Frustrating...

[uihawk82]

We all know where are weakness is and it reared it’s ugly head one third of the way through the second half. We could guard or stop the opposing position while our players couldn’t get open shots or hit shots when tour players were open.

They gave a valiant effort in the first half. This game just shows what the difference is between a top three B1G conference team looks like and what mid-tier (us) conference team looks like. We just need to bounce back and get another win streak going and get into the NCAA tournament. Like someone said on another thread I can see us winning the first round in the NCAA but winning the next round and getting to the sweet 16 would be about the best we could possible expect with the weakness that has haunted Fran in recruiting at one particular position. We all know what that position is, unless you have been living under a rock, but it is what it is and we can only support and cheer these kids on and hope for the best. It’s not a lack of effort, it’s just that speed (quickness) kills, or a lack of it in our case.

Say the position, it is point guard. JBo is probably a great 2 guard when he doesnt have to expend so much energy dribbling and trying to get the offense going and when he is also guarding the other teams point guard.

Fran has just failed to get a top flight point guard, Gesell was above avg as was Cartwright and Marble but really none of these players could totally break down another team's defense, penetrate totally at will, drive and finish high at the rim (Gesell's big problem because if he could have just finger rolled in most of his drives he could have been outstanding as he was good at penetrating and setting up his teammates).

Iowa will struggle as long as this continues. A top flight pt guard would be getting Cook many easy dunks a game as well as Garza and others easy lay ups

 

[BigD]

Say the position, it is point guard. JBo is probably a great 2 guard when he doesnt have to expend so much energy dribbling and trying to get the offense going and when he is also guarding the other teams point guard.

Fran has just failed to get a top flight point guard, Gesell was above avg as was Cartwright and Marble but really none of these players could totally break down another team's defense, penetrate totally at will, drive and finish high at the rim (Gesell's big problem because if he could have just finger rolled in most of his drives he could have been outstanding as he was good at penetrating and setting up his teammates).

Iowa will struggle as long as this continues. A top flight pt guard would be getting Cook many easy dunks a game as well as Garza and others easy lay ups

Well said.

 

[HuckFinn]

Iowa weakness continues to shine and that’s how weak our Backcourt is. Same o same o!!

Jbo simply outmatched and outclassed.

You just refuse to look at JBO"s body of work during the past 2 1/2 years. He will be back next year, big fella. Get over it. Was he outmatched by one of the best guards in the country? Not in the first half. JBO locked him up pretty well. And, JBO has played defense this year like a man possessed. Yeah. Not a great athlete. But, hey. He told you that. You did not come up with that on your own. He just continues to work harder than hell not to be a liability on D. When he finishes his senior year, I want you to list all of the records he has amassed, and then swallow hard and apologize for your inability to evaluate players. Sorry for the rant, man, but your constant bitching about this kid is getting really old, and never has been very accurate.

 

[HuckFinn]

Say the position, it is point guard. JBo is probably a great 2 guard when he doesnt have to expend so much energy dribbling and trying to get the offense going and when he is also guarding the other teams point guard.

Fran has just failed to get a top flight point guard, Gesell was above avg as was Cartwright and Marble but really none of these players could totally break down another team's defense, penetrate totally at will, drive and finish high at the rim (Gesell's big problem because if he could have just finger rolled in most of his drives he could have been outstanding as he was good at penetrating and setting up his teammates).

Iowa will struggle as long as this continues. A top flight pt guard would be getting Cook many easy dunks a game as well as Garza and others easy lay ups

The problem with your post is that JBO HAS gotten Cook many easy inside scores, as well as good numbers of assists to Garza. Look at his assist to turnover ratio during his 2 1/2 years at Iowa and where he will be after he graduates next year. Then I will listen to you.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

You just refuse to look at JBO"s body of work during the past 2 1/2 years. He will be back next year, big fella. Get over it. Was he outmatched by one of the best guards in the country? Not in the first half. JBO locked him up pretty well. And, JBO has played defense this year like a man possessed. Yeah. Not a great athlete. But, hey. He told you that. You did not come up with that on your own. He just continues to work harder than hell not to be a liability on D. When he finishes his senior year, I want you to list all of the records he has amassed, and then swallow hard and apologize for your inability to evaluate players. Sorry for the rant, man, but your constant bitching about this kid is getting really old, and never has been very accurate.

My constant bitch about him LMAO! You must have me confused with someone buddy ol pal.

 

[karras]

The frustrating part of that game to me was it looked like we should have had a chance to beat them. But objectively they are the better team. Between the free throw/foul discrepancy and how we just got cold as all get out for a long stretch while they got hot we just weren't going to beat them. What was it a 24-2 run or something like that? There's no overcoming a stretch like that at any point in a game. They turned it over a lot in the first half it seemed like and once they settled down and stopped doing that we were going to have a fight on our hands.
It's too bad. To have the lead at half and it look like we could take it to them at times we just couldn't keep them from getting good looks. Or knock in 3s of our own. We played well in the paint Cook and Garza kept us in it but if JBo, Moss and JW are goin to all struggle we just can't overcome that against a good team like that.

They didn't need the refs help but they did get it. No surprise there I guess. That's par for the course for Izzo. It's almost a good thing it wasn't close at the end because that would have been the headline if so...

Izzo is one of the top 3 basketball coaches in the NCAA. MSU has held onto him for 24 yrs. 7 conf. championships - 6 finals 4s and a national title. Losing to MSU isn't the sort of thing you want to blame on refs or hang your head about.
MSU is a basketball school with a respectable football program. Jud Heathcoat was a good coach followed by Izzo. Iowa got rid of Tom Davis hoping to find their own Izzo. Problem is Bowlsby and Barta reflect an administration that is comfortable with slightly above average and that leads to Iowa holding onto subpar too long. Lick confirmed all their fears, that you can only go one way when you fire a coach. It's not true but it fits a narrative designed by people in high-paying jobs who are desperate to hold onto those jobs and understand if you're not great, you better be good at lowering expectations. And they are better at that than competing for conference crowns.

Fran and Kirk are good at assembling talent, but not too good as game-day coaches. Still, I'd like to know why Fran didn't pursue Hayes with more gusto, just like I'd like to know why Kirk has so many legacies like AJ Derby and Drew Cook who never contribute or never get recruited in the first place.

Having said all this Fran does have a squad with the ability to keep us in the top half of the conference and get to the dance for the next several years. Getting XF would certainly help Iowa get back to relevance. And I think the best we can hope for with Fran is relevance.

 

[deanvogs]

Trading out JW for Ahmad Wagner has a little to do with that. And of course CM. I bet JBos mins are down a little from last yr. Combining all that pretty much attributes to JBos stats tailing off. His shooting not being so good is frustrating though

Jordan’s assists are down because he doesn’t play the PG position for 35 MPG like he did last year. Now he plays PG for 20 MPG and off guards 10 MPG. So his assist numbers being down aren’t concerning to me at all.

His 3 pt % being off is concerning tho. He shot over 41% and 43% his first two years behind the arc, and is only hitting 37% this year. Now 37% isn’t horrible, but it is a decrease in his production and that isn’t good.

 

[deanvogs]

Fixed that for you. Bohannon is .376 from 3 this year and .341 from 2!!

Of our starters he's the worst % shooter by a loooong ways. In fact, he's the worst 2PT shooter on the entire team. We're 20 games into the season for god's sake, this isn't just a slump anymore. Maybe not shooting from 27' would help the odds.

The only "tired narrative" here is trying to convince people what a great shooter Bohannon is and how he's Larry Bird from 3. Stats don't lie.

Good lord Fry, do you even understand basketball? There is a reason the game has become a perimeter game. When you shoot 40% from 3 that is equivalent to shooting 60% from 2 pt land. Jordan is allowed to shoot whenever and where ever he wants because he is a Jr who shot 41% from 3 as a Fr and 43% from 3 as a So shooting deep all the time. While I’m not a fan of Fran he does rightly want his players to take shots and shoot through slumps. That is the only way to get right. Heck even at Jordan’s current 37% from 3 that is still almost equivalent to 56% from 2.

Learn the game before you start railing on a guy who is a career 41.3% 3 point shooter for shooting 3’s.

 

[earlkoppelman]

Iowa weakness continues to shine and that’s how weak our Backcourt is. Same o same o!!

Jbo simply outmatched and outclassed.

Jbo is 3 point long range shooter with other guard skills. Special very in situations. But has limitations in some areas. Tough Hawk like other Hawk Players. Coaching ect got us here. We shall see WHAT H/C and Staff do to work with players to beat Minny. A very very Do-Able. Go Tough Hawk Player!

 

[trj]

It was just the wrong team to miss a ton of easy baskets and clean looks. A lesser opponent you could shoot poorly and get away with it. That's all I took out of the MSU game.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Good lord Fry, do you even understand basketball? There is a reason the game has become a perimeter game. When you shoot 40% from 3 that is equivalent to shooting 60% from 2 pt land. Jordan is allowed to shoot whenever and where ever he wants because he is a Jr who shot 41% from 3 as a Fr and 43% from 3 as a So shooting deep all the time. While I’m not a fan of Fran he does rightly want his players to take shots and shoot through slumps. That is the only way to get right. Heck even at Jordan’s current 37% from 3 that is still almost equivalent to 56% from 2.

Learn the game before you start railing on a guy who is a career 41.3% 3 point shooter for shooting 3’s.

Not to mention he’s shooting 40% from 3 in conference and Iowa went undefeated in the Non-Conference so he picked a good time for a semi slump.

 

[revkev73]

Izzo is one of the top 3 basketball coaches in the NCAA. MSU has held onto him for 24 yrs. 7 conf. championships - 6 finals 4s and a national title. Losing to MSU isn't the sort of thing you want to blame on refs or hang your head about.
MSU is a basketball school with a respectable football program. Jud Heathcoat was a good coach followed by Izzo. Iowa got rid of Tom Davis hoping to find their own Izzo. Problem is Bowlsby and Barta reflect an administration that is comfortable with slightly above average and that leads to Iowa holding onto subpar too long. Lick confirmed all their fears, that you can only go one way when you fire a coach. It's not true but it fits a narrative designed by people in high-paying jobs who are desperate to hold onto those jobs and understand if you're not great, you better be good at lowering expectations. And they are better at that than competing for conference crowns.

Fran and Kirk are good at assembling talent, but not too good as game-day coaches. Still, I'd like to know why Fran didn't pursue Hayes with more gusto, just like I'd like to know why Kirk has so many legacies like AJ Derby and Drew Cook who never contribute or never get recruited in the first place.

Having said all this Fran does have a squad with the ability to keep us in the top half of the conference and get to the dance for the next several years. Getting XF would certainly help Iowa get back to relevance. And I think the best we can hope for with Fran is relevance.

Izzo made adjustments to win, Fran, confused, game flow too fast.

 

[deanvogs]

Izzo made adjustments to win, Fran, confused, game flow too fast.

That loss wasn’t on Fran, and I’m not one who likes Fran much. We didn’t hit shots, not only that but we were missing very makable shots. Some of those 3’s were wide open, and Cook and Garza went on. Stretch of missing about 5 easy inside of 10’ shots in a row it seemed.

 

[revkev73]

That loss wasn’t on Fran, and I’m not one who likes Fran much. We didn’t hit shots, not only that but we were missing very makable shots. Some of those 3’s were wide open, and Cook and Garza went on. Stretch of missing about 5 easy inside of 10’ shots in a row it seemed.

I agree, but what adjustments did he make? Izzo made adjustments to win.

You will lose a lot of games trying to rely upon 25 foot three pointers.

It did seem like so many of Iowa's shots "should have" gone down but didn't. Sigh. Iowa seemed nervous, MSU, seemed to "know" they would win, and it was just a matter of time. Talent/experience/depth/coaching.

MSU had the big shots taken and made by the big time players. Over.

Not blaming Fran, MSU is a much better team. Tweaking during the game isn't a strength of his, it seems.

 

[DDThompson]

Say the position, it is point guard. JBo is probably a great 2 guard when he doesnt have to expend so much energy dribbling and trying to get the offense going and when he is also guarding the other teams point guard.

Fran has just failed to get a top flight point guard, Gesell was above avg as was Cartwright and Marble but really none of these players could totally break down another team's defense, penetrate totally at will, drive and finish high at the rim (Gesell's big problem because if he could have just finger rolled in most of his drives he could have been outstanding as he was good at penetrating and setting up his teammates).

Iowa will struggle as long as this continues. A top flight pt guard would be getting Cook many easy dunks a game as well as Garza and others easy lay ups

This. JBo is out-of-position.

To say he is outclassed is just sophomoric vitriol.

 

[deanvogs]

I agree, but what adjustments did he make? Izzo made adjustments to win.

You will lose a lot of games trying to rely upon 25 foot three pointers.

It did seem like so many of Iowa's shots "should have" gone down but didn't. Sigh. Iowa seemed nervous, MSU, seemed to "know" they would win, and it was just a matter of time. Talent/experience/depth/coaching.

MSU had the big shots taken and made by the big time players. Over.

Not blaming Fran, MSU is a much better team. Tweaking during the game isn't a strength of his, it seems.

Honestly what adjustments did Izzo make? Seems to me that they just stopped turning over the ball and Winston took over. It ain’t like Izzo told Winston to NOT take over in the first half and then told him to dominate the 2nd half.

It is BB, we got beat by a better team who played a more solid game than us. If we were going to beat MSU we needed to play much cleaner, shoot better, while they struggled some.

 

[DDThompson]

That loss wasn’t on Fran, and I’m not one who likes Fran much. We didn’t hit shots, not only that but we were missing very makable shots. Some of those 3’s were wide open, and Cook and Garza went on. Stretch of missing about 5 easy inside of 10’ shots in a row it seemed.

This.

This loss wasn't on Fran. But he didn't help the team either.

when he says that MSU did nothing different to stop Cook after TC began dominating the game the second half. What did Fran do to correct that when his team stopped going to Cook if MSU did nothing wrong?

He called the timeout when MSU went on the run and took the lead. Too late. Iowa had deer-in-the-semi-truck-lights. MSU driving the semi-truck.

Lineups again are ??? -- Connor, Dailey, Kreiner, Baer should not be on the floor at the same time unless it's garbage time.



I know, I know. It's Fran. Those things are baked into the cake.

 

[DDThompson]

Izzo's adjustments were that he told his shooters to shoot and they started making their 3s and Fran's adjustments were that he told his shooters to keep taking shots and they kept missing.

Obviously, when you make your shots, everything looks better. Defense, coaching, ref-ing.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Fran's got to shoulder some blame here for that 24-2 run. My god, when they go on the first run...to go up 53-50, Fran gets his timeout, he's got to tell his team...we have to get the ball on the block and work through Garza and Cook on EVERY possession. What got us in trouble at MSU was settling for long range shots and missing them for a long stretch...and the game was over. Fran's philosophy of giving everyone the green light is wrong when a team is on a run like that. You have to score and slow down their transition. Cook or Garza needed to go strong to the basket and get a bucket or get fouled...if the refs will hopefully call it.

Think about it...Cook took his first jump shot during that stretch? Why? Jobo is launching...Weiskamp launching...Baer launching. It's awful coaching...we should have been using the entire shot clock to get something down low on EVERY POSSESSION...Fran didn't do it and frankly never has.

I've said this on her before...if Bohannon is making his threes, play him. If he's struggling, sit him. He's a defensive liability against that type of guard...a big one who can penetrate. Winston also gets a foul when anyone is in the zip code defending him which is crazy. Jobo is not just costing you on one end...it's both. I was really disappointed in the way he played during that stretch and I would have benched him. He loafed for a loose ball, their guy didn't, and they score...he then goes down on the offensive end and immediately makes a horrible cross court pass and they go down and hit a three. He then hung his head. If he's going good offensively...he plays with more energy on defense. That was disappointing.

I said before this game that Connor, Moss, and Dailey needed to play if Bohannon wasn't burying threes. I think that is the recipe if he's struggling.

 

[DDThompson]

Can't stand Izzo but I like the way he coaches.

When he has a player screw up, he pulls them immediately and talks/yells at them when they come to the bench. It reinforces the idea that if they don't do what he wants then they won't be playing. Then he lets them think about it for a couple of minutes and they are back on the floor playing in 2-3 minutes.

it doesn't do any good to scream at a player for something he did 5 minutes earlier when he comes off the floor when he may have made a couple of good plays or scored a couple of baskets since then. Or you let the screwup slide because he made a couple of good plays or scored a couple of baskets since then.


the lessons players learn are different even though they can be getting yelled at over the same things.