Gesell

[Bigtenchamp]

Nobody on this team needs to let threes indiscriminately fly, including Mike. Everyone on the team is being appropriately selective from three at this point in the season.

Mike seems to be in a groove with his confidence, but he's not a good enough shooter to sacrifice possessions by yacking threes. No one on our team is.

This team makes its money from within fifteen feet of the hoop. Those of us who are used to the Davis/Alford years when a 'hot' Iowa team meant 10 threes in a half need to adjust our expectations. When we yack it means that something is wrong and we're not executing.

Also Henry Iba... I wasn't saying he should take bad shots... I said he there were a couple times he passed up shots that we he should have taken.

 

[tm3308]

Agreed...nobody should be chucking it indiscriminately...but Gesell passed up at least two open threes that he could have gotten off uncontested. Gesell was 4-5 from 3, I'd say that's pretty warm. I really think people are underestimating how good Gesell is going to be. I think he's got the entire package and you have to ride the hot hand. I'll bet if someone asks Fran in a press conference, he'll say he wants Mike taking those shots when he's open.

To be fair, though, he says that about all of our shooters. You definitely want shooters taking shots when they've got great looks. But wunder wasn't arguing against that point. But I usually don't mind if Gesell occasionally passes up an open look from the outside, because he's almost always going to create something good for us that's a higher-percentage play. Uthoff and McCabe are the ones that bugs me when he passes up good looks, because it seems like they usually doesn't make anything happen once they put the ball on the floor in those situations. Gesell has a full arsenal of things he can do when he passes up those shots: he can take it to the hole himself, pull up for a mid-range jumper or dish it off for an easy bucket. Oglesby has a nice pull up off the pump fake. Marble is Marble.

I know Dakich isn't necessarily the most popular guy around here, but he does know the game pretty damn well. And he said during the Michigan game when Albrecht passed up a good look from the corner to drive and get an assist on an easy lay in opporunity, that just because you get the ball at 20 feet and have a good look, doesn't mean you HAVE to shoot it. If there's a better opportunity that you can take advantage of, take it.

 

[wundergrape]

Are you stoned? I'm giving a guy who's 4-5 from three land the green light if he gets a good look and I'm sure Fran is too. You are right, 15 feet from the goal today...at the freaking free throw line 41 times and made 30 or something like that. So against Michigan when Marble took 6-7 threes in the first half we weren't executing? The final play of the half against Michigan where Marble got the planned three wasn't executing? These guys are working to get the hot player more shots...there is no doubt about that...Fran runs plays for all them when we have the mismatch or are feeling it. If Gesell is stroking the three like today...I don't think anyone's going to get on him if he takes one...at least without forcing it. He turned a few down today that I think he should have taken.

You should google "how far away is the free throw line from the rim?"

 

[wundergrape]

Glad Fran disagrees with you since he constantly says he wished Josh and Mike would shoot more.

Fran motivates his team through the media. That's always been his M.O.. He's trying to instill confidence in his shooters by declaring his faith in them.

But do you really think Fran wants Mike G hoisting questionable shots while we're running multiple curl screens and back door cuts beneath him? He doesn't.

Fran wants our shooters to hoist in transition, off screens, and increasingly off of dribble penetration. I'll be dollars to donuts that Fran discourages threes off of isolation. Matt Gatens is not on this team.

 

[uihawk82]

Yeah the made the run without Mike in the game...I'm going to go down as also saying the fact that we missed 8-9 shots in a row as contributing also. Wait I'm solely going with the missed shots.

The hawk drought and tough time the 10 to 3 minute mark of the first half was much like that against Illinois and in other games.

The hawks shot poorly, took some forced 3's, they were not stopping opponent penetration which led to high percentage makes by PSU, which in turn leads to no run outs by the hawks from turnovers and rebounds.

The hawks are finding ways to get out of these funks.

 

[Hawkcrush]

Yeah the made the run without Mike in the game...I'm going to go down as also saying the fact that we missed 8-9 shots in a row as contributing also. Wait I'm solely going with the missed shots.

Yeah, of course missed shots allow the other team to come back, that and allowing an easy path to the basket. In the game yesterday PSU's runs came when MG wasn't in the game for the most part because he was the only one capable of staying in front of them defensively, and his leadership on O to get people moving. Anymore I dread when Ogs comes in the game without MG, not cause I don't like Ogs, but because all that happens is 3 chucking from everybody, that and standing around and setting screens for one person.

I can't ever remember watching a bball game where a run happened on a team that was making shots, so I think that kind of goes without saying. It is possible as a coach to affect those runs through subs and timeouts and such, that is why they get paid big time dollars .

 

[Bigtenchamp]

Fran motivates his team through the media. That's always been his M.O.. He's trying to instill confidence in his shooters by declaring his faith in them.

But do you really think Fran wants Mike G hoisting questionable shots while we're running multiple curl screens and back door cuts beneath him? He doesn't.

Fran wants our shooters to hoist in transition, off screens, and increasingly off of dribble penetration. I'll be dollars to donuts that Fran discourages threes off of isolation. Matt Gatens is not on this team.

That's a lot of inference there - because I have not heard Fran say any of that - besides he likes open 3's in transition.

The reality is coaches like shots that go in.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

To be fair, though, he says that about all of our shooters. You definitely want shooters taking shots when they've got great looks. But wunder wasn't arguing against that point. But I usually don't mind if Gesell occasionally passes up an open look from the outside, because he's almost always going to create something good for us that's a higher-percentage play. Uthoff and McCabe are the ones that bugs me when he passes up good looks, because it seems like they usually doesn't make anything happen once they put the ball on the floor in those situations. Gesell has a full arsenal of things he can do when he passes up those shots: he can take it to the hole himself, pull up for a mid-range jumper or dish it off for an easy bucket. Oglesby has a nice pull up off the pump fake. Marble is Marble.

I know Dakich isn't necessarily the most popular guy around here, but he does know the game pretty damn well. And he said during the Michigan game when Albrecht passed up a good look from the corner to drive and get an assist on an easy lay in opporunity, that just because you get the ball at 20 feet and have a good look, doesn't mean you HAVE to shoot it. If there's a better opportunity that you can take advantage of, take it.

You must have played and watched a diff game than I have for 25 years...

Good shooters passing up open shots rarely leads to better things... I remember one time for sure we turned it over after I thought Mike should have shot but I'm not going to be anal and go look over the game film... but guys that passing up open shots usually leads to bad offense.

About 95% of the time.

The old saying "We can get that shot anytime" is such lol BS. Having played and coached and watched basketball for so long... maybe in elementary school basketball.

Open shots are hard to get period... especially at this level.

 

[PCHawk]

He said nobody should be chucking indiscriminately. He's not wrong. Gesell wasn't chucking out there today; he took five excellent shots and hit four of them. But he's probably not always going to get that many great looks; and when he's not, he's not good enough to justify chucking it anyway (neither is anyone on the team, for that matter, with the exception of Oglesby when he's hot).

I think you belong on the "Gesell needs to take more shots" side. If you think his last 3 from about 5 feet behind the line classifies as a excellent shot, he passed up about 5 shots even more excellent than that one.

The truth is, Gesell's good percentage had more to do with him feeling it than it did with his shot selection. He's had plenty of nights where he took nothing but open looks and couldn't hit. On days like yesterday he needs to shoot more. You could tell he was dialed in by the way he drilled that deep 3 after the whistle.

 

[tm3308]

You must have played and watched a diff game than I have for 25 years...

Good shooters passing up open shots rarely leads to better things... I remember one time for sure we turned it over after I thought Mike should have shot but I'm not going to be anal and go look over the game film... but guys that passing up open shots usually leads to bad offense.

About 95% of the time.

The old saying "We can get that shot anytime" is such lol BS. Having played and coached and watched basketball for so long... maybe in elementary school basketball.

Open shots are hard to get period... especially at this level.

If you can get a better look by passing up a good one, you do it. Gesell often gets us a better look when he passes up a shot, whether he finds a better one for himself or a teammate. That's no different than making the extra pass when swinging it around the perimeter. Sure, the last guy to pass had a good look if he wanted to shoot. But instead gave a teammate a shootaround-esque look by making one more pass.

 

[FCAS]

In the midst of this Gesell lovefest, we need to point out the bad along with the good. Gesell has underperformed (to put in mildly) from the FT line. If you want him to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game, he needs to be up around 80%.

 

[tm3308]

In the midst of this Gesell lovefest, we need to point out the bad along with the good. Gesell has underperformed (to put in mildly) from the FT line. If you want him to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game, he needs to be up around 80%.

If you seriously want him on the bench in crunch time because of his FT shooting, I don't know what to tell you. You take the bad with the good, and this team is significantly less dangerous when he's not on the floor.

 

[Foval21]

In the midst of this Gesell lovefest, we need to point out the bad along with the good. Gesell has underperformed (to put in mildly) from the FT line. If you want him to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game, he needs to be up around 80%.

I guess marble can't have the ball in his hands at the end of the game either as he doesn't shoot 80% from the line.

 

[FCAS]

If you seriously want him on the bench in crunch time because of his FT shooting, I don't know what to tell you. You take the bad with the good, and this team is significantly less dangerous when he's not on the floor.

I never said I wanted him on the bench. I just said he should be shooting better from the line. Do you disagree with that?

 

[tm3308]

I never said I wanted him on the bench. I just said he should be shooting better from the line. Do you disagree with that?

Sure, he should shoot better from the line. But not putting the ball in his hands isn't really any different than putting him on the bench. And as Foval said, Marble doesn't shoot 80%, either. By all means, we should avoid putting the ball in the hands of two of our three best players in crunch time.

 

[FCAS]

Sure, he should shoot better from the line.

I'm glad you see things my way.

 

[FCAS]

I guess marble can't have the ball in his hands at the end of the game either as he doesn't shoot 80% from the line.

I'll take White. I really don't want to turn this into a ******* match, but I'll ask the following:

1) Do you think Iowa might have 1 or 2 more wins if their ball handlers had been better from the line at the end of the game?
2) Does it seem a little unusual that Woodbury and Olaseni have higher FT %s than Marble and Gesell?
3) At the end of the season, when Fran meets individually with players, do you think FT shooting may be a topic discussed with Gesell?

 

[Bigtenchamp]

If you can get a better look by passing up a good one, you do it. Gesell often gets us a better look when he passes up a shot, whether he finds a better one for himself or a teammate. That's no different than making the extra pass when swinging it around the perimeter. Sure, the last guy to pass had a good look if he wanted to shoot. But instead gave a teammate a shootaround-esque look by making one more pass.

That's a big "if" many times - In my experience of watching, playing and coaching basketball - passing up open shots is bad. Not 100% of the time but its pretty up there.

The worst thing is to between caught in between shot and pass.

Of course reversing the ball to get open shots, running the offense and getting it down low... all important.

But I think we struggle to get good looks in the half course - our good shooters need to shoot period.

The idea that Gessell passes up shots to get better ones is good in theory - but from what I've seen we struggle to get clean shots in our half court offense quite often... its why we go on these huge FG scoring droughts.

 

[Foval21]

I'll take White. I really don't want to turn this into a ******* match, but I'll ask the following:

1) Do you think Iowa might have 1 or 2 more wins if their ball handlers had been better from the line at the end of the game?
2) Does it seem a little unusual that Woodbury and Olaseni have higher FT %s than Marble and Gesell?
3) At the end of the season, when Fran meets individually with players, do you think FT shooting may be a topic discussed with Gesell?

I want the ball in the hands of the guys that can do the most with it...gesell and marble can score in 3 ways from the field (3 pt, mid, or at the rim), they can dish to open teammates, and they can create foul opportunities (they just need to convert more and I feel gesell will next yr when it is HIS team). If you go with white you have only two out of five scoring possibilities (he has no long range, rarely pulls up from mid, and isn't a great passer off the dribble).

i will stick with what we got because I don't like the what if game...if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas.

 

[FCAS]

I want the ball in the hands of the guys that can do the most with it...gesell and marble can score in 3 ways from the field (3 pt, mid, or at the rim), they can dish to open teammates, and they can create foul opportunities (they just need to convert more and I feel gesell will next yr when it is HIS team). If you go with white you have only two out of five scoring possibilities (he has no long range, rarely pulls up from mid, and isn't a great passer off the dribble).

i will stick with what we got because I don't like the what if game...if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas.

I agree with almost everthing you say here. But at a certain point in the game, when the other team is in a situation where they are forced to foul, I want White to have the ball.

Also, if you want to "stick with what we got because I don't like the what if game", there must be a lot of threads on here that upset you.