Ghost Sightings: 6 observations from the OSU let down

ShadasRevenge said:
What I'm getting is that Lick has sent better players than Payne to the bench for not playing "in the system." Tony Freeman comes to mind. I was using an extreme example (Payne being benched) to drive home the point that if the coaches don't have a problem with his jump passes, we shouldn't either, especially if they're not hurting the team, which they haven't been.
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this may be true but the Payne situation is different imo because of the lack of depth/talent to play the PG position right now.
 
My bad Parquet, I even knew it was 6 but typed 3 for some reason.

The thing that is getting lost in this whole discussion is the notion that these passes were "lucky" to get to their recipient.

I'm aware that there are some people that just unequivocally will think leaving your feet to pass is the cardinal sin of basketball. I'm just telling you, as an ex-coach myself, I subscribe to the "get it done" theory.
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tubahawk said:
The issue for me is that it seems to contradict the supposed "system" that is based on playing percentages and valuing every possession. It's shouldn't be if he can get away with its okay, if it hits the backboard it's a stupid play. (i.e. No Harm No Foul). The jump pass is not a high percentage success play for reasons we saw last night. Just because he got away with it a couple of times doesn't mean we should condone it.

It's a bad habit that, in the long run, will likely cause us more turnovers than points and the coaches need to put a stop to it.
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I just rewatched the game. There's not one pass (even the baskboard pass) that I would categorize as a bad pass. The guy was open on the wing. He hit May on back to back "jump passes" for three in the second half. He knows where he wants to put the ball.

Look to me this is a non-issue. He played well last night against a good defense.
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AZmess said:
I just rewatched the game. There's not one pass (even the baskboard pass) that I would categorize as a bad pass. The guy was open on the wing. He hit May on back to back "jump passes" for three in the second half. He knows where he wants to put the ball.

Look to me this is a non-issue. He played well last night against a good defense.
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I think the thing with the jump pass is it works if you are actually in a spot to shoot the ball. He gets so far under the basket, leaves his feet, and the defense knows he has to pass, as he can't take a shot from there. I think if you are driving to the basket, and have a legit shot at the basket then the defense sags, the wings open up, and then it is OK. Just a thought anyway....
 
AZmess said:
I also think its a misconception that OSU's changing defenses bothered the team last night. I can remember once....the Bawinkle timeout. I thought we did a good job of attacking that 1-3-1. Got the rim 3 or 4 times. Didn't convert once. Sure it helps to have Lauderdale back there, but I thought the team did a good job of recognizing the change and exploiting it. Just didn't convert.
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The offense was being started 30 ft from the bucket. The ball couldn't get inside, Iowa's O stalled and they chucked up a desperation trey at least 3 times down the court against the zone.
 
For the record, I am not against jump passes per say. I am against driving baseline, running out of real estate, jumping into the air out bounds, and heaving it cross court.

Those happen WAAAAY too much for a D1 program.
 
AZmess said:
I just rewatched the game. There's not one pass (even the baskboard pass) that I would categorize as a bad pass. The guy was open on the wing. He hit May on back to back "jump passes" for three in the second half. He knows where he wants to put the ball.

Look to me this is a non-issue. He played well last night against a good defense.
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If a pass hits the BACK of the hoop - i think we should all be able to agree that it is a terrible effing pass.

That is all
 
storminspank said:
The offense was being started 30 ft from the bucket. The ball couldn't get inside, Iowa's O stalled and they chucked up a desperation trey at least 3 times down the court against the zone.
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When the point of the 1-3-1 is 30 feet from the hoop of course that's where you are going to start your offense. Yes there were poor shots against the zone, there were all game against the man too. The first 4 minutes were brutal for our offense. They also got good looks against it as well. I'm just saying the switch wasn't that big a deal. Iowa had their chances.
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AZmess said:
I just rewatched the game. There's not one pass (even the baskboard pass) that I would categorize as a bad pass. The guy was open on the wing. He hit May on back to back "jump passes" for three in the second half. He knows where he wants to put the ball.

Look to me this is a non-issue. He played well last night against a good defense.
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busabus114 said:
If a pass hits the BACK of the hoop - i think we should all be able to agree that it is a terrible effing pass.

That is all
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AZmess said:
Of course it was.
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Why did you say it wasnt a bad pass then? Just curious
 
OK last night was the first time I stood close enough to the tunnel to really get a better perspective in terms of height and I will say that Cully's jump pass is often more out of necessity than anything else. I played point guard myself and the coach would get on me occasionally about the very same thing but as much as I wanted to please coach and go with the "two-handed chest pass", at 5'10" (roughly the same height as Payne judging by last night) it simply was not possible for me to make a cross-court skip pass over the head of the 6'2 dude guarding me so I learned to adapt. Did I use it all the time, absolutely not...in fact I was a huge fan of the Tom Davis bounce pass which our big men learned to either catch with their hands or catch in their groin but the jump pass had its time and place which I think you will see Cully learn with more experience.
 
I have no problem with the jump pass. Yes, Cully turns it over at times, but he has a very good knack of drawing several defenders and finding the open guy. It works more often than not!
 
Ok, so we got a good discussion about the jump pass.

Now, let us get to the important stuff of my OP, namely, who the hell was that Asian guy in the suit?
 
webguy96 said:
OK last night was the first time I stood close enough to the tunnel to really get a better perspective in terms of height and I will say that Cully's jump pass is often more out of necessity than anything else. I played point guard myself and the coach would get on me occasionally about the very same thing but as much as I wanted to please coach and go with the "two-handed chest pass", at 5'10" (roughly the same height as Payne judging by last night) it simply was not possible for me to make a cross-court skip pass over the head of the 6'2 dude guarding me so I learned to adapt. Did I use it all the time, absolutely not...in fact I was a huge fan of the Tom Davis bounce pass which our big men learned to either catch with their hands or catch in their groin but the jump pass had its time and place which I think you will see Cully learn with more experience.
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Very good post. I agree as well. Sometimes the jump pass is necessary. Especially for someone shorter in stature and driving the lane and kicking opposite. But it should never be a consistent feature in your arsenal. It will bite more than it will help in the long run.

I've been a little critical of Payne from time to time. I think that is because I was a point guard. And as a rule, I think we are very critical of our own. But I still think Payne could be a great one for Iowa. As soon as we get him another quality ball handler, I think you will see his game emerge.
 
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