MiniMoeHawk
Well-Known Member
Or they get more playing time somewhere else. Maybe they didn't feel like sharing their minutes with 8 or 9 other people.
Harty: Is Fran still the man with the plan?
- Thread starter LawVHawk
- Start date
Or they get more playing time somewhere else. Maybe they didn't feel like sharing their minutes with 8 or 9 other people.
SpecialKHawk
Well-Known Member
Explain the conversation if we go back-to-back NIT. What is the next step and how do you see the program getting to what the perception is by the need for a conversation which involves a change.
What happens if the change does not work? What is the next conversation?
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
Harty mentions the Raveling years and part of the Davis era for great recruiting. Davis' 'great recruiting' was here and there and threadbare, hardly consistent. Raveling did the best at bringing in talent, but that said...well, I will just leave that alone except to say it probably wasn't sustainable
I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I suspect you might be referencing administrative guideline enforcement.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
Harty mentions the Raveling years and part of the Davis era for great recruiting. Davis' 'great recruiting' was here and there and threadbare, hardly consistent. Raveling did the best at bringing in talent, but that said...well, I will just leave that alone except to say it probably wasn't sustainable
I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I suspect you might be referencing administrative guideline enforcement.
Can somebody put words in Arvada's mouth too? In fact, can people keep putting words in eachothers' mouths until somebody actually says something?
I thought it was a decent column that did summarize the message board discussions quite accurately. It is not unfair to Fran, but puts a little heat in the debate about recruiting, which is what the local columnists are supposed to do...not just echo the coaching staff talking points.
Fran is a worker, and he knows the objective truth about his 2014 class, as evidenced by Van Colemans comments and other rating services. You simply cannot be in the bottom half of the league in recruiting and expect to finish in the top half consistently.
Fran is a worker, and he knows the objective truth about his 2014 class, as evidenced by Van Colemans comments and other rating services. You simply cannot be in the bottom half of the league in recruiting and expect to finish in the top half consistently.
nationalchamps
Well-Known Member
He pulled in more McDonald's All-American's than the last three coaches we've had combined.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
SpecialKHawk
Well-Known Member
How many and who did TD get that was a McDonalds All-American? Ray Thompson (I think) but who else? The Woolridge transfer?
SpecialKHawk
Well-Known Member
I can answer my own question ....
TD = 4 Ray Thompson, Kenyon Murray, Chris Kingsbury, Sam Okey (transfer in)
SA = 2 Luke Recker (transfer in), Jerome Harper
TL = 0
FM = 0
13 years with TD we got 4, 14 years since 2. Yes accurate earlier post but hardly a wide discrepancy or an abundance of these players in either era. Two of the 6 transferred in so combined we have pulled in 4 out-right McDonalds All American recruits in 27 years. Hardly a basketball destination for that kind of talent when matched against the fan base expectation for wins and losses.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
Kingsbury, Kenyon Murry, and Sam Okey as a transfer for a few games.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
The Vanilla Gorilla, Al Lorenzen, Ed Horton, Brad Lohaus, Roy Marble, all recruited by Lute and Raveling.,....
Marcus Fizer went to Iowa State
Nick Collison, Rafe LaFrentz, Harrison Barnes, Marcus Paige went to Roy Williams, who also stole Kurt Heinrich who is stlll playing in the pros.....
Six players from Iowa made the McDonalds All American Team.....
We only got one of them, Big Al.....
One thing about LaFrentz, even though he never played the Hawks while at Kansas, after graduating without a National Championship, he was watching the Hawks in the tournament under Mr. Davis in Denver his last season, Rafe was screaming against the Hawks with unrestrained fury.....
Despicable P****
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:McDonald's_High_School_All-Americans
Marcus Fizer went to Iowa State
Nick Collison, Rafe LaFrentz, Harrison Barnes, Marcus Paige went to Roy Williams, who also stole Kurt Heinrich who is stlll playing in the pros.....
Six players from Iowa made the McDonalds All American Team.....
We only got one of them, Big Al.....
One thing about LaFrentz, even though he never played the Hawks while at Kansas, after graduating without a National Championship, he was watching the Hawks in the tournament under Mr. Davis in Denver his last season, Rafe was screaming against the Hawks with unrestrained fury.....
Despicable P****
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:McDonald's_High_School_All-Americans
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info....
I remember Chris Kingsbury being a McDonalds All American, but can't remember Ray and Kenyon making it. Loved Sam Okey, he was a man among men, we need him now.....
Sam Okey was a McDonalds All American in 1995.....
Kenyon Murray made it in 1992.....
Luke Recker made it in 1997....
Found this about Kingsbury:
High School - McDonald's All-American as senior, averaging 21.2 points and eight rebounds...named by Ohio Roundball Prep magazine as one of the 10 best Ohio high school basketball players since 1980...also co-Mr. Basketball in the state of Ohio and first team all-state...finished prep career with 1,540 points as a four-year starter...won three-point contest at 1993 McDonald's game, sinking 13-25 attempts...named to Parade Magazine's Prep all-American fourth team and was a second team all-Ohio selection as a junior...averaged 19.8 points and 7.4 rebounds...averaged 16 points and five rebounds as a sophomore...Hamilton was 76-20 over the course of his career...National Honor Society member.
Found this on Ray, considered one of the 25 best high school seniors in America:
Ray Thompson, Argo High School`s 6-foot-5-inch senior guard, Monday announced that he will enroll at the University of Iowa next year.
Thompson made the commitment after visiting the Iowa City campus and selected the Hawkeyes over De Paul and Purdue.
Ranked as one of the top 25 basketball players in the nation by one recruiting service, Thompson was named the Most Valuable Player at the prestigious B/C summer camp in Rensselaer, Ind.
``I know that Iowa coaches believe he is the best second guard in the nation,`` Argo basketball coach Rick Moss said of Thompson, who averaged more than 23 points a game as a junior.
Although Thompson has verbally committed, he cannot sign a binding letter of intent for Iowa until November.
Must stop using Wikipedia for information, easy but unreliable....
This is a better reference.....
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mcdonalds.html
Agree..............You may or may not like Harty but he, unlike most writers who report on the Hawks, will challenge the establishment at times or express what some followers are are thinking but most of the other media will not cover or touch.
No problem with the Davis era but recruiting was well known as one of his least favorite responsibilities. Davis inherited a program with some noteriety and momentum (and players).....look at the number of NCAA tourney appearances in previous years prior to Davis. McCaffery has little of that. He is leading the troops out of a deep bunker. Program momentum and reputation make a difference in recruiting. McCaffery is in the heavy lifting stage currently but making good progress.
McCaffery is a pioneer at this stage. Pioneers get the arrows but they eventually get the land.
gohawkz
Well-Known Member
If Iowa didn't have so many racists we'd have several national championship trophies now.
Fran came into the conference at a really bad time to try to turn Iowa into constant front runner. There is just too much parody in the sport and too many good programs in the conference to take a team to the top of the conference year after year.
MSU, OSU, Michigan, and Wisconsin have solidified themselves at the top and it doesn't look like they're going anywhere any time soon. Then you have teams like Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, and Maryland all trying to break into that group. Look what happened to Purdue. They are a solid program with what appeared to be a solid coach and they finished at the bottom this year.
It's not just about what Iowa can do to get to the top, it's also about what all the other teams do to prevent us from getting there. And right now I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.
MSU, OSU, Michigan, and Wisconsin have solidified themselves at the top and it doesn't look like they're going anywhere any time soon. Then you have teams like Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, and Maryland all trying to break into that group. Look what happened to Purdue. They are a solid program with what appeared to be a solid coach and they finished at the bottom this year.
It's not just about what Iowa can do to get to the top, it's also about what all the other teams do to prevent us from getting there. And right now I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.
LawVHawk
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately this thread has devolved into a discussion of what was or has been and not what needs to be.
Back to Pat Harty's column, which was the subject of the original post, I believe Fran still is the man. But his plan needs some adjustment. It's hard for Iowa fans to look up the road and see what another coach has managed to do reviving a program, going 90-47 over the same period of time, winning the Big 12 championship and appearing in the NCAA tournament three of his four years.
As others have opined, April 2016 looms large in Fran's future, IMHO. He has two more years to continue to bring the program back from the cellar and put it on a solid foundation for the future. It is not there yet. If he is not able to accomplish those goals over the next two years, Gary Barta needs to take a hard look at his hire and see whether it is time to move in another direction.
It is obvious that Fran is a hard worker and travels a lot attempting to get good players to come to Iowa. But he can't do it all himself, and things he does when back in Iowa City perhaps are hurting him on the recruiting trail. A better W-L record and expected appearances in the NCAA will help recruiting immensely. But what can Fran do to tweak his plan to get us to the NCAA routinely? My thoughts:
1) Put a strong recruiting assistant on staff. Something's not working here. I don't know who needs to go to create the capacity for a better recruiter but Fran simply needs someone who can get in early on not only high school players but also JUCOs and possible transfers, and stay on them.
2) Add NBA experience to the staff. The person hired in No. 1 needs to bring his own set of contacts at the next level. That's what a lot of recruits are looking for.
3) Improved game management. Successful programs give the most playing time to the best players; there's little effort to spread available minutes around to all players on the roster. Fran's substitution patterns were mystifying at times the last two years. Unless there was something that those of us watching from the seats in CHA or in front of our TVs weren't aware of (player injury, player needing a breather, etc.), Fran needed to ride his main horses longer. Watch the opponent's substitutions and find better match-ups. Call time-outs when needed to set up a winning play, or set the defense for a last stand. IMHO, Fran's game management was his own worst enemy in several games last year, costing his team some critical wins.
4) Control the anger. Passion is fine. Losing your temper, or continuing to berate or move aggressively towards the officials when you already have one technical or already are on thin ice, is not. Not only did it hurt his team in some key games, my guess is it doesn't play well with recruits watching from home. When Fran was hired, I spotted a Siena fan's comment in the reader section of the local New York paper to the effect of "good-riddance" to the Fran and Marj McCaffery sideshow from Fran's time there. Marj, who had a couple well-publicized blow-ups over officiating while Fran was at Siena, seems to have gotten her act under control at Iowa. Fran? Well... He needs to do a better job of focusing on the game, his players and his game strategy, and less at blowing up at the officials.
I want Fran to succeed at Iowa. He's at a critical junction right now on whether he does.
Back to Pat Harty's column, which was the subject of the original post, I believe Fran still is the man. But his plan needs some adjustment. It's hard for Iowa fans to look up the road and see what another coach has managed to do reviving a program, going 90-47 over the same period of time, winning the Big 12 championship and appearing in the NCAA tournament three of his four years.
As others have opined, April 2016 looms large in Fran's future, IMHO. He has two more years to continue to bring the program back from the cellar and put it on a solid foundation for the future. It is not there yet. If he is not able to accomplish those goals over the next two years, Gary Barta needs to take a hard look at his hire and see whether it is time to move in another direction.
It is obvious that Fran is a hard worker and travels a lot attempting to get good players to come to Iowa. But he can't do it all himself, and things he does when back in Iowa City perhaps are hurting him on the recruiting trail. A better W-L record and expected appearances in the NCAA will help recruiting immensely. But what can Fran do to tweak his plan to get us to the NCAA routinely? My thoughts:
1) Put a strong recruiting assistant on staff. Something's not working here. I don't know who needs to go to create the capacity for a better recruiter but Fran simply needs someone who can get in early on not only high school players but also JUCOs and possible transfers, and stay on them.
2) Add NBA experience to the staff. The person hired in No. 1 needs to bring his own set of contacts at the next level. That's what a lot of recruits are looking for.
3) Improved game management. Successful programs give the most playing time to the best players; there's little effort to spread available minutes around to all players on the roster. Fran's substitution patterns were mystifying at times the last two years. Unless there was something that those of us watching from the seats in CHA or in front of our TVs weren't aware of (player injury, player needing a breather, etc.), Fran needed to ride his main horses longer. Watch the opponent's substitutions and find better match-ups. Call time-outs when needed to set up a winning play, or set the defense for a last stand. IMHO, Fran's game management was his own worst enemy in several games last year, costing his team some critical wins.
4) Control the anger. Passion is fine. Losing your temper, or continuing to berate or move aggressively towards the officials when you already have one technical or already are on thin ice, is not. Not only did it hurt his team in some key games, my guess is it doesn't play well with recruits watching from home. When Fran was hired, I spotted a Siena fan's comment in the reader section of the local New York paper to the effect of "good-riddance" to the Fran and Marj McCaffery sideshow from Fran's time there. Marj, who had a couple well-publicized blow-ups over officiating while Fran was at Siena, seems to have gotten her act under control at Iowa. Fran? Well... He needs to do a better job of focusing on the game, his players and his game strategy, and less at blowing up at the officials.
I want Fran to succeed at Iowa. He's at a critical junction right now on whether he does.
