Gatens-Zero Points in 2nd half

ColumbusHawk said:
Actually, I think it was zero points in the last 30 minutes. Gatens, with rare exceptions, shows you don't want Iowa kids on the team.

The best Iowa teams I've seen are the '68, '70, '79, '80 (before Lester got hurt) & Davis' first team.

What is the the one constant in all in all those teams?

There was one and only one Iowa kid that played in the normal rotation on all those teams.

True, there are exceptions to the rule, Barnes, LaFerntz, Lorenzen, etc. But until Tom Davis came alomg, Iowa never lost an in-state recruit that was a quality recruit

Research the above teams that I have mentioned. Except for Lorenzen, the in-state player was the worst player in the normal rotation.

I think the world of Fran Mccaffery, he reminds me much Lute.

How bad is Iowa basketball? Iowa has not won a Big Ten basketball regular season title, since before Hayden coached his first game at Iowa.

I am one of the fortunate few, I have seen each of the last four Big Ten regular season champions play in person.
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Typical BS after another game....
 
hawkeye12345 said:
The way to get the elite Iowa player who comes along once every 10 yrs is to make an elite program out of out-of-state players.

I'm all for things that are Iowa but in this situation there just isn't enough talent in-state to save a drowning program. Getting a top 5 kid from another state is better than getting a top 10 kid from Iowa any day.

Look at players like Washpun who isn't good enough to play big time ball but some on here want Fran to offer the kid. We need the BEST available talent available regardless of where they are from.
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I hear you. Fran absolutely needs to get kids out of state. There are far more talented areas than Iowa. But I think elite players come out of Iowa far more often than once every ten years. For example here are the kids I mentioned and their HS grad years and other legit D1 players to go with them.

LaFrentz 1994
Davis 1997 (Oliver too)
Hinrich & Collison 1999
Haluska 2001 (not elite but good player)
Horner & Brunner 2002(same as Haluska, mentioned because they all played together)
Barnes 2010 (considered the #1 player by many)
Paige 2012

Hypothetically, lets say they all go to Iowa. The only time period in which the Hawkeyes would not have a great in state player since the mid 1990s would have been 2006-2007 season through the 2009-2010 season. Even if Iowa had went out and got great players from other states these guys would still have probably been the team's best player(s).

Point is if Iowa could have gotten the best in state players that's a great start. You would have your lead go to guy without leaving the state in most seasons.

I would love if Fran could get more players out of California & New York or any other talent rich spot. I hope he does but there is some legit big time talent in Iowa. He needs to focus there too.
 
Horner,Brunner and Haluska were top 65 players by the RSCI(Composite Rankings).
They came within one game of winning the Big Ten title,and won the BTT,going 14-5 vs the Big Ten and 17-0 at Carver(first undefeated home season ever for Iowa) in 2006. Henderson also started on that team,which was our best Big Ten finish in more than a decade. The OP would have passed on all of these Iowans bb players?

Get good players,no matter where they come from. But,clearly,Iowa has a better shot at top 150 prep players from Iowa than anywhere,so you do pursue guys like Oglesby(#110 Rivals top 150),Woodbury(#105 Rivals,#74 Scout),Jok(top 40 Rivals) ect. It is patently stupid to ignore top 150 rated prep players simply because they happen to come from your home state. That is what the OP is suggesting and he should retire as a fan. I have seen all those teams he is talking about,and Steve Waite,Bobby Hansen,Mark Gannon,Chris Street,Russ Millard,Matt Bullard,Ryan Bowen ect could really play and some of them had good NBA careers,also.

It is so damn stupid to make blanket generalizations like this it just screams senility..
 
Did Gatens have an open look around the FT line with under 20 and pass to Cole on the wing?
 
This team needs scorers, period. They can come from Mars for all I care. In the sequence where Cole threw the ball away when Iowa was within a basket, it was evident that nobody wanted anything to do with that shot. Guys were getting rid of the ball without an even cursory look as to where their defender was or if they had a shot. It was a freaking game of hot potato.

Good to have one of those guys on the floor, if that guy is a rebounding monster. But if he is a perimeter player, you are in trouble.
 
DuffMan said:
Matt Gatens is a very nice player. I don't understand why people have such an issue with that.
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Apparently some people think they can do better....or that it is somehow Matt's fault that he isn't an "elite" player.

More likely it is because they are tools who just like to bash a kid who doesn't meet "their" lofty expectations.

I always thought I was a negative person...but some people on this and other boards really take the cake.
 
CAARHawk said:
This team needs scorers, period. They can come from Mars for all I care. In the sequence where Cole threw the ball away when Iowa was within a basket, it was evident that nobody wanted anything to do with that shot. Guys were getting rid of the ball without an even cursory look as to where their defender was or if they had a shot. It was a freaking game of hot potato.

Good to have one of those guys on the floor, if that guy is a rebounding monster. But if he is a perimeter player, you are in trouble.
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There were times this season when some of the old Lackluster habits surfaced and I felt this was one of them. No one seemed willing to try to take the shot.
 
Notice a little different approach to recruiting- Lickliter never ventured farther than Minnesota. If Fran gets Cezar and Meyer- his first 4 recruits will be from NY, GA, and 2 from California. That is what it is going to take to rebuild from the disaaster of the last 3 years.
 
joemc1 said:
Notice a little different approach to recruiting- Lickliter never ventured farther than Minnesota. If Fran gets Cezar and Meyer- his first 4 recruits will be from NY, GA, and 2 from California. That is what it is going to take to rebuild from the disaaster of the last 3 years.
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I completely agree with this assessment. He is clearly spreading his recruiting wings and this is what must be done. He can bring in some players from out of state and then sprinkle in some of the higher level talent from the state of the Iowa. Winning will also help with all of this.
Another top recruit from Iowa that got away that has not been mentioned was Jason Bohannon. He was a very solid college player and I belive currently playing in the D-league. He was an excellent shooter, would have been nice in a Hawk uniform.
 
All the hatins' on Gatens is really getting old. Really unfair IMO. He's a decent but not great player and not the reason we lost yesterday-at least not more than anyone else on the team.
 
Gatens didn't score in the 2nd half because he was the only playing well in the 1st half and MSU made a point to slow him down....If you watched this entire game, why would you call out Gatens of all players???? I mean really!! Basabe had a terrible game with a ton of turnovers that lead to fast break opportunities for MSU. Cole did not play well and also had some costly turnovers...Marble had a couple of costly turnovers.....May had some costly turnovers

Gatens, Cartwright and maybe Marble are the only three that played well if you ask me. Had Iowa gotten a decent game out of Basabe they would have won this game by 10 pts.
 
ColumbusHawk said:
Actually, I think it was zero points in the last 30 minutes. Gatens, with rare exceptions, shows you don't want Iowa kids on the team.

The best Iowa teams I've seen are the '68, '70, '79, '80 (before Lester got hurt) & Davis' first team.

What is the the one constant in all in all those teams?

There was one and only one Iowa kid that played in the normal rotation on all those teams.

True, there are exceptions to the rule, Barnes, LaFerntz, Lorenzen, etc. But until Tom Davis came alomg, Iowa never lost an in-state recruit that was a quality recruit

Research the above teams that I have mentioned. Except for Lorenzen, the in-state player was the worst player in the normal rotation.

I think the world of Fran Mccaffery, he reminds me much Lute.

How bad is Iowa basketball? Iowa has not won a Big Ten basketball regular season title, since before Hayden coached his first game at Iowa.

I am one of the fortunate few, I have seen each of the last four Big Ten regular season champions play in person.
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Fail... He had 5 of his 13 points in the 2nd half. No need to read anymore.
 
I don't think anyone is "dogging" Gatens, I just think for some the reality is finally setting in that Gatens has hit the ceiling. I agree, he wasn't to blame for the loss yesterday, but he is a junior who is supposed to be able to shoot the ball and game after game this season he has disappeared in crunch time. He has been overrated since day one IMO, but he plays hard and does what he can. I think he is turning into the poster child for the limitations in state kids have trying to play in the big ten. Fair or unfair, he is perceived as our "go to" guy and he hasn't delivered.

I thought McCaffrey did a pretty poor job of game management. We had our clown shoes on for multiple possessions under 6 minutes and desperately needed a TO. I also think running that play for Gatens was about the most predictable play to call and using him as a decoy to free up Cartwright or even McCabe (granted not many great options) for an open look vs. dribble left, then behind your back and pull up with a guy in your jock shot. It looked the team hit the wall and guys were spent physically and emotionally, so not intended as a rant observation, just thought McCaffrey should have intervened to restore order when we were throwing the ball all over the place.
 
Also, where was Gatens when Kemba Walker hit that shot against Pitt? I can't confirm anything yet, but I have a team dissecting the Zapruder film looking for Matt because something's just not sitting well with me.
 
Matt Gatens is going to end up his career as one of the top Free Throw shooters in Iowa history and one of the Top10-15 scorers in Iowa Basketball history. How is this not an elite player for the Iowa Hawkeyes?
 
Smarthawk said:
Matt Gatens is going to end up his career as one of the top Free Throw shooters in Iowa history and one of the Top10-15 scorers in Iowa Basketball history. How is this not an elite player for the Iowa Hawkeyes?
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1. Free throw shooting alone doesn't not make a player elite
2. He's been starting for 4 years, and been one of the go-to guys for most of those 4 years. I'd expect him to finish in the top 15.

He's been a good, serviceable player. But he's not even close to elite, even in just program history.
 
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