HawkeyeMike23
Banned
If people think Jarryd Cole is a hawkeye legend, I'm sure they will consider Gatens one too.
Gatens-Zero Points in 2nd half
- Thread starter ColumbusHawk
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If people think Jarryd Cole is a hawkeye legend, I'm sure they will consider Gatens one too.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Well to be fair, there is a difference between being a Hawkeye legend and being an elite player. Though Cole is probably going to be more of a folk hero than a true legend.
SirJamaLot
Well-Known Member
With apologies to Gravy, If the horse dies quit riding it! Who ever claimed Gatens was an impact player? He is a great teammate, plays hard, decent 3 point shooter and scorer. Look how inconsistent Baasbe played this yr, I for one think gatens improved a ton this yr and I think he will give the Hawkeyes great leadership next season, Will he ever be a first team Big ten player, probably not but I'm really glad he is a Hawkeye!
MileHighHawkeye
Well-Known Member
Duh! Don't forget Jess Settles and Chris Street? Any program in the nation would have taken those two guys.
ThatHawk03
Member
Wrong, he did score in the second half... Yes, it was only 5 points but those 5 points were big to us not going the first 2 or 3 minutes out of the gates of the second not scoring.
I'm not a big Gatens fan, but going as far as saying he didn't score is ignorant when you can clearly look up the stats.
One reason for not pulling out this game was, and I hate to say it, but Basabe. He did some very nice things but he also had a couple bonehead moments that could have swung the gates open just like they were in Iowa City when MSU came to visit. Mel would get the ball at the elbow or a little bit above and pump fake 2 or 3 times (which isn't his shot, even though he drained one from there yesterday) and then he would try turn into a PG and drive the lane and lose the ball. He needs to get on the block and go to work down there. I know he was very frustrated when he got those early fouls and we have to remember he is only a freshman so it is too be expected on that big of a stage.
I'm really excited for next season and see off-season progression from Mel and the rest of the squad. We could be a middle of the B10 team next year!!
Here's hoping these kids will keep their heads up and only get better!!
Go Hawks!
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Are you kidding me? We have no outside threat because there is absolutely no inside threat. Look at Ohio State. The reason they can shoot 3's is because of Sullinger. Those guys on the outside get an extra half step because of help defense. Same with Wisconsin for years - they have a good outside game because there is a constant inside threat. Same with Northwestern. Sheesh.
Point guards and shooting guards are nice and flashy and make some big plays, but it's the paint guys that win games. If you can't control the paint, you can't be a consistent winner. And I don't really mean scoring points. Simply the THREAT of scoring points will collapse the defenders and give guys like Gatens that extra half-step of open he needs.
Don't get me wrong, Besabe is a very good player, but he's a power forward at best, and a thin one at that. Cole is a hustle guy who is below average on offense, and is still at best an undersized power forward. Even announcers are constantly saying that Iowa is undersized.
If we had a center that the rest of the league respected, Gatens and the rest of the outside players would have no trouble shooting. With what we have now, the outside defender doesn't have to drop that half-step to help his post defender.
Gatens was 5 of 10 from the field,and Bryce was 5 of 15 from the field,and Gatens gets the heat,while Bryce is not mentioned....wtf? This dumb generalization business of flatly declaring that no Iowa born players are worthy of playing in the Big Ten is ridiculous. Archie is from Indiana,so no Indiana players are worthy,right? Brommer is from Minnesota so no Minny players. And Bawinkel was from Illinois so forget Illinois.
So dumb it hurts.
So dumb it hurts.
GravyJones
Well-Known Member
I find it rather amusing that some people don't realize how much better Gatens is offensively than Cartwright, and that takes assists into consideration.
Cartwright is a poor shooter, but he is the better offensive player. I'm not against Gatens, but he doesn't create opportunities for others, or even for himself most times.
GravyJones
Well-Known Member
He's actually in the bottom half offensively if you look at everything. He is a poor shooter (in all areas) who turns the ball over way too often. He is not a better offensive player by any stretch of the imagination. PPG and APG don't tell the whole story.
originalityhawk
Active Member
You forgot about Oglesby and White from Iowa and Ohio, respectively. Still nice to see a coach that's seen the ocean...
icwesthawkeye
Well-Known Member
Hate to be the bearer of bad news (good news as far as I'm concerned) but we are not NC or Kansas.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
No Gravy is right, Matt is much more efficient than Cartwright. His PPS (points per shot) is 1.22, Cartwrights was .99 which is pretty bad. Gatens eFG% was 48%, Cartwrights was 39%. Cartwright certainly has an advantage in the assist-TO ratio, but overall Gatens was clearly our best offensive player this year.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
You can talk statistics until you're blue in the face. As Vince Lombardi once said, "Statistics are for losers". Look at it this way: 12 seconds on the clock and you're down 1 point. Who do you want to have the ball? Your best offensive player, right? And all season, who has had the ball in those types of situations? That's right, Bryce Cartwright. I think he's done a decent job at making decisions in that setting all season.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Cartwright has put up good numbers, particularly in assists and A/TO (especially since BT play began). He is not that good of a shooter, but he makes the players around him better, which is the biggest thing to me. Gatens doesn't do that. He needs others to set him up with good looks, or bomb away (which he had to do his FR/SO years).
Cartwright is what makes our offense go, period.
Cartwright is what makes our offense go, period.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
But who is he making better? Most people on here think May and Gatens have regressed this year. A lot of people don't think McCabe should be getting minutes at this level, the same goes for Marble. Most of Basabe's points just come on putbacks, so who is Cartwright really making better?
GravyJones
Well-Known Member
That's actually not right.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
I'll put it this way for Gatens: Cartwright SHOULD be making him better. Gatens has gotten WAY more open looks this year than he ever could have dreamed of under Lickliter.
That's really the story for several players. Cartwright has gotten them the looks, and guys just haven't been able to deliver, for varying reasons.
ibahawkeye
Well-Known Member
Unless a team is stupid enough to leave Gatens wide open for a three point shot.... It's absolutely right.
GravyJones
Well-Known Member
Exactly how many games were there where we needed a score at the end of the game and Cartwright was the first option? Those sets have almost all been to set up a shot for Gatens. Cartwright has only "had the ball in those types of situations" because he's the point guard.
