Hawks vs. The Little Lions Game Thread

[InGoodCo]

What part of what I said makes you think I think that? I honestly don't to the extent that I think you're getting at. I mean I just mentioned how he's only been playing 24 mins a game tops usually. If he was playing 30 plus then yeah that'd be a different story. But it's not like Fran has a ton of other options. Dembele and Sandfort are true freshmen they'd have to be pretty damn good to unseat him and they aren't that's fine.

Unless there was another player(s) who realistically could take those mins from PM and be better we can't really speak to how if Fran has a blind spot for his kid. But I know he doesn't. He's showed that with CM before PM too. He didn't play him too much either. Who starts and who doesn't is kind of an over rated thing anyway. It's who's playing the most mins and in crunch time situationally that matters. Rarely at the end of close games has Fran done a poor job of that he's dang good at that frankly.

See, when you say things like the following, to me, you are stating an indictment on Fran for not having a better option prepared to play at the beginning of the year and being forced to lean on Patrick.

He was a big part of the reason they dug the hole they can't get out of to get in tourny.
It's not his fault his dad plays him so much
Well PMs PT isn't all on him no of course not. It's on his Dad and the roster being what it is.

To me, that says, Patrick shouldn't be playing as much as his dad plays him, it's his dad's fault were in this spot and Pat's probably the reason we aren't going to dance this year. If I read that wrong, then that's on me, but again, that's how I read those statements.

I think Pat has not been great this year, so much that I wanted him benched before he was injurred. I think when Pat went out of the line up, it changed the season around quite a bit because it forced Fran's hand. I totally agree with you, I just don't think Fran had a lot of options early in the year and there wasn't much else we could do but let the team grow. I like Pat playing 15-20 a game and I definitely like him at the end of games. He can be trusted with the ball, to hit his FT's and also, he seems to make a clutch play when things are on the line where you're like "NO PAT, don't shoot tha....Oh, he nailed it'

 

[InGoodCo]

Fran's lineups in the first half of the season drove me FUCKING crazy. Like, the hockey line up changes and going with that second team all the way through January. That LIKELY cost Iowa some games, but I hate to say it, the gamble might have paid off? Or could pay off as a ton of those guys who were on that 2nd team are now contributing to the bulk of our scoring and minutes the last quarter of the year.

 

[HuckFinn]

PM is a bit of a mystery. He rarely has turnovers. He is actually quite strong on D. Even though he is tall, he guards the perimeter very well. Obviously about as good from the free throw line as you can get, even in pressure situations. He certainly works hard.

His down side to me is that he disappears. Kind of seems to just hang around. He looks good when he shoots 3 point shots, but does not take many. His shot selection off the bounce is strange, to be sure. He gets open, drives hard to the basket, but misses too often. Plain and simple. Not physical, and this basketball world is very rough. But, as several have mentioned above, he has come through with some great O at key times.

Quite frankly, I fear we came to expect more than PM can produce. He had cancer. He had a really rough time adjusting to meds. Likely still an issue at some level. Thyroid issues are nothing to be minimized. He has had an ailment all too common for athletes in the big time sports: That would be anxiety, which can be crippling. This season he had some kind of extended illness. We have no idea what it was. He had an ankle sprain that swelled up to the size of a baseball. He kept trying to play, but just could not. If we can’t give him a long leash, we must be pretty insensitive, I think.

Lastly, anyone who believes Fran is doing favors for his kid has never coached his own kid, has likely never coached at all, and is a big fan of picking low hanging fruit. Just stop the nonsense. Most of the HN posters are laughing at you.

 

[PCHawk]

His play hasn't been all that good. Easy to call a spade a spade, I think you just went a step too far really. You kind of dumped the whole early season on him in your previous post and eluded that he plays because his dad refuses to put the team in the best position to win games. Iowa has had a lot of attrition in that 3/4 spot over the last few years, Fran runs a developmental program. The fact that he's gotten this team in the position it is, to me personally, is commendable and a pretty good job of coaching. You make it sound like you think that's an indictment and that he plays his kid at the expense of the program. I feel confident no one wants to win Iowa basketball games more than Fran.

Keegan and Kris could be seniors this year. Imagine that team. Perkins, Sandfort, Keegan, Kris, Freeman. I get that nost teams have to deal with early departures. But most of those teams reload with 5 stars. If we had the Murray twins this year, in the Big 10, we'd probably be a 1 seed in the NCAA. That said, we'd obviously also find a way to finish 2nd to Purdue for a regular season championship....

 

[InGoodCo]

Keegan and Kris could be seniors this year. Imagine that team. Perkins, Sandfort, Keegan, Kris, Freeman. I get that nost teams have to deal with early departures. But most of those teams reload with 5 stars. If we had the Murray twins this year, in the Big 10, we'd probably be a 1 seed in the NCAA. That said, we'd obviously also find a way to finish 2nd to Purdue for a regular season championship....

Right, that's always been one of my biggest Fran kudos, he typically loses one of his best players or his BEST player every season that still has eligibility remaining to either the NBA (Keegan, Kris, Cook, Wiesy) - or bluebloods like Kentucky or KS (CJF, MOSS). If this was Mr. Davis or Lute's time, none of those kids would have transferred or left early for the NBA, it's just not how it worked backed then. Making what Fran does all that more impressive to me and something I don't think nearly enough people take into consideration.

 

[PCHawk]

Right, that's always been one of my biggest Fran kudos, he typically loses one of his best players or his BEST player every season that still has eligibility remaining to either the NBA (Keegan, Kris, Cook, Wiesy) - or bluebloods like Kentucky or KS (CJF, MOSS). If this was Mr. Davis or Lute's time, none of those kids would have transferred or left early for the NBA, it's just not how it worked backed then. Making what Fran does all that more impressive to me and something I don't think nearly enough people take into consideration.

We've missed out on a lot of wins from guys leaving early.

 

[thedukeofearl]

For anyone that is interested in team and individual statistics for the current season here is a link. In the PSU game Iowa starters outscored the PSU starters significantly. PSU's bench performed almost as well as the PSU starters. Iowa's bench actually did a little better scoring than in previous games. Last night they had 16 points an usually average 11.

I didn't think Fran's substitution lineups were the best. The defense by them wasn't the best. It allowed PSU to stay in the game.

I thought the same thing but then the starters were fresh when they came back

 

[Hawkfnntn]

See, when you say things like the following, to me, you are stating an indictment on Fran for not having a better option prepared to play at the beginning of the year and being forced to lean on Patrick.

He was a big part of the reason they dug the hole they can't get out of to get in tourny.
It's not his fault his dad plays him so much
Well PMs PT isn't all on him no of course not. It's on his Dad and the roster being what it is.

To me, that says, Patrick shouldn't be playing as much as his dad plays him, it's his dad's fault were in this spot and Pat's probably the reason we aren't going to dance this year. If I read that wrong, then that's on me, but again, that's how I read those statements.

I think Pat has not been great this year, so much that I wanted him benched before he was injurred. I think when Pat went out of the line up, it changed the season around quite a bit because it forced Fran's hand. I totally agree with you, I just don't think Fran had a lot of options early in the year and there wasn't much else we could do but let the team grow. I like Pat playing 15-20 a game and I definitely like him at the end of games. He can be trusted with the ball, to hit his FT's and also, he seems to make a clutch play when things are on the line where you're like "NO PAT, don't shoot tha....Oh, he nailed it'

I do feel like he was a big part of it. Not the only one by any means but a big part. I feel like Krikkes play dropped off as BIG play got going compared to earlier on. Sandfort had his share of off shooting games. You can go right down the list. Freeman had some games he got in foul trouble and that domino effected PMs PT as well so that's not on Fran so much.

This part of what I'd been speaking too just so happened to have been about PM. And yeah if not Fran who is responsible for playing time distribution? End of the day the roster is all on Fran. Circumstances change as yr goes on guys get better, guys get worse, guys get hurt etc etc. Frans tightened up the rotations and played less guys the last 3 wks or so. And it's helped win games.

 

[InGoodCo]

I do feel like he was a big part of it. Not the only one by any means but a big part. I feel like Krikkes play dropped off as BIG play got going compared to earlier on. Sandfort had his share of off shooting games. You can go right down the list. Freeman had some games he got in foul trouble and that domino effected PMs PT as well so that's not on Fran so much.

This part of what I'd been speaking too just so happened to have been about PM. And yeah if not Fran who is responsible for playing time distribution? End of the day the roster is all on Fran. Circumstances change as yr goes on guys get better, guys get worse, guys get hurt etc etc. Frans tightened up the rotations and played less guys the last 3 wks or so. And it's helped win games.

It's remarkable how better our defense gets and plays when Krikke goes to the bench and Pat comes in. I am not saying he's some D machine or something, but he definitely effects that and it changes things. I don't know if it's his length or he's just faster and a better perimeter defender because of his length, but it's night and day.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

It's remarkable how better our defense gets and plays when Krikke goes to the bench and Pat comes in. I am not saying he's some D machine or something, but he definitely effects that and it changes things. I don't know if it's his length or he's just faster and a better perimeter defender because of his length, but it's night and day.

Yeah Krikke is a poor defender. He's so slow laterally and he can't jump. PM isn't the greatest either but he's way more athletic comparatively. He knows how to rotate and switch within the scheme of what they are doing. Iowa plays multiple defenses and I could see a learning curve with that for a 1st yr guy in Krikke to PM who's been around forever too. But even if he Krikke did know the D inside out and was confident in it being able to guard guys straight up is a problem for him.

 

[Chickenlounge]

It's remarkable how better our defense gets and plays when Krikke goes to the bench and Pat comes in. I am not saying he's some D machine or something, but he definitely effects that and it changes things. I don't know if it's his length or he's just faster and a better perimeter defender because of his length, but it's night and day.

I think one of PM's greatest additions is when we press. He's so long and quick with good instincts, that he disrupts lots of passing lanes for the opposing offense trying to get it up the floor. May be one of the reasons he gets so much playing time towards the end when Fran likes to press. Just my $0.02 having never played, coached, or really studied the game. I'm just a fan.

 

[HuckFinn]

I think one of PM's greatest additions is when we press. He's so long and quick with good instincts, that he disrupts lots of passing lanes for the opposing offense trying to get it up the floor. May be one of the reasons he gets so much playing time towards the end when Fran likes to press. Just my $0.02 having never played, coached, or really studied the game. I'm just a fan.

Good call!