Gatens-Zero Points in 2nd half

[DuffMan]

You can talk statistics until you're blue in the face. As Vince Lombardi once said, "Statistics are for losers". Look at it this way: 12 seconds on the clock and you're down 1 point. Who do you want to have the ball? Your best offensive player, right? And all season, who has had the ball in those types of situations? That's right, Bryce Cartwright. I think he's done a decent job at making decisions in that setting all season.

You are using a very narrow set of criteria to back up your statement. Even if I give you I want the ball in Cartwrights hands in that situation it doesn't mean he's our best offensive player, only that he's our best offensive player in THAT specific situation, and there are numerous other situations in which I'd want the ball in Gatens hand.

Lastly for what it's worth that when the team is in the situation you described, Fran almost always puts the ball in Gatens hands. That tells me there is little doubt in his mind who our best offensive player is.

 

[ibahawkeye]

Exactly how many games were there where we needed a score at the end of the game and Cartwright was the first option? Those sets have almost all been to set up a shot for Gatens. Cartwright has only "had the ball in those types of situations" because he's the point guard.

How many times has Gaten come through??? How many times has Big shot Bryce come through???

 

[GravyJones]

How many times has Gaten come through??? How many times has Big shot Bryce come through???

You should try answering those questions yourself to back up your argument. With what frequency did Gatens miss shots during games? With what frequency did Cartwright miss shots during games? These are easy to figure out, and they show you that Gatens should be the one taking important shots.

 

[aaronzuriel]

Please... STOP this incredible moronic discussion of Gatens vs. Cartwright and who's the best offensive player or who should have the ball in his hands under 10 seconds while tied or behind by one possesion.

IT ALL DEPENDS ON THAT PARTICULAR TIME AND PLACE.

Trust in Fran and none of us knotheads (myself included) for the right call.

 

[Hawkstrat]

No Gravy is right, Matt is much more efficient than Cartwright. His PPS (points per shot) is 1.22, Cartwrights was .99 which is pretty bad. Gatens eFG% was 48%, Cartwrights was 39%. Cartwright certainly has an advantage in the assist-TO ratio, but overall Gatens was clearly our best offensive player this year.

Is this filtered for Big Ten play, or all season?

 

[ibahawkeye]

You should try answering those questions yourself to back up your argument. With what frequency did Gatens miss shots during games? With what frequency did Cartwright miss shots during games? These are easy to figure out, and they show you that Gatens should be the one taking important shots.

Cartwright: 2 (Indiana and Purdue)
Gatens: 0

Just because somebody shoots a higher percentage doesn't mean they are the ones who you want to take the last shot. If you want to use this as your determining factor, Cole would be the guy you want taking the last shot as he shot the 2nd highest FG % in the conference. Some guys just have "ice in their veins" and Cartwright has the ability to create his own shot.

 

[Thawki]

Any Iowa hoops fan that is knowledable...

...would know there is some pretty good talent in Iowa, like the players that have been named. There is no debate, there. But MANY people act like you should just get every player that is all-state in Iowa and not worry about going to places where other schools go to get talent.

When I hear people talk about getting Gesell (sp) and Staten and Woodbury and Jok and keep going down the list they act like all of these guys, just by being in Iowa, should be recruited by Iowa. I see taking a guy every year from Iowa because the guy is really good, yes. But after that, get talent that will win games. That team with Horner and Brunner as seniors didn't have such a great season just one year earlier, did they? They were good, but not top three in conference, were they?

The fact that Roy comes to Iowa tells you something else. It tells you he isn't getting all of his players from the talent rich area around North Carolina. He is going everywhere, EVEN Iowa.

We should too.

 

[ibahawkeye]

Re: Any Iowa hoops fan that is knowledable...

...would know there is some pretty good talent in Iowa, like the players that have been named. There is no debate, there. But MANY people act like you should just get every player that is all-state in Iowa and not worry about going to places where other schools go to get talent.

When I hear people talk about getting Gesell (sp) and Staten and Woodbury and Jok and keep going down the list they act like all of these guys, just by being in Iowa, should be recruited by Iowa. I see taking a guy every year from Iowa because the guy is really good, yes. But after that, get talent that will win games. That team with Horner and Brunner as seniors didn't have such a great season just one year earlier, did they? They were good, but not top three in conference, were they?

The fact that Roy comes to Iowa tells you something else. It tells you he isn't getting all of his players from the talent rich area around North Carolina. He is going everywhere, EVEN Iowa.

We should too.

I disagree.... there is not plenty of taletnt.

 

[tm3308]

Re: Any Iowa hoops fan that is knowledable...

I disagree.... there is not plenty of taletnt.

Barnes, Woodbury, Paige, Jok. Four guys that are/were serious D1 talents (as in potential game-changers) in a 3-year span.

There are more guys that are solid (Gatens, Bohannon-type players).

It's not loaded by any means, but there are talented players in the state that could drastically improve this team.

 

[JHHawk]

Re: Any Iowa hoops fan that is knowledable...

...would know there is some pretty good talent in Iowa, like the players that have been named. There is no debate, there. But MANY people act like you should just get every player that is all-state in Iowa and not worry about going to places where other schools go to get talent.

When I hear people talk about getting Gesell (sp) and Staten and Woodbury and Jok and keep going down the list they act like all of these guys, just by being in Iowa, should be recruited by Iowa. I see taking a guy every year from Iowa because the guy is really good, yes. But after that, get talent that will win games. That team with Horner and Brunner as seniors didn't have such a great season just one year earlier, did they? They were good, but not top three in conference, were they?

The fact that Roy comes to Iowa tells you something else. It tells you he isn't getting all of his players from the talent rich area around North Carolina. He is going everywhere, EVEN Iowa.

We should too.

Jok is a top 25 player in his class. Duke and UNC might be going for him soon. Illinois has offered him already......but Iowa should turn up their nose because he happens to live in Des Moines? Right. Gesell is a top 100 player,but Iowa should pass because he in almost an Iowa kid? Right.

I am not about taking iowa kids who are not talented,but it is dumb to pass on talented Iowa kids because they come from iowa.

 

[Thawki]

With apologies to Columbushawk.

The 1987 team was better than the 1979 team. I was 14 in 1979 and a senior at Iowa in 1987. I might be biased based upon being there in 1987, but that is my opinion. And they were CLOSE to the 1980 team. If 1987 wouldn't have blown that lead to UNLV there would be no question. But they DID blow that lead. There was better talent on the 1987 team, but a better coach on the 1980 team.

That is no disrespect to TD. That's just the way it is. One of those coaches went to three or four Final Fours and won it all. Another never won a B10 title.

 

[Thawki]

FYI Drew003.

Unless I miss my guess, Horner and Brunner were both Top 50 talents in high school when it was all said and done. They both got invited to play in that elite camp in Colorado Springs, which I believe is USA Basketball (Pre-Olympics stuff, since that is the Olympics training facility).

I am not sure about Haluska being that high, but he was Top 100. I wouldn't blame you if you didn't think that was elite. I believe Top 50 is elite, because McD AA is Top 25 and all of the guys that make that team are NOT the top 25 players in the country (See Finklestein who went ot UNC and then Holy Cross, even though he was 7').

 

[Thawki]

Newsflash to Knight78. We have no outside threat.

Whatever the reason is, we don't have it. It may be that we have no inside game, but that doesn't change the fact.

 

[Thawki]

Newsflash to hawkIhoops.

We used to get EVERY elite Iowa player until Raef. Al Lorenzen was ranked #1 by everyone when he was a high school senior and we got him. Collison would have come to Iowa if they hadn't let their coach go before the start of his senior (it was his senior season, right) season. TD never recruited Hinrich, for some reason. He probably didn't want to go all the way to Sioux City, I guess. I have never heard a reason.

Dean Oliver was the forth or fifth best point guard in the country in high school and Ricky Davis was an AA type player by all accounts and they both came to Iowa in the same year.

I guess that makes you wrong in my book.

 

[Thawki]

Wrong joemc1. Lick recruited beyond Minnesota.

Fuller was from Arizona. Peterson, recruited by SA but never committed until Lick, was from DeMatha on the east coast. Jake, although he committed under SA he re-committed to Lick, was from Indiana. And Marble is from Michigan.

Your point is taken, though, re the fact that he recruited very close to Iowa. That is why I was hoping SA was really up for the Mizzou job when Mike Anderson got it. I think Iowa would have hired Anderson, and he recruits in places any Iowa coach would not already be.

All this being said, I LOVE OUR BASKETBALL COACH AND HIS STAFF!!!

 

[Thawki]

I hate to break this to you, icwesthawkeye.

You missed the point, my friend.

If Roy doesn't stay JUST in NC, then how can a program of lessor ilk stay just in their state, ESPECIALLY when it is Iowa and not Illinois, Ohio, NY or NC?

 

[Thawki]

I disagree, tchawk.

The OP's comment re Gatens, and also NOT taking Iowa players, was off base. But I have no problems with anything after his first paragraph. he makes good points after that.

I don't think we need to take every decent Iowa player, There have been times where i have seen a guy from ISU that we didn't recruit, and Ioa HS kid, who I had no problem with us not taking. And some of them, like Holman (sp) were pretty damn good, too.

 

[JHHawk]

Re: FYI Drew003.

Unless I miss my guess, Horner and Brunner were both Top 50 talents in high school when it was all said and done. They both got invited to play in that elite camp in Colorado Springs, which I believe is USA Basketball (Pre-Olympics stuff, since that is the Olympics training facility).

I am not sure about Haluska being that high, but he was Top 100. I wouldn't blame you if you didn't think that was elite. I believe Top 50 is elite, because McD AA is Top 25 and all of the guys that make that team are NOT the top 25 players in the country (See Finklestein who went ot UNC and then Holy Cross, even though he was 7').

RSCI(composite recruit rankings) final rankings for the 2002 class showed Brunner at #50, Horner at #59,and Haluska at #74.
All three validated those high rankings by making 1st team all big ten(Bru and Adam) or 2nd team(Jeff),and leading Iowa to a great season in 2006.