated he's capable with his performance yesterday. The other backups may be capable, too. But they haven't really been needed.

Iowa is the ONLY Big Ten team whose backup QB has logged ZERO PT this year.

Thanks was just going to post something similiar.

I'm not buying the Iowa doesn't have someone that is capable. No way!!!!

 

[UweBlab]

Sure, the backups aren't ready to win games. But people weren't wishing for Rudock last night with hopes that he would somehow win the game. I find it exceptionally hard to believe that Iowa has NO ONE ready enough to get reps in a game like that. If that's actually true, then Iowa has much bigger problems going forward.

Nail on the head.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can defend Ferentz on this. This is getting a bit like the Little League coach who plays his son James at pitcher every game and they give up run after run. And everyone watching knows little Jake can also pitch, and the new kid Cody was also a pitcher before he moved to town. But good ol' Coach/ Dad won't play anyone else but his son.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Nail on the head.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can defend Ferentz on this. This is getting a bit like the Little League coach who plays his son James at pitcher every game and they give up run after run. And everyone watching knows little Jake can also pitch, and the new kid Cody was also a pitcher before he moved to town. But good ol' Coach/ Dad won't play anyone else but his son.

Nobody on here should..

 

[STILLBUSTER]

Bottom line is, I don't hear anyone trying to argue Jake or Cody are better able to take over the team than JVB. Anyone who does is speculating because there's been no opportunity to collect evidence. I am hearing, myself included, that,
1) Ready or not, these guys are the future of the Hawks, so, let's try to get them a bit MORE ready.
2) Given the over- (under-) whelming evidence of how horrible JVB has performed, are they really that much more horrible that the results would be any different? After all, a loss is a loss and what's the difference between horrible and more horrible? The ONLY risk is simply getting them some significant reps as an investment for when they HAVE to execute and lead the team.

There is absolutely zero downside.

 

[coralville]

I am calling BS. Ruduck probably played with and against as much talent as a prep in Florida and he could do it. Minny even started a true freshman QB yesterday. Kirk plays favorites- obvious to all now that cotton should have played earlier. Would wiseman even get a sniff without injuries? No

 

[BigD]

I don't believe it when it is said our backup QB isn't ready.....look at last year. A J Derby was #2, and the staff felt confident enough to move him to LB because they had sufficient talent (Rudock) for the future. Weinke also sees the writing on the wall that he is not gonna over take JVB or Rudock, so he finds another position to contribute at.
So Rudock or Sokol must be prepared, ready, good enough to push these other backups out of the position, and one to another team.
It is because of this that I don't believe Rudock isn't ready. Must be something else. Ferentz is too stubborn and loyal to the invested Iowa boy.
If we are not careful, Jake will go back to a Florida school and become successful.

The personnel decisions are questionable. He finally gave Nico a chance last night. Look how long it took them to get Cotton opportunities to be involved, and look at the quick results. Then look at how many TBs had to be eliminated before Weisman got a chance.

Excellent point as Weisman would still be sitting if not for others getting injured. What the hell is going on here???

 

[NCHawker]

Please name them. Lets just stick in the Big Ten.

Michigan, Ohio State, Minnesota and it need not be restricted to big ten. Didn't indiana lose their QB and they've been pretty productive on offense.

Notre Dame has 2 guys who can play.

 

[BigD]

No doubt if JV had another year of eligibility Rudock would leave Iowa and who in the hell could blame him?

 

[g11]

Throwing a QB into the fire before he's ready can crush them. I'm fine with seeing JR against a weaker defense, but throwing him in there last night would of been a pretty terrible idea.

(I personally think he should of seen time against Minnesota.)

Going forward, I wouldn't mind seeing the #1 get opened up in practice. At the very least, it will end any controversy like many of you have in this thread. Hey, it may even put a bit of fire under JVB who knows. Not that I think it would matter.. He has pretty much shown us he can't manage short throws all year.

 

[kicker22]

I agree with this. I don't think it's a hatred for James, its the fact that he's been playing horribly and continue to gets the snaps. Of course we're upset at the Captain for allowing this to happen, but the fact is when it's James taking the snaps there's no way to divert all the anger away from James. He's a great kid, but unfortunately he's still the individual thats not producing and regardless of what we people think of GD or KF, there's no way there going to take all the heat for James play or lack there of.