Fry & Ferentz Records vs. Big 10 Teams + Iowa St.

Yes, ISU was really bad back in the day...and they've also been pretty bad in the Ferentz era (except for when they had Seneca W.) - yet KF has always lacked the killer instinct that Fry had when it came to playing his in-state rival.
If ISU was a 15-pt dog, Fry beat 'em by 30 or more! No courtesies extended.
With KF at the helm ISU and their fan base have somehow had an assumption that they would win against Iowa.
Aren't you just so !^#@-ing sick of hearing "Well, for ISU this is their bowl game!"
Sick to death of that... and KF allowed that mindset to happen and to take root instead of beating the hell out of a bad team when you're supposed to.
 
DDThompson said:
This is a good summary of Big10 football for 2 decades.

No one thought Michigan would go into a decade long mediocre purgatory; MSU took advantage.

The OP's posting of records demonstrates once again how cyclical college football is. Fortunately, Iowa's down cycles since Fry took over have only been 2-3 years. Fry's Hawks seem more consistent. KF's Hawks have had higher highs and with that more frustrating lows.
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Higher highs? How so? Iowa wins Roses and they are top several teams. Fry had a 1 loss team. Not so KF (but that's being petty). Personally I felt far worse under bad years with Fry than with KF.

What is different is that HF's down years usually related to losing assistants to HC positions.

Some of you are missing some really good Illinois teams that fought HF. Indiana was no slouch when he came. MSU was up and down. MN was probably overall better then than now. Wisky started to get better in the days of HF. Purdue was up and down.

Just don't think the different eras mean much. OSU is still really good.In most years, In most years either UM or PSU is really good.

Seriously, nothing much has changed except that HF seriously challenged the status quo in more years than KF.

HF used to do coaching that drove us all nuts at times. No one doubted his desire to win. ISU in fairness has generally been worse in KF years than HF years. The 1985 team Iowa pounded was not a bad team at all.
 
The Big LeHAWKski said:
Yes, ISU was really bad back in the day...and they've also been pretty bad in the Ferentz era (except for when they had Seneca W.) - yet KF has always lacked the killer instinct that Fry had when it came to playing his in-state rival.
If ISU was a 15-pt dog, Fry beat 'em by 30 or more! No courtesies extended.
With KF at the helm ISU and their fan base have somehow had an assumption that they would win against Iowa.
Aren't you just so !^#@-ing sick of hearing "Well, for ISU this is their bowl game!"
Sick to death of that... and KF allowed that mindset to happen and to take root instead of beating the hell out of a bad team when you're supposed to.
Click to expand...

ISU had much, much better teams in the KF era. They had a 9 win team and (5) 7 win teams. During Hayden's 20 years ISU didn't have a single teams win 7 games or more.
 
HawkGold said:
Higher highs? How so? Iowa wins Roses and they are top several teams. Fry had a 1 loss team. Not so KF (but that's being petty). Personally I felt far worse under bad years with Fry than with KF.

What is different is that HF's down years usually related to losing assistants to HC positions.

Some of you are missing some really good Illinois teams that fought HF. Indiana was no slouch when he came. MSU was up and down. MN was probably overall better then than now. Wisky started to get better in the days of HF. Purdue was up and down.

Just don't think the different eras mean much. OSU is still really good.In most years, In most years either UM or PSU is really good.

Seriously, nothing much has changed except that HF seriously challenged the status quo in more years than KF.

HF used to do coaching that drove us all nuts at times. No one doubted his desire to win. ISU in fairness has generally been worse in KF years than HF years. The 1985 team Iowa pounded was not a bad team at all.
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Here are the winning % of the B1G teams durning the Hayden Era.

Northwestern (27%)
Minnesota (37%)
Purdue (44%)
Indiana (45%)
Illinois (48%)
MSU (48%)
Wisconsin (49%)

Same teams winning % from 1999-2016 the KF Era

Indiana (.36%)
Illinois (40%)
Purdue (45%)
Northwestern (51%)
Minnesota (50%)
MSU (60%)
Wisconsin (70%)

While the bottom 3 stayed stayed just as soft in the B1G, it looks like there were many more winning teams that KF had to face. During all of Hayden's Era there were only 2 teams he had to face in the B1G that had an above .500 record (OSU and Michigan) add in Penn St. in the later years.

KF has had to face much, much better B1G than Hayden ever had to. Wisconsin and MSU have been a force during KF era. Northwestern and Minnesota are both above .500 teams. Nebraska was added to the league, Penn St. has been in the B1G the entire time. It isn't even close, it is so much more difficult than what Hayden had to face.
 
Is that overall records or conference records, dean?

But don't you know the only thing that's changed from HF to KF is KF's ultra-conservative offense and his big fat contract? /sarcasm
 
deanvogs said:
ISU had much, much better teams in the KF era. They had a 9 win team and (5) 7 win teams. During Hayden's 20 years ISU didn't have a single teams win 7 games or more.
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30% vs 39% wins. Better...yes. MUCH MUCH better...no. Addition of the12th game also gave them one more cupcake W every year.

FYI, ISU's biggest surge came when KFz took over.

They went 8-3, 8-4 and 8-4 before Hayden was hired. He drove a stake into the ground that he was going to own the state...the slid backwards. No coincidence.
 
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DDThompson said:
Is that overall records or conference records, dean?

But don't you know the only thing that's changed from HF to KF is KF's ultra-conservative offense and his big fat contract? /sarcasm
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To be fair, crazy coach's contracts were not rampant 30 years ago. Would HF have the same financial treatment following his first 7 years? Nobody knows, but boy open up that box for discussion!
 
hawkdrummer1 said:
30% vs 39% wins. Better...yes. MUCH MUCH better...no. Addition of the12th game also gave them one more cupcake W every year.

FYI, ISU's biggest surge came when KFz took over.

They went 8-3, 8-4 and 8-4 before Hayden was hired. He drove a stake into the ground that he was going to own the state...the slid backwards. No coincidence.
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I didn't even talk about ISU, I was just talking about the B1G as a whole. Hayden didn't face the quality that KF has had to. It was the top 2 and then nothing much when Fry showed up in Iowa City. I'm not complaining, but let's be honest about it. Anytime you play Minnesota, Northwestern, Nebraska and Wisconsin those 4 are all tougher than anything not name OSU or Michigan that Hayden had to play during his time. That isn't even counting Penn. St. and Michigan St. from the East.
 
deanvogs said:
ISU had much, much better teams in the KF era. They had a 9 win team and (5) 7 win teams. During Hayden's 20 years ISU didn't have a single teams win 7 games or more.
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That 9 win team came in 2000 and 4 or of those 5 (7) win teams were 2005 and before. K-F is 9-9 against ISU it feels like it should be in that 12-6/11-7 range.
 
trj said:
That 9 win team came in 2000 and 4 or of those 5 (7) win teams were 2005 and before. K-F is 9-9 against ISU it feels like it should be in that 12-6/11-7 range.
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KF started 0-4 vs ISU and he is 9-5 vs them since then. The big problem is the fact that if ISU is about as good as Iowa, they always win that game. They beat us in 2012, 2011, 2005 when the teams were actually similar in record. Then they upset us in 2014 and 2007, when we were clearing a much, much better team.

The good news in ISU really only has upset Iowa 2 times in the last 14 years. The bad news is KF just can't beat ISU if they have a season similar to Iowas (6-6/7-5 teams). That has to change.
 
HawkGold said:
Higher highs? How so? Iowa wins Roses and they are top several teams. Fry had a 1 loss team. Not so KF (but that's being petty).
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Fry's one loss team also had a tie. He only had one other team with two losses. Ferentz has had four.

Fry had 10 teams ranked in final AP top 25 -- two finished in top 10. Both were ranked #10.

Ferentz has had 6 teams ranked in final AP 25 -- five finished in single digits. Plus, most wins in a season.

Fry changed the culture of Iowa football (and Big10 football). I loved him as a kid.

I appreciate what Ferentz has accomplished; it can be argued that he has taken Iowa to heights that Fry didn't. But only six top 25 AP finishes in 17 seasons is underwhelming.
 
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deanvogs said:
I didn't even talk about ISU, I was just talking about the B1G as a whole. Hayden didn't face the quality that KF has had to. It was the top 2 and then nothing much when Fry showed up in Iowa City. I'm not complaining, but let's be honest about it. Anytime you play Minnesota, Northwestern, Nebraska and Wisconsin those 4 are all tougher than anything not name OSU or Michigan that Hayden had to play during his time. That isn't even counting Penn. St. and Michigan St. from the East.
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B1G is better top to bottom, no doubt. It's also a different landscape in many ways...tough to compare 2010 to 1980. TV $$ has given all of the schools the resources to build a solid program. Not so in 1980. That's what makes Hayden's accomplishments all the more impressive. He took an 18 year loser and built it into a Championship contender in 3 years, during the Big 2, Little 8 era. Also of note, the 12 game schedule which began in 2006 gives a Power 5 program one more cupcake every year...so that helps a bit.

Nice to have the luxury of debating which guy did better... 40 years of a damn good football program with two classy coaches.
 
I always give the nod to Fry because of the culture change. What's impressive about Ferentz is he took over after a legend and he has succeeded. It's not common for that to happen. Look at Texas and their success under Mack Brown. They were very good but at the end it wasn't so good just like Fry. Texas hasn't got back yet. South Carolina under Spurrier is another example. We've been pretty successful for almost 40 years. Not a lot of programs can say that. The ones that have have been in much better areas that give them recruiting advantages. ISU with the exception of a few years under McCarney has been pathetic for pretty much 40 years.
 
Fry finished ranked 50% of the time

KF finished ranked 33%

If you're not ranked, you're not relevant.

9945242.jpg
 
Joshbrown said:
Fry finished ranked 50% of the time

KF finished ranked 33%

If you're not ranked, you're not relevant.
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True. That's what is so frustrating about Ferentz. Seems like a loss each year to an inferior team prevented a ranked season.

When Fry finished ranked, 80% of the time it was the bottom ten --- #15-#25

When Ferentz finishes ranked 90% of the time it is the top ten --- #7 #8 #8 #8 #9

Fry never had any team finish as high as Ferentz's top five teams.

9945242.jpg
 
hawkdrummer1 said:
B1G is better top to bottom, no doubt. It's also a different landscape in many ways...tough to compare 2010 to 1980. TV $$ has given all of the schools the resources to build a solid program. Not so in 1980. That's what makes Hayden's accomplishments all the more impressive. He took an 18 year loser and built it into a Championship contender in 3 years, during the Big 2, Little 8 era. Also of note, the 12 game schedule which began in 2006 gives a Power 5 program one more cupcake every year...so that helps a bit.

Nice to have the luxury of debating which guy did better... 40 years of a damn good football program with two classy coaches.
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I hate this debate. It is one of those debates where you like the other side, but you have to tear down the other side to make your point. Based on my age and the era I grew up in, unless someone goes on a just ridiculous run I will always have a bias for Hayden. I just will.
 
DDThompson said:
Fry's one loss team also had a tie. He only had one other team with two losses. Ferentz has had four.

Fry had 10 teams ranked in final AP top 25 -- two finished in top 10. Both were ranked #10.

Ferentz has had 6 teams ranked in final AP 25 -- five finished in single digits. Plus, most wins in a season.

Fry changed the culture of Iowa football (and Big10 football). I loved him as a kid.

I appreciate what Ferentz has accomplished; it can be argued that he has taken Iowa to heights that Fry didn't. But only six top 25 AP finishes in 17 seasons is underwhelming.
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Nice points. Technically the year with a tie saw 1.5 losses.
 
deanvogs said:
Here are the winning % of the B1G teams durning the Hayden Era.

Northwestern (27%)
Minnesota (37%)
Purdue (44%)
Indiana (45%)
Illinois (48%)
MSU (48%)
Wisconsin (49%)

Same teams winning % from 1999-2016 the KF Era

Indiana (.36%)
Illinois (40%)
Purdue (45%)
Northwestern (51%)
Minnesota (50%)
MSU (60%)
Wisconsin (70%)

While the bottom 3 stayed stayed just as soft in the B1G, it looks like there were many more winning teams that KF had to face. During all of Hayden's Era there were only 2 teams he had to face in the B1G that had an above .500 record (OSU and Michigan) add in Penn St. in the later years.

KF has had to face much, much better B1G than Hayden ever had to. Wisconsin and MSU have been a force during KF era. Northwestern and Minnesota are both above .500 teams. Nebraska was added to the league, Penn St. has been in the B1G the entire time. It isn't even close, it is so much more difficult than what Hayden had to face.
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One thing you left out is KF has had years where the schedule was VERY lame.

It's a fun argument.

As I've said before, KF gets into trouble as he disses Iowa and makes excuses. HF said the same thing, only in manner hat made one proud to be from Iowa.

KF gets some conservative elements from HF. We held our breathe when HF applied for USC. We were all shocked but he gave a very valid reason. He wanted to win a national championship more quicky.

HF's teams dropped heavily due to getting smoked in Husky and Bear poop. His big losses didn't hurt as much as some of KF's more recent one's.

HF never made a spectacle out of contracts.
 
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