Former ISU bball star dead at 23

[trj]

I think hindsight is showing that Hoiberg was more lucky than good to keep some of these transfers he took in out of serious trouble when they were in Ames. He got a lot of credit for being able to "mentor" troubled guys, but the more time goes by the more it looks like he didn't do them a lot of good.

Royce White went on to completely destroy his once promising career. BDJ ended up getting himself killed.

In Bryce's case the Cyclone program had the opportunity to teach him a lesson. They had the opportunity to instill some responsibility in the kid. Instead BDJ repeatedly had run ins with the police and Hoiberg did everything he could to keep him out of trouble and on the court. It would have been better for Bryce had he learned his lesson the hard way. Instead his mentality that he can do what he wants and get away with it was further supported.

I think Hoiberg is having the same troubles in Chicago. He needs to carry a heavier stick. He's too damn relaxed and laid back. He has to demand respect from his players or they will take advantage of his "nice" personality. He doesn't have to be a jerk. He just has to have a fire that he light when necessary.

The Bulls do not know what they want Thibidueax was too demanding, too tough........Hoiberg is apparently too soft and not demanding enough. It is a delicate balancing act in that league( sports in general)and if he can't figure out where that line is and quickly; he is going to be looking for a new gig.

 

[BryceC]

In Bryce's case the Cyclone program had the opportunity to teach him a lesson. They had the opportunity to instill some responsibility in the kid. Instead BDJ repeatedly had run ins with the police and Hoiberg did everything he could to keep him out of trouble and on the court. It would have been better for Bryce had he learned his lesson the hard way. Instead his mentality that he can do what he wants and get away with it was further supported.

What should Hoiberg have done? I mean he did bench him. His minutes were reduced throughout the season.

He was a 22 year old who had already been in school for four years. Hoiberg's policy was always that he allowed the players to police themselves. That was honestly probably a mistake here but it has worked out well overall.

Regardless I'm not sure if there was anything Fred could have possibly done in the 6 or 7 months he had with the kid to drastically change is view on life. It's a tragic waste of talent but ultimately that falls on a 22 year old who chronically makes bad choices.

 

[DP5555]

What should Hoiberg have done? I mean he did bench him. His minutes were reduced throughout the season.

He was a 22 year old who had already been in school for four years. Hoiberg's policy was always that he allowed the players to police themselves. That was honestly probably a mistake here but it has worked out well overall.

Regardless I'm not sure if there was anything Fred could have possibly done in the 6 or 7 months he had with the kid to drastically change is view on life. It's a tragic waste of talent but ultimately that falls on a 22 year old who chronically makes bad choices.

I'm not sure there's anything he could have done that would have worked, and I won't pretend to know what he may have tried behind the scenes that no one knows about. He may well have done everything he could for BDJ.

I think it's simply the fact that it was reported that BDJ had been warned and warned and warned about repeated issues with his neighbors and Hoiberg went out his way to protect him by meeting with the police and even the neighbor kid. Instead of saying something like... "Bryce cut the shit. Enough is enough. One more of these complaints and your ass is out of here. I don't run a daycare. This is D1 basketball. If you want to be here it's pretty simple. Stay out of trouble for the next few months."

That's the only point I'm trying to make. Maybe getting booted off the team wouldn't have taught him anything. There's a good chance it wouldn't have, but I know for sure that coddling him didn't do anything other than teach him he can get away with much more than most people simply because of who he is and who he knows (Fred).

 

[SheagleHawk]

Bummer. CyFan pulled the thread. They must have realized how incredibly stupid it was making them look.

Btw... Randy Peterson's rag article is almost worse than the CyFan thread.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...es-shot-while-visiting-his-daughter/85126794/

He went for a "walk" at 3 am!? Sounds perfectly normal.

Did you see the piece Chrissy wrote recently praising Paw for running a clean program after Briles got canned? The same Paw who started a 2 time felon who had to live in a halfway house for 6 months, started another kid who held up clown students On campus, started another who went after his gf with a pair of scissors.

 

[Knight78]

Why would an almost 50 year old Marble who died of cancer be a thug? Stop trying to spin this, closet Cyclone.

BDJ kicked in two doors at an apartment in the middle of the night while intoxicated. FACT. His baby mama and ex lived in the same complex. FACT. It's reasonable to assume that BDJ did not have good intentions, and his actions very much led to his own demise. It's not insensitive to use common sense and facts to draw conclusions. It's not racist to call someone a thug who was breaking and entering in the middle of the night and had a history of past arrests and behavioral issues.

Stop bringing up Sash. Stop bringing up Marble. And kindly GTFO.

Add to your facts that Texas has a stand your ground law. If what was reported is true, the shooter had every right to do so under those circumstances.

That being said, it's still a tragic event.

 

[trj]

I'm not sure there's anything he could have done that would have worked, and I won't pretend to know what he may have tried behind the scenes that no one knows about. He may well have done everything he could for BDJ.

I think it's simply the fact that it was reported that BDJ had been warned and warned and warned about repeated issues with his neighbors and Hoiberg went out his way to protect him by meeting with the police and even the neighbor kid. Instead of saying something like... "Bryce cut the shit. Enough is enough. One more of these complaints and your ass is out of here. I don't run a daycare. This is D1 basketball. If you want to be here it's pretty simple. Stay out of trouble for the next few months."

That's the only point I'm trying to make. Maybe getting booted off the team wouldn't have taught him anything. There's a good chance it wouldn't have, but I know for sure that coddling him didn't do anything other than teach him he can get away with much more than most people simply because of who he is and who he knows (Fred).

In Hoiberg's defense he probably did everything you described. The "tough love" act only works when you have every intention on following through with what you said.

 

[WindsorHawk]

If what was reported is true, the shooter had every right to do so under those circumstances.

That being said, it's still a tragic event.

This.

 

[DP5555]

In Hoiberg's defense he probably did everything you described. The "tough love" act only works when you have every intention on following through with what you said.

Right. I'm not saying he didn't try to employ the tough love approach verbally, but clearly his actions didn't back it up. If you're trying to give someone tough love you don't go out of your way to meet with the police and victims of one of your players shenanigans in order to help keep them out of trouble. He should have said this is ridiculous and it needs to stop. If it doesn't stop the police have every right in the world to arrest your dumbass. By meeting with them he was coddling him. A 22 year old grown man repeatedly making stupid decisions doesn't need to be coddled. He needs to learn his damn lesson.

 

[DP5555]

Did you see the piece Chrissy wrote recently praising Paw for running a clean program after Briles got canned? The same Paw who started a 2 time felon who had to live in a halfway house for 6 months, started another kid who held up clown students On campus, started another who went after his gf with a pair of scissors.

Yes, I saw it and I laughed my way through it. CW is the biggest joke in the Iowa sports media. He's a clown. I don't mean that like Clone/Clown either. He's an actual clown. He has no clue what he's talking about. He bumbles his way through everything that he does and very rarely says or predicts anything that is even remotely accurate. What's even funnier about it is that most Cyclone fans hold his opinion like it's gospel. "Chris said this! Chris said that! We're turning it around! We're gonna take over the state!". Lol ya okay guys. I've been wondering how long it would take for Cyclone fans to realize Chris is a moron, but at this point I don't think it's ever going to happen. He's been calling his shot for years and years now and they still haven't figured out that he's always wrong.

Just look at this DB.

 

[Hawk5656]

I think hindsight is showing that Hoiberg was more lucky than good to keep some of these transfers he took in out of serious trouble when they were in Ames. He got a lot of credit for being able to "mentor" troubled guys, but the more time goes by the more it looks like he didn't do them a lot of good.

Royce White went on to completely destroy his once promising career. BDJ ended up getting himself killed.

In Bryce's case the Cyclone program had the opportunity to teach him a lesson. They had the opportunity to instill some responsibility in the kid. Instead BDJ repeatedly had run ins with the police and Hoiberg did everything he could to keep him out of trouble and on the court. It would have been better for Bryce had he learned his lesson the hard way. Instead his mentality that he can do what he wants and get away with it was further supported.

I think Hoiberg is having the same troubles in Chicago. He needs to carry a heavier stick. He's too damn relaxed and laid back. He has to demand respect from his players or they will take advantage of his "nice" personality. He doesn't have to be a jerk. He just has to have a fire that he light when necessary.

I despise ISU just as much as you, I was pretty indifferent to Hoiberg at first but started disliking him more every year at ISU (plus I can't say I'm not enjoying watching him fail in Chicago). With that being said, implying like Hoiberg could have prevented BDJ's death or anything along those lines is stupid. BDJ could have played for a more demanding coach and still had the same outcome. A young man's death isn't the time or place to take jabs at a rival school in my opinion

 

[nationalchamps]

Wow, the only thing missing from this thread is a good 'ol fashion gun control/2nd amendment debate.

Wait until we find out the shooter was white. THEN we'll have a story...

 

[hawkdrummer1]

What should Hoiberg have done? I mean he did bench him. His minutes were reduced throughout the season.

He was a 22 year old who had already been in school for four years. Hoiberg's policy was always that he allowed the players to police themselves. That was honestly probably a mistake here but it has worked out well overall.

Regardless I'm not sure if there was anything Fred could have possibly done in the 6 or 7 months he had with the kid to drastically change is view on life. It's a tragic waste of talent but ultimately that falls on a 22 year old who chronically makes bad choices.

I don't think the point was that Freddie could have saved him, as much as the general indictment of the type of players he recruited to ISU and the way he went about "building" his program.

 

[DP5555]

I despise ISU just as much as you, I was pretty indifferent to Hoiberg at first but started disliking him more every year at ISU (plus I can't say I'm not enjoying watching him fail in Chicago). With that being said, implying like Hoiberg could have prevented BDJ's death or anything along those lines is stupid. BDJ could have played for a more demanding coach and still had the same outcome. A young man's death isn't the time or place to take jabs at a rival school in my opinion

I said multiple times that there's a good chance nothing would have changed this outcome. Again, your reading comprehension skills seem to be failing you. Either that or your trying to see something that just isn't there. I even said it's entirely possible Hoiberg made efforts behind the scenes that no one knows about to try and get BDJ to grow up.

My only point was that on the surface it doesn't look like Hoiberg's approach helped BDJ at all. It looks as if it only made it worse. You don't reward a guy for being an idiot. Getting him out of trouble that he earned the right to be disciplined for is a form of a reward. I have a 14 week old son. When he does something stupid, which I'm sure will happen sooner or later, you can be damn sure he's going to face the music. That's how you learn and become an adult. Now I have a military background, and discipline and respect is of the utmost importance to me so maybe my outlook is a little bit more jaded than yours.

 

[imported_ankle23]

I don't think that point was that Freddie could have saved him, as much as the general indictment of the type of players he recruited to ISU and the way he went about "building" his program.

drummer doing my work again........i said many times, the type of 'building' he was doing was a fail. short term gratification, for long term 'issues'......hoidberg taking care of himself so he could move on faster is what his intent was, from go.

 

[HawkGold]

drummer doing my work again........i said many times, the type of 'building' he was doing was a fail. short term gratification, for long term 'issues'......hoidberg taking care of himself so he could move on faster is what his intent was, from go.

At the risk of becoming called Cy Troll, which I am for sure not... How is Fran any different, offering a convicted felon? All these programs are under extreme pressure to win.

The Hawks hired a guy with anger management issues who easily could have spun out of control. I saw Iowa coaches recruiting a kid many of you never knew about. The kid went to another school and got arrested for pot and now transferring.

There has probably only been 1 Iowa coach who won and really did it right in modern (post 1960) times.

The attitude that every other program is stupid and dirty and we are not gets old.

Very few coaches today are interested in doing it "the right way". There isn't time to do that.To get a coaching deal you have to have done just what Fran did. Otherwise, why not hire an "Iowa" guy like BJ or Bobby...

All these coaches are looking for a fast fix.

 

[Hawk5656]

At the risk of becoming called Cy Troll, which I am for sure not... How is Fran any different, offering a convicted felon? All these programs are under extreme pressure to win.

The Hawks hired a guy with anger management issues who easily could have spun out of control. I saw Iowa coaches recruiting a kid many of you never knew about. The kid went to another school and got arrested for pot and now transferring.

There has probably only been 1 Iowa coach who won and really did it right in modern (post 1960) times.

The attitude that every other program is stupid and dirty and we are not gets old.

Very few coaches today are interested in doing it "the right way". There isn't time to do that.To get a coaching deal you have to have done just what Fran did. Otherwise, why not hire an "Iowa" guy like BJ or Bobby...

All these coaches are looking for a fast fix.

With how much pressure is putting on winning and winning right now coaches have to do whatever they can to get talent or they're going to get fired

 

[DP5555]

With how much pressure is putting on winning and winning right now coaches have to do whatever they can to get talent or they're going to get fired

I don't think this is true at all. I think a lot of coaches feel that way, and in some cases it may be true. However, Kirk Ferentz is going to do things his way. He's proven he isn't afraid to walk away from a talented recruit because of off the field drama. Seantrel Henderson is the first name that rings a bell.

 

[imported_ankle23]

At the risk of becoming called Cy Troll, which I am for sure not... How is Fran any different, offering a convicted felon? All these programs are under extreme pressure to win.

The Hawks hired a guy with anger management issues who easily could have spun out of control. I saw Iowa coaches recruiting a kid many of you never knew about. The kid went to another school and got arrested for pot and now transferring.

There has probably only been 1 Iowa coach who won and really did it right in modern (post 1960) times.

The attitude that every other program is stupid and dirty and we are not gets old.

Very few coaches today are interested in doing it "the right way". There isn't time to do that.To get a coaching deal you have to have done just what Fran did. Otherwise, why not hire an "Iowa" guy like BJ or Bobby...

All these coaches are looking for a fast fix.

all coaches looking for a fast fix?

so how many kids has the 'anger management' coach brought in that was a one time/two time reject at another school?

 

[AdamHawk]

all coaches looking for a fast fix?

so how many kids has the 'anger management' coach brought in that was a one time/two time reject at another school?

And then managed to get in trouble once on campus and either got a slap on the wrist or a no punishment at all. As tragic as the BDJ situation is, he is a product of the system. As a standout athlete, you are given preferential treatment which often leads to having little to no regard for rules/laws/etc. I think more than anything, BDJ needed to learn a hard lesson at some point in his career to possibly scare him straight. Instead he was given 2nd, 3rd and even 4th chances to wake up and unfortunately he never could get it together.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

At the risk of becoming called Cy Troll, which I am for sure not... How is Fran any different, offering a convicted felon? All these programs are under extreme pressure to win.

The Hawks hired a guy with anger management issues who easily could have spun out of control. I saw Iowa coaches recruiting a kid many of you never knew about. The kid went to another school and got arrested for pot and now transferring.

There has probably only been 1 Iowa coach who won and really did it right in modern (post 1960) times.

The attitude that every other program is stupid and dirty and we are not gets old.

Very few coaches today are interested in doing it "the right way". There isn't time to do that.To get a coaching deal you have to have done just what Fran did. Otherwise, why not hire an "Iowa" guy like BJ or Bobby...

All these coaches are looking for a fast fix.

Are you familiar with the concept of frequency? Once...or once in a great while...is quite different than a consistent pattern.

Giving one kid a shot to get back on track cause he might help your program, like Fran did with recruit you referenced is one thing. Building your program around misfits, one year transfers and guys of questionable character is quite another.

But as the saying goes...if I have to explain it.