Fry & Ferentz Records vs. Big 10 Teams + Iowa St.

OP- Outstanding post/compilation.

An objective look at the numbers makes it appear that the Fry years were by far superior. But personally, I much prefer the KF era, despite the data. It took a few moments to understand why-- I believe it's because KF's teams are very competitive on the field against the best programs. For example, KF's record against OSU is no better than Fry's but damn it, the bad guys had to squeak by in most. The record could shoulda been nearly even. This becomes evident (and additionally demonstrates that the football-field, much like the bedroom, hosts a game where every inch can count) in KF's better record against Mich and PSU. That's not to say HF whupping of the cream-puffs including Wisky wasn't fun. But KF is da man.

All that said, Iowa FB didn't exist for me until the 91 Rose bowl...so I missed the best of HF.
 
I'd like to see what a Pat Fitz NW team would do to one of the 1980's NW teams. With the exception of two rose bowl seasons, NW was beyond dreadful in the fry era. Fitz's teams have been middle of the road in the big 10 most of the time
 
Northwestern, Wisconsin and Iowa State were ALL incredibly bad during Fry's time. I mean bad like a terrible MAC team bad.
 
NCHawker said:
Penn State and Michigan have been in decline during the Ferentz era, with a few nice years mixed in.

HERE IS A TREND MSU, and Wisconsin have passed Iowa in recruiting and on the field.
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No doubt they've had more success than Iowa on the field the past 5 yrs, but it really hasn't translated into great recruiting classes:
SCOUT team rankings:

YEARIOWAMSUWISC
2014402726
2013514537
2012473863
2011262936
2010453233
ave41.834.239


Since 2002 when Scout began compiling recruiting rankings:
Iowa #40 ave ranking
MSU #42
Wisc # 39

So MSU is the only one who has really gained/lost anything in recruiting rankings going from 42 to 34 ave rank.
 
guffus said:
One thing you could argue is that Fry benefited during his era that Iowa State, Wisconsin and NW all sucked in the 80's and early 90's. Of course you argue that Fry was part of the reason their records were so bad..
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Not only were those programs horrible, near all time program nadirs, all three of those programs have hit program zenith's while Ferentz has been the coach at Iowa.

That said, Michigan has been down during the Ferentz era and they never were during the Fry era. Illinois was better in the Fry era, too...Michigan State, on balance, similar (while they are trending very good as of late).

Hayden is the architect...always will be. But Kirk has done about as well as anyone could have hoped for...as long as those people are looking at it realistically
 
LG210 said:
Exactly. The team-by-team comparison is tough given the dynamic nature of each individual program and the league as a whole.

Personally, I think there is a lot more parity in the B10 now than there was in Fry's time. If you are a middle-to-upper-middle team like Iowa, that parity would seem to make wins more difficult in general.
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Yes, there is more parity in the B1G than there was in the Big 10/Big Ten, but a big part of that WAS the fact Fry broke that stranglehold. Before the 1981 Hawkeyes, the previous non-O$U-Michigan team to play in the Rose Bowl was Indiana from the 1967 season (the 1979 MSU team was "champion", but didn't play in Rose Bowl due to being on probation). Fry breaking that stranglehold--and he DID break it, since MSUs probation was no asterisk, but an actual punishment--was HUGE. Other Big 10 teams saw that teams COULD win in Ann Arbor, without the "top" recruits, and without All-Americans stacked on both sides of the ball. A great defense OR offense, good special teams and not squandering opportunities paid off. 1981 Wisconsin beat Michigan the same day the Hawks beat Nebraska. I seriously doubt ANY "pundit" picked ONE of those outcomes, let alone BOTH of them.
 
UNIhawk34 said:
Ferentz's record against Northwestern is what truly slays me. They've only really had 1-2 good seasons during the past 20 years yet we somehow manage to "underperform" when we play them. Fry didn't really have too many problems. Yet you can look at Ferentz's record against Michigan and it is definitely better than Fry's. Why this is the way it is, I'll never understand. I'd really like to see Iowa do better against those trolls from Madison. Fry teams were playing UW when they were lousy. It wasn't until Alvarez (Hawkeye) and Big-nosed Bielema (Hawkeye) turned their program around (if you can even count Bielema in this equation). Now we need to take control of that series again.
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Northwestern is a completely different program now as opposed to most of Fry's time. Northwestern from 1979 through 1994 won 33 total games in 16 years, about 2 games a year. 3 of those seasons they won no games, with another year winning just 1. Truly awful, perhaps only Kansas state rivaled Northwestern in futility during that time. Northwestern was an automatic win for everyone, not just Iowa.

Since 1995, Northwestern has won 116 games in 18 years, for more than 6 games a year. Not an elite program by any means, but one that has defeated plenty of teams. Two 10-win seasons in that time and 2 Rose Bowl appearances. Has Iowa underperformed against Northwestern? Probably yes, but it's silly to think that Northwestern should "never" beat Iowa. This is not the Francis Peay Wildcats of 1989.

Some teams are just better match ups against each other than others. KF has a winning record against Michigan and PSU. Who can explain these things? Not me. As much luck probably than anything.
 
JonDMiller said:
Not only were those programs horrible, near all time program nadirs, all three of those programs have hit program zenith's while Ferentz has been the coach at Iowa.

That said, Michigan has been down during the Ferentz era and they never were during the Fry era. Illinois was better in the Fry era, too...Michigan State, on balance, similar (while they are trending very good as of late).

Hayden is the architect...always will be. But Kirk has done about as well as anyone could have hoped for...as long as those people are looking at it realistically
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Be careful Jon. Salary! All the staff needs to do is try harder! Elite program is our birthright!
 
Not disagreeing that NW has been decent since 95 but NW has only been to 1 Rose Bowl in the Fry-Ferentz eras. It is true that NW has 3 big ten titles total in that time, but only 1 Rose Bowl.
 
UNIhawk34 said:
Ferentz's record against Northwestern is what truly slays me. They've only really had 1-2 good seasons during the past 20 years yet we somehow manage to "underperform" when we play them. Fry didn't really have too many problems. Yet you can look at Ferentz's record against Michigan and it is definitely better than Fry's. Why this is the way it is, I'll never understand. I'd really like to see Iowa do better against those trolls from Madison. Fry teams were playing UW when they were lousy. It wasn't until Alvarez (Hawkeye) and Big-nosed Bielema (Hawkeye) turned their program around (if you can even count Bielema in this equation). Now we need to take control of that series again.
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Alvarez was 2-5 against Fry
 
SpiderRico said:
I'm sure this has been talked about before, but I thought the old rules to determine Rose Bowl participation was:

1. Big 10 record
2. Head to head matchup
3. Longer Rose Bowl drought

We both had identical 8-0 B1G records, we didn't play each other, so wouldn't we have gone since they had gone more recently?
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No, the 3rd tie breaker was overall record, then 4th was longest Rose Bowl drought.
 
HawkIMalaise said:
I composed the records of Fry and Ferentz against the current Big 10 teams minus Rutgers and Maryland plus Iowa State. So basically I included Penn St. Nebraska even when they weren't in the Big 10 conference.


W-L W-L
Nebraska: Fry 1-3 Ferentz 1-4
Minnesota:Fry 12-8 Ferentz 10-5
Wisconsin:Fry 15-2-1 Ferentz 6-7
Iowa St. :Fry 16-4 Ferentz 6-8
Illinois: Fry 10-8 Ferentz 5-3
Purdue: Fry 13-5 Ferentz 7-4
NW: Fry 17-3 Ferentz 6-7
Indiana: Fry 11-5 Ferentz 7-5
O$U: Fry 3-12-1 Ferentz 1-8
Mich St. Fry 11-3-1 Ferentz 7-6
Michigan: Fry 4-11-1 Ferentz 6-5
Penn St. Fry 2-3 Ferentz 8-4

I highlighted a few that stand out to me. MSU also stands out.
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I feel like Kirk has played and won more against Nebraska. I've personally seen him win against them 3 times or so in the last 4 years.
 
HawkinGoferLand said:
Northwestern, Wisconsin and Iowa State were ALL incredibly bad during Fry's time. I mean bad like a terrible MAC team bad.
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ISU had roughly a 30% win rate during Hayden's tenure and 39% during Kirk's. Both pretty bad.

What I find interesting is that ISU was 24-11 in the years right before Hayden was hired. (almost 69%). They never got back there....which I'd say is at least in some part due to Hayden declaring that owning the state...was one of the first building blocks he'd focus on.

Equally curious, is that their next surge happened in Kirk's first 5-6 years.
 
okeefe4prez said:
The issue is every team saw what Hayden did and most ADs are smart enough to understand that they couldn't compete with Michigan and OSU year in and year out and so every team put a target on Iowa with the goal of displacing us as a team that was regularly the "best of the rest" with the occasional miracle year where we bested the big boys. Instead of bashing Ferentz or our athletic department, I have to give credit to Wisconsin, Northwestern and MSU because they've been reasonably successful...
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This is a good summary of Big10 football for 2 decades.

No one thought Michigan would go into a decade long mediocre purgatory; MSU took advantage.

The OP's posting of records demonstrates once again how cyclical college football is. Fortunately, Iowa's down cycles since Fry took over have only been 2-3 years. Fry's Hawks seem more consistent. KF's Hawks have had higher highs and with that more frustrating lows.
 
JonDMiller said:
Not only were those programs horrible, near all time program nadirs, all three of those programs have hit program zenith's while Ferentz has been the coach at Iowa.

That said, Michigan has been down during the Ferentz era and they never were during the Fry era. Illinois was better in the Fry era, too...Michigan State, on balance, similar (while they are trending very good as of late).

Hayden is the architect...always will be. But Kirk has done about as well as anyone could have hoped for...as long as those people are looking at it realistically
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Well put. Kirk's achilles heel will always be his stumbles against lesser teams (ISU being exhibit 1A). Nothing short of a NC will put him ahead of Hayden. The program has been in good hands for nearly 40 years.
 
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