99topdawg
Well-Known Member
Great post and stats. Thanks for sharing.
Add to this George Raveling was .591 overall and .481 in the Big Ten.
And remember that everyone said he was a bad coach.
Fran Is Quantitatively Steve Alford Now
- Thread starter Fryowa
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Add to this George Raveling was .591 overall and .481 in the Big Ten.
And remember that everyone said he was a bad coach.
Didn't Davis take his last team to the Sweet 16 in '99, his 3rd trip to the Sweet 16 in his 13 seasons as coach? That makes me think... can you imagine Iowa now not renewing the contract of a coach coming off a Sweet 16 season???!!!??? Let alone a likeable coach that didn't have anger or arrogance issues. Many of us were in support of that decision at the time, amazing how that looks unbelievable now.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Davis' handling, or lack of handling, of Chris Kingsbury's on and off court antics may of led to his final fate. When the university finally had to do what Davis wouldn't, suspend Chris for a game, it wasn't a good look for anyone.
Several other players like Guy Rucker and Joey Range were eligible by all standards but weren't always going to class. It all became too much for Bob Bowlsby, the ultimate of image consciousness, to bear.
Bob had his eye on Steve Alford well before he ultimately hired him. He was, in Bob's eyes, everything a university could want in a young coach and person. While Davis was bowing out, in a half empty Carver, in the opening round of the NIT in 1998, Alford was advancing to a sweet sixteen of his own at SW Missouri State.
It was a dirty secret by December of Davis last year who Bowlsby was going to hire to replace him. Bob saw him as a potential Coach K, or at least a duplicate of Alford's mentor Bobby Knight. He was going to instill pride and discipline on and off the court.
The first thing Alford did as head coach was bounce Rucker off the team and get things off to such a bad start with Range that staying for Joey was impossible. It contributed heavily to the empty cupboard another poster alluded to Alford inheriting but Steve didn't care. Neither did Bob. Alford would have had a job for life at Iowa if Bowlsby had stayed. It would have been interesting to see how Bob would have responded to Alford's smug image around town, the way he treated people and staff, and his ongoing handling of Pierre Pierce, who committed off the court transgressions far more severe than anything Kingsbury ever did. Bob by then had his eye on other things, such as being the chair for the NCAA selection committee and ultimately a conference commish. He was AD in name only for at least the last three years he was here.
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Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
This just reiterates my earlier point. We are no longer recruiting the talent necessary to win conference titles and make deep NCAA runs. Three coaches in the last fifty years recruited that talent. Ralph Miller with juco's. Lute Olson by tapping heavily into the Chicago Catholic and Public leagues. George Raveling by raiding Illinois and Michigan.
When your competition is recruiting Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, Flint and Peoria you had better be in there fighting tooth and nail with them. Rumor has it that Raveling was getting his Michigan and Illinois recruits and what we could nicely say was a creative way. Maybe it's time to level the playing field in that regard as well.
Get a coach in here who is interested in winning, even if it will be somewhere else in five years, and the talent will improve. Because those coaches will fight tooth and nail for it. Fran is self proclaimed Philly. That area is an absolute hotbed for national talent. Where are his connections? Why isn't he getting players out of that area?
koralakers
Well-Known Member
Coming on the heels on the ABYSS we were in post-Lick, we OWE HIM A LOT for getting us 'above water', even fairly QUICKLY. To be honest, I wasn't sure we'd ever be competitive again. I think he deserves a little more grace.
That being said, if you want to compete for 'championships', it's all about RECRUITING. Gotta have the players. ALthough FM is an aggressive recruiter, he's always the 'bridesmaid' on the big ones. If he can pull one or two occasionally, I think we can take the next step.
Recruiting in basketball at IA has to have at least the same disadvantages as football. I love FM and hope he gets us the the next level!
That being said, if you want to compete for 'championships', it's all about RECRUITING. Gotta have the players. ALthough FM is an aggressive recruiter, he's always the 'bridesmaid' on the big ones. If he can pull one or two occasionally, I think we can take the next step.
Recruiting in basketball at IA has to have at least the same disadvantages as football. I love FM and hope he gets us the the next level!
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
How about you stop at 68 like the actual tournament and everyone else does? Who's to say that in the previous 26 years, the committee wouldn't have taken Iowa and seeded them in THE tournament and left a mid major out, kind of like they used to? As you can see, I am not triggered, I am just responding to your take that I think it's weak. I'm not being dramatic but rather quite reasonable.
When all else fails - google it.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+many+teams+make+the+ncaa+tournament?
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
on the OP - I think Alford and Fran are neck and neck, with Fran being a tad bit better IMO. He did take us to 3 straight NCAA's, something Alford didn't accomplish and Alford started the slide of Iowa basketball. He took over a program fresh off a Sweet 16 that he played a large hand in tanking. Fran took over one of the worst p5 programs in the country. I still give Fran this season, because Iowa is 6-2, ranked and it's 2 loses are to top 25 teams. If this season goes bad, it's time to get "mad" again.
Fryowa
Administrator
Comparing a 68 team field to a 64 team one isn’t apples to apples. Just like making a tournament now isn’t comparable (in difficulty) to when it was 48.
Just like making a bowl game in 2018 means zip compared to making one in 1980.
Put an asterisk on it maybe??
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I ask, why stop there? It wasn't as easy to make it back in the 40's when it was 8 teams.
I'm just saying, when it was 64, less mid majors made it. Iowa was 20-13 that season with a .500 conference record, that was good enough to dance when it was 64. The # back then was 20, remember? The play in game counts, it always has and always will. When you look up the 13/14 season for Iowa ANYWHERE, it list their results from the NCAA tournament, so I think we just gotta go with how literally every place lists it.
Alford took over for Tom Davis. In Mr. Davis's last 3 years, Iowa was 62-31 overall, 30-20 in the Big Ten, and finished 2nd, 5th, and 3rd in the Big Ten. His last 3 years Iowa went to the 2nd round of the NCAA, 1st round of the NIT, and Sweet 16 in the NCAA. Alford was supposed to take Iowa to the next level but the Iowa program was in good shape.
Fran took over for Lickliter. In Lickliter's 3 years as head coach of Iowa, he had a 38-57 overall record, 15-39 in the Big Ten, and finished 8th, 10th, and 9th in the Big Ten. Iowa didn't make it to the postseason during the Lickliter era. Fran was tasked with pulling Iowa out of the basement.
Accordingly, it was completely expected that Iowa would struggle mightily for at least Year 1 of Fran's tenure. Indeed, that is exactly what happened with Iowa finishing 11-20 overall, 4-14 in the Big Ten for a 10th place finish and no postseason. However, Fran quickly turned things around and has brought some respectability back to the Iowa program. Yes, there is still work to be done. Last year was no fun. But I expect last year to be a blip on the radar and for Iowa to continue its upward projection under Fran.
If you ignore Fran's first year, his total record is 135-90 overall (0.600) and 60-53 (0.531) in the Big Ten. The Iowa program has improved with Fran as head coach. The same could not be said about Alford's time at Iowa.
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83Hawk
Banned
And before that only 48 teams made it. Before that, even less. Your point is moot. There are 68 teams in the NCAA tournament now. Deal with it. Go yell at a cloud if *you* don’t like it.
And no, I don’t think the football team has 4 national championships. Just one, in 1958.
Fryowa
Administrator
1) Fran hasn’t “turned things around.” A “turn-around” is what Hayden Fry or Barry Alvarez did at their respective programs.
2) Fran has plateaued mightily and is now slipping.
Fryowa
Administrator
How ‘bout I yell at you if I don’t like it, Homer?
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Uh, getting to the final 8...in the NIT...is not "elite". Just sayin'
Fryowa
Administrator
His post said just what you were sayingBob. Just sayin.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
No, he distinctly said Alford made the Elite 8 of the NIT. No qualifier to it.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
I think I sorta made that point clear.
Fryowa
Administrator
You’re way behind.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
By God, I totally whiffed on The Price Is Right reference.! Which is REALLY sad, because my wife and daughter got to be in the audience a few years ago. Which might explain why I DVRed the show for two weeks, then never saw them on it. And watched them all. In full. And I STILL missed your cue!
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
1921 and 1922 according to some. And I believe somebody called Iowa "The fiercest, best durn team I ever sawed" back in 1900 or so. That might have just been a "West of the Mighty Mississippi" title, though.
