Hawks better off in NIT this year

Respectfully, OKFP, I do think the NIT is a pretty big deal. We all know that there are many teams in the NCAA tournament that are NOT in the top 64 in the country. In short, there are a number of NCAA tourney teams that Iowa would likely beat on a neutral court. So, if follows that the teams invited into the NIT are teams that may well be much better teams than a number of teams in the NCAA. Yeah, I want Iowa in the NCAA as often as possible, whether as a 13th seed or a 1 seed. But, I think from a logical standpoint you underestimate the NIT.

By the way, you took a shot at Iowa earlier, saying that in effect, "...one snowflake don't make a blizzard" in regard to their shooting, especially from 3. Fact: In the three NIT games, Iowa is 22 of 55 from 3 for a 40% average. Just sayin'.
 


kicker22 said:
I think there's a fine line between football and basketball, but IMO to a basketball team as young as ours I think it only helps them prepare for the future.
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How do you know it doesn't hurt them? The players will all be different guys next year after they spend some time in the Prime Time League and develop further.
 


doclee said:
Respectfully, OKFP, I do think the NIT is a pretty big deal. We all know that there are many teams in the NCAA tournament that are NOT in the top 64 in the country. In short, there are a number of NCAA tourney teams that Iowa would likely beat on a neutral court. So, if follows that the teams invited into the NIT are teams that may well be much better teams than a number of teams in the NCAA. Yeah, I want Iowa in the NCAA as often as possible, whether as a 13th seed or a 1 seed. But, I think from a logical standpoint you underestimate the NIT.

By the way, you took a shot at Iowa earlier, saying that in effect, "...one snowflake don't make a blizzard" in regard to their shooting, especially from 3. Fact: In the three NIT games, Iowa is 22 of 55 from 3 for a 40% average. Just sayin'.
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I predicted earlier this team would get hot in March. The thread is on this forum. 40% average where we had one great shooting game and played two teams that would be competing with Northwestern and Penn State for last in the conference just doesn't impress me.
 


kicker22 said:
Maybe I'm foolish, but I can't understand those that say it would mean more to be invited to a tournament and get pummeled in the first round (not saying we would have) and then use that as a major accomplishment, rather than winning another tournament. IMO an invitation to the Dance is nothing more than an invitation to the dance. While it's a pretty accomplishment, it would mean more to me to win 5 games in another tournament.

I simply don't understand those that bash mid-major programs or lesser known conference teams ( ie...Florida Gulf Coast, Albany, and St. Mary's) and play the "they don't belong in the tourament card" before their first game is even played but then say it would be better to be one and done then go to the NIT. IMO when we belittle teams that get to the dance and then fidn themselves making a first round exit the consensus is they don't belong in the tournament. So whats the difference. No one thinks those teams deserved to be there ahead of time but then suddenly we feel it makes our program relevant to simply be invited? Don't understand the logic. Florida Gulf Coast is getting the credit and recognition they're getting because they earned it, not because they were lucky enough to be invited. I simply don't believe that all of a sudden iowa's program becomes validated at a national level if they get a bid. I think winning any tournament holds more value then being invited to one.
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I disagree with much of what you said. My position on this is post #35...no reason to rehash what I've already said. I will say that an invitation to the NIT is just an invitation to the NIT. It's nothing more until a team makes it more. The same is true of the NCAA. To say this NIT run is better without knowing what would have happened in the NCAA makes zero sense IMO.
 


SpiderRico said:
I think you need to put this in context to what's been happening with Iowa basketball since the miracle shot by NW St in the 2006 tourney. This season doesn't just stand alone in a vacuum. If we were talking about a "typical" Iowa team pre-Alford, then yes, an NIT berth is a disappointment....no doubt. But given what this program has gone through over the last 14 years, I don't think there's anything wrong with fans being excited about an NIT run and thinking that, possibly, because of the youth on this team and the issues with the program simply needing to learn how to win again, that a deep run in the NIT is probably more beneficial than a one and done in the NCAAs.

Now, next year is a whole different story. We now have 3 years of exponential growth in attendance, talent, wins, etc. A 3rd NIT berth would be completely unacceptable given the talent returning and the trajectory arc of the past 3 years.

Just let the fans have their fun and enjoy the opportunity to watch this fun basketball team with great kids head to MSG with a chance to finally win something of significance rather than just peeing in their cheerios.
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Please read the title of the thread. We are NEVER "better off" with NIT than NCAA. We may make deeper run/get more victories in NIT. We may even come home with a "trophy". Great. Super.

I have NOT said, "Do NOT enjoy this NIT run" or, "This NIT run is worthless". But this NIT run is not--and will never be--"better" than an NCAA bid.

I am happy for the players, especially senior Eric May. I am glad the younger players are getting tournament-type experience. But I would ALWAYS rather be in the NCAA tournament.

You mention the past 14 years. Great "context". Funny, when I mention pre-Hayden Fry, or even early Hayden Fry years, and put it in "context", it's amazing how many of these same posters are "tired" of hearing it, and think "Kirt/Kurt/Ferrets" absolutely "sucks".

Amazing that the some of the very same people who act like 2009 was pre-Civil War, football-wise, act like a second year in the NIT is "glory" and "comeback".

Yes, this team/program is back and on the rise. But it's still the NIT. Sort of like winning the Insight Bowl over Missouri was still "just" the Insight Bowl and 2010 was a "major disappointment". I remember when bowl games were NOT a given. But, I also remember when NCAA bids WERE a given.
 


ssckelley said:
So we should all be hanging our heads in shame? Screw that, I am enjoying this ride but that does not mean I am settling for NIT invites. I wanted the Hawks in the NCAA tournament this season, it did not happen, but instead of crying over it the team is playing with a chip on their shoulder. If next year rolls around and we are back in the NIT with Marble, Basabe, and McCabe as seniors then those "Pavlov's Dogs" will be a small pack.
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Of course we shouldn't be hanging our heads in shame. Sheesh!
 


hawkeyebob62 said:
Look, I "get" that we are enjoying a nice NIT run. I "get" that it means more games, experience, etc. But, PLEASE, let's not let an NIT "run" lull us into thinking it is EVER preferrable to an NCAA bid. Ever.
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And I bet the players feel this way moreso than any fan. However, the emotions are not mutually exclusive. I would prefer they got the NCAA bid, disappointed they didn't (or that they didn't secure a couple of more wins during the season to get the bid), but I am enjoying the heck out of watching them still playing, and winning; no need to temper the enthusiasm because it's not the NCAA tourney.
 


hawkeyebob62 said:
Please read the title of the thread. We are NEVER "better off" with NIT than NCAA. We may make deeper run/get more victories in NIT. We may even come home with a "trophy". Great. Super.

I have NOT said, "Do NOT enjoy this NIT run" or, "This NIT run is worthless". But this NIT run is not--and will never be--"better" than an NCAA bid.

I am happy for the players, especially senior Eric May. I am glad the younger players are getting tournament-type experience. But I would ALWAYS rather be in the NCAA tournament.

You mention the past 14 years. Great "context". Funny, when I mention pre-Hayden Fry, or even early Hayden Fry years, and put it in "context", it's amazing how many of these same posters are "tired" of hearing it, and think "Kirt/Kurt/Ferrets" absolutely "sucks".

Amazing that the some of the very same people who act like 2009 was pre-Civil War, football-wise, act like a second year in the NIT is "glory" and "comeback".

Yes, this team/program is back and on the rise. But it's still the NIT. Sort of like winning the Insight Bowl over Missouri was still "just" the Insight Bowl and 2010 was a "major disappointment". I remember when bowl games were NOT a given. But, I also remember when NCAA bids WERE a given.
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And with that, bob just won the thread.
 


bob62, not going to quote all of that but you are missing the point of Torks article and some of the posts here. No one is satisfied with being in the NIT and I am sure all of us were crossing our fingers on selection Sunday, hoping for that NCAA invite. But there are some advantages to being in the NIT that they may not have gotten in the NCAA tournament. The extra games are nice, the extra practices help, but going on the road and beating an ACC school gets a huge monkey off their back. Woodbury's & Olaseni's development, Marbles amazing run, heck just knocking down more than 1/2 their 3 point attempts on the road will go a long ways next season. Just the fact that Virginia went on a roll, took the lead, and Iowa was able to recompose themselves and put the away was huge. I doubt Iowa would have accomplished any of this with a 1 and done NCAA tournament appearance. Granted there is always that chance Iowa could have done all of this in the NCAA tournament, perhaps we would all be looking forward to a Sweet 16 game tonight or tomorrow but who knows. Iowa got selected to play in the NIT, you might as well take those lemons and make lemonade.
 


ssckelley said:
bob62, not going to quote all of that but you are missing the point of Torks article and some of the posts here. No one is satisfied with being in the NIT and I am sure all of us were crossing our fingers on selection Sunday, hoping for that NCAA invite. But there are some advantages to being in the NIT that they may not have gotten in the NCAA tournament. The extra games are nice, the extra practices help, but going on the road and beating an ACC school gets a huge monkey off their back. Woodbury's & Olaseni's development, Marbles amazing run, heck just knocking down more than 1/2 their 3 point attempts on the road will go a long ways next season. Just the fact that Virginia went on a roll, took the lead, and Iowa was able to recompose themselves and put the away was huge. I doubt Iowa would have accomplished any of this with a 1 and done NCAA tournament appearance. Granted there is always that chance Iowa could have done all of this in the NCAA tournament, perhaps we would all be looking forward to a Sweet 16 game tonight or tomorrow but who knows. Iowa got selected to play in the NIT, you might as well take those lemons and make lemonade.
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It's starting to warm up outside and I really like lemonade!
 




ssckelley said:
bob62, not going to quote all of that but you are missing the point of Torks article and some of the posts here. No one is satisfied with being in the NIT and I am sure all of us were crossing our fingers on selection Sunday, hoping for that NCAA invite. But there are some advantages to being in the NIT that they may not have gotten in the NCAA tournament. The extra games are nice, the extra practices help, but going on the road and beating an ACC school gets a huge monkey off their back. Woodbury's & Olaseni's development, Marbles amazing run, heck just knocking down more than 1/2 their 3 point attempts on the road will go a long ways next season. Just the fact that Virginia went on a roll, took the lead, and Iowa was able to recompose themselves and put the away was huge. I doubt Iowa would have accomplished any of this with a 1 and done NCAA tournament appearance. Granted there is always that chance Iowa could have done all of this in the NCAA tournament, perhaps we would all be looking forward to a Sweet 16 game tonight or tomorrow but who knows. Iowa got selected to play in the NIT, you might as well take those lemons and make lemonade.
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This. What the team has learned and developed, IMO, would have been unlikely to be accomplished had they reached the NCAA tourney. For one thing, receiving that bid would have required them to have already learned that lesson (and thus gotten a couple of those wins against the top teams). But they also wouldn't have had as good of a chance to win 3 games in the NCAA's.

You have to crawl (last year's NIT berth) before you can walk (what they've taken from this year's berth). And you have to walk before you can run (advance in the NCAA's).
 


tm3308 said:
This. What the team has learned and developed, IMO, would have been unlikely to be accomplished had they reached the NCAA tourney. For one thing, receiving that bid would have required them to have already learned that lesson (and thus gotten a couple of those wins against the top teams). But they also wouldn't have had as good of a chance to win 3 games in the NCAA's.

You have to crawl (last year's NIT berth) before you can walk (what they've taken from this year's berth). And you have to walk before you can run (advance in the NCAA's).
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Again, dude, if this team didn't KNOW that they needed to make key free throws at the end of games then Fran should be fired. They learned nothing, they just executed on a good shooting night. And they played two dog crap teams. Nothing learned, man.

I presume you NIT lovers would be happy if Gesell further injured himself by playing. Or if Woodbury tore an ACL in the game against Maryland. I mean, we're out there learning, so nothing bad can come of it, right? I just think the perceived upside that you guys are seeing isn't really that big and there is a heckuva lot of downside. It was no mistake Calipari got his boys out of the NIT and back home as quickly as he could.
 


okeefe4prez said:
Again, dude, if this team didn't KNOW that they needed to make key free throws at the end of games then Fran should be fired. They learned nothing, they just executed on a good shooting night. And they played two dog crap teams. Nothing learned, man.

I presume you NIT lovers would be happy if Gesell further injured himself by playing. Or if Woodbury tore an ACL in the game against Maryland. I mean, we're out there learning, so nothing bad can come of it, right? I just think the perceived upside that you guys are seeing isn't really that big and there is a heckuva lot of downside. It was no mistake Calipari got his boys out of the NIT and back home as quickly as he could.
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Either of these things could have happened in a first round NCAA loss too. The argument that there is more downside than upside to an NIT run is laughable.
 


hawkeyebob62 said:
Please read the title of the thread. We are NEVER "better off" with NIT than NCAA. We may make deeper run/get more victories in NIT. We may even come home with a "trophy". Great. Super.

I have NOT said, "Do NOT enjoy this NIT run" or, "This NIT run is worthless". But this NIT run is not--and will never be--"better" than an NCAA bid.

I am happy for the players, especially senior Eric May. I am glad the younger players are getting tournament-type experience. But I would ALWAYS rather be in the NCAA tournament.

You mention the past 14 years. Great "context". Funny, when I mention pre-Hayden Fry, or even early Hayden Fry years, and put it in "context", it's amazing how many of these same posters are "tired" of hearing it, and think "Kirt/Kurt/Ferrets" absolutely "sucks".

Amazing that the some of the very same people who act like 2009 was pre-Civil War, football-wise, act like a second year in the NIT is "glory" and "comeback".

Yes, this team/program is back and on the rise. But it's still the NIT. Sort of like winning the Insight Bowl over Missouri was still "just" the Insight Bowl and 2010 was a "major disappointment". I remember when bowl games were NOT a given. But, I also remember when NCAA bids WERE a given.
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I guess I disagree with you....no harm in that.

I think there are times when an individual or team can be better off with "failure" (failure to make the NCAAs), than "success" (getting a disputed spot in the NCAA's). Often times, a person can learn more about themselves through failure than they can success. Does anyone LIKE to fail? Hell no. But there is no denying the fact that "failure" often times is a springboard for future success that could not have been acheived without the initial failure. History is replete with this.

This team has made me proud by taking their failure of making the NCAAs in stride and choosing to make the most of the opportunity that the failure provided them.

In the end, for this team, at this time, I think the Hawks were better off in the NIT this year.

Just one man's opinion.....
 


hawkfan33 said:
Either of these things could have happened in a first round NCAA loss too. The argument that there is more downside than upside to an NIT run is laughable.
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No kidding. Take butthurt of Ronnie Lester injury and multiply by 1 million if it happened to a promising player in the NIT, though. That gives you some historical context.
 


okeefe4prez said:
No kidding. Take butthurt of Ronnie Lester injury and multiply by 1 million if it happened to a promising player in the NIT, though. That gives you some historical context.
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If only there had been some medical advances made in the last 35 years, instead Gesell is going to plagued with this injury for the rest of the year. Hopefully he can still live a productive life after basketball now.
 


This thread is full of some real good points on both sides. I have been leaning to choosing this NIT run over a one and done, but that is all selfish because I am having so much fun watching them play and don't want it to end.

But are they really learning anything? It's debatable.....maybe law of shooting averages are just coming back around for them.

Good stuff!
 




JonDMiller said:
This thread is full of some real good points on both sides. I have been leaning to choosing this NIT run over a one and done, but that is all selfish because I am having so much fun watching them play and don't want it to end.

But are they really learning anything? It's debatable.....maybe law of shooting averages are just coming back around for them.

Good stuff!
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You should recall from your statistics class that there is no such law. :)
 


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