For those that think college basketball is not a good product

[hawkdrummer1]

"TV fans" do indeed vote with $$ and it can be gauged in the form of advertising revenue. When the advertising revenue generated by the TV contracts 30 professional basketball teams exceeds that of 344 division 1 basketball teams it's a pretty strong argument.

The bottom line is the NBA is a far more popular sport in the United States (not to mention world wide) than is college basketball and I'm not sure it's even close or arguable.

I think my point go lost in the mix. The NBA is obviously bigger than college bball financially. I said I didn't like the "game" in the NBA. And that it wasn't the second most popular sport overall.

We need a pitcher of beer and some nachos. We could ramble over this for hours!

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

NBA arenas are roughly 25-30% the size of NFL stadiums. So under a strict supply/demand theory NBA nosebleeds should be a LOT more expensive than the NFL nosebleeds. They are not. As a matter of fact, in many cities the nosebleed NFL seat is a tougher ticket.

Again, you make some good points...but there are a few holes in your assumptions.

Under strict supply and demand theory, you would know that an NBA team plays 41 home games without playoffs, while a NFL team plays 8. That means that the supply of NBA is 5x greater than NFL, which will reflect in ticket prices.

 

[HawkI101]

Under strict supply and demand theory, you would know that an NBA team plays 41 home games without playoffs, while a NFL team plays 8. That means that the supply of NBA is 5x greater than NFL, which will reflect in ticket prices.

Like I said, numbers and stats can be bent to mean anything.

 

[DuffMan]

I think my point go lost in the mix. The NBA is obviously bigger than college bball financially. I said I didn't like the "game" in the NBA. And that it wasn't the second most popular sport overall.

We need a pitcher of beer and some nachos. We could ramble over this for hours!

Don't pretend this is a civil conversation. If I had a pitcher of beer and some nachos I'd chug the pitcher and slam it across your melon.

There is nothing wrong with preferring the college game, but then again there is nothing wrong with enjoying getting hit in the head with an empty beer pitcher either. Both however put you in the distinct minority looking at nationwide numbers.

I also think the NBA has suprassed baseball as the most popular sport in the US. There can be no argument that it's a lot healthier than baseball financially.

 

[hawkfan340]

Planned Special Events - Economic Role and Congestion Effects: Chapter 7 - National Estimates - FHWA Office of Operations -

Here is an older link that shows the NBA ranking third in revenue (which is really the only way to judge popularity) behind baseball (which I'm sure it's since passed) and college basketball is ranked 6th.

It's actually not even really close, in 2007 the NBA generated about 3.5 billion. College basketballs number back in 2002 was around 400 million. It's reasonable to assume it had increased some between 2002 and 2007 but nowhere near enough.

These numbers count all possible revenues streams for the pro sports but seem to only count ticket revenue for the college sports.

Example from D1 college football:
$1.8B / (952 games * 38,909 ppl/game) = $48.60 per person who buys a ticket.

I'm pretty sure the average D1 college football fan contributes more that $50 if you sum a ticket, concessions, TV revenue, radio, apparel, etc.

I honestly would be interested to see an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[hawkfan340]

Don't pretend this is a civil conversation. If I had a pitcher of beer and some nachos I'd chug the pitcher and slam it across your melon.

There is nothing wrong with preferring the college game, but then again there is nothing wrong with enjoying getting hit in the head with an empty beer pitcher either. Both however put you in the distinct minority looking at nationwide numbers.

I also think the NBA has suprassed baseball as the most popular sport in the US. There can be no argument that it's a lot healthier than baseball financially.

Wow, that's a lot of fail right there.

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

Wow, that's a lot of fail right there.

That's true. Most NBA franchises are not profitable, even with high attendance and merchandise. The Cavs sold out every seat last year, and they lost a ton of money. No doubt the NBA operates under a broken business model, but that doesn't mean it isn't popular. Youtube operates under a broken business model and bleeds money, but it is one of the worlds most popular websites.

Back to the core debate here though, the NBA has more viewers, more revenue, more merchandise sales, immense popularity on every continent, and several profitable and marketable teams and players. The NCAA cannot compete with them in any way, and is much less popular. That doesn't mean NCAA basketball is a bad sport (although I think it is), nor does it mean the NBA is a better game (although I think it is), it is just the facts.

 

[HawkI101]

That's true. Most NBA franchises are not profitable, even with high attendance and merchandise. The Cavs sold out every seat last year, and they lost a ton of money. No doubt the NBA operates under a broken business model, but that doesn't mean it isn't popular. Youtube operates under a broken business model and bleeds money, but it is one of the worlds most popular websites.

Back to the core debate here though, the NBA has more viewers, more revenue, more merchandise sales, immense popularity on every continent, and several profitable and marketable teams and players. The NCAA cannot compete with them in any way, and is much less popular. That doesn't mean NCAA basketball is a bad sport (although I think it is), nor does it mean the NBA is a better game (although I think it is), it is just the facts.

Until you go around an poll everyone on the U.S. and ask them which they prefer you will never know. You say MORE people like the NBA because of ratings and merchandise. That is a snapshot. If you TOTALED all the people in the country that prefer college to NBA, I have no doubt the total numbers for college number would be greater.

I also have no doubt that an NBA bball game will have higher ratings because there are more people living in those areas. Again totals would tell the story.

 

[hawkfan340]

That's true. Most NBA franchises are not profitable, even with high attendance and merchandise. The Cavs sold out every seat last year, and they lost a ton of money. No doubt the NBA operates under a broken business model, but that doesn't mean it isn't popular. Youtube operates under a broken business model and bleeds money, but it is one of the worlds most popular websites.

Back to the core debate here though, the NBA has more viewers, more revenue, more merchandise sales, immense popularity on every continent, and several profitable and marketable teams and players. The NCAA cannot compete with them in any way, and is much less popular. That doesn't mean NCAA basketball is a bad sport (although I think it is), nor does it mean the NBA is a better game (although I think it is), it is just the facts.

I'll give you that the NBA is likely more popular than college basketball. I just can't believe that it's the second most popular sport. It is likely running a distant fourth behing NFL, MLB, and NCAA FB.

As far as what's the better game between college and pro BB, it's subjective so I guess everyone can just keep arguing forever.

 

[hawkfan340]

Until you go around an poll everyone on the U.S. and ask them which they prefer you will never know. You say MORE people like the NBA because of ratings and merchandise. That is a snapshot. If you TOTALED all the people in the country that prefer college to NBA, I have no doubt the total numbers for college number would be greater.

I also have no doubt that an NBA bball game will have higher ratings because there are more people living in those areas. Again totals would tell the story.

But the Harris poll (which is, you know, a scientific polling company) showed NBA edging out NCAA BB, so there is that.

However, it also showed NBA behind NHL and NASCAR. I prefer NHL to NBA, but I honestly have a hard time believing that the country as a whole agrees. So I guess who knows.

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

Until you go around an poll everyone on the U.S. and ask them which they prefer you will never know. You say MORE people like the NBA because of ratings and merchandise. That is a snapshot. If you TOTALED all the people in the country that prefer college to NBA, I have no doubt the total numbers for college number would be greater.

I also have no doubt that an NBA bball game will have higher ratings because there are more people living in those areas. Again totals would tell the story.

Wait, why do you question my assertion as an assumption, and then top it with an assumption of your own. Your entire argument rests on a set of numbers that don't exist. It is all based on what you feel the answer would be with no data to support it. At least I presented a "snapshot" as data to back up my point. All you have to back you up is "a good feeling".

Get some facts to back up your assertion, or shut up.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

The last few minutes of a close basketball game are great.

I guess it depends on the coach's philosophy on using timeouts, but here's my impression of the last few minutes of a typical close basketball game:

Timeout
Timeout
Timeout
Timeout
Timeout
Timeout

Or if it's more than a 1-possession game:

Foul
FT's
Shoot the 3
Timeout
Foul
FT's
Shoot the 3
Timeout

I actually find that whole routine painful to watch. Except for the occaisional exceptions where the two teams just play and slug it out without the constant stoppages in play the final 60-90 seconds of the game. Then I would agree with you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a long time college hoops fan as well, but the last couple minutes of a game often draws out far too long.

 

[hawkincal]

College basketball is a much worse product than it was 20 years ago. Too many one and done players to have continuity of great talent in the college game.

I contend that Duke's 1991 and 1992 teams would trounce their national championship team of 2010.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Don't pretend this is a civil conversation. If I had a pitcher of beer and some nachos I'd chug the pitcher and slam it across your melon.

There is nothing wrong with preferring the college game, but then again there is nothing wrong with enjoying getting hit in the head with an empty beer pitcher either. Both however put you in the distinct minority looking at nationwide numbers.

I also think the NBA has suprassed baseball as the most popular sport in the US. There can be no argument that it's a lot healthier than baseball financially.

I'm not "pretending" anything. But if you wanna be a jerk, that's certainly your prerogative.

 

[EddyP]

College basketball is a much worse product than it was 20 years ago. Too many one and done players to have continuity of great talent in the college game.

I contend that Duke's 1991 and 1992 teams would trounce their national championship team of 2010.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about the NBA. I contend Magic, Larry, and Jordan's teams would trounce the teams of today.

 

[HawkI101]

Wait, why do you question my assertion as an assumption, and then top it with an assumption of your own. Your entire argument rests on a set of numbers that don't exist. It is all based on what you feel the answer would be with no data to support it. At least I presented a "snapshot" as data to back up my point. All you have to back you up is "a good feeling".

Get some facts to back up your assertion, or shut up.

I love how you always come on the board get mad at other posters. You need a friend. All I am saying is I am not trying to use a set of numbers to make my argument in this case because in this case there are too many variables for your numbers to mean anything. It is still opinion. Until there is a way for you to actually prove your point my "good feeling" won't change. I change my mind all the time when presented with GOOD facts, yours are not, IMO

And the Harris Poll is scientific as all polls and theories are. Doesn't mean they are always right.

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

I love how you always come on the board get mad at other posters. You need a friend. All I am saying is I am not trying to use a set of numbers to make my argument in this case because in this case there are too many variables for your numbers to mean anything. It is still opinion. Until there is a way for you to actually prove your point my "good feeling" won't change. I change my mind all the time when presented with GOOD facts, yours are not, IMO

And the Harris Poll is scientific as all polls and theories are. Doesn't mean they are always right.

I love how you always come on the board and make blanket statements without proof. You need a friend (to hit you over the head with a billiards ball in a sock).

The reason you do not have a set of numbers to make your case is because those numbers don't exist! You have presented as much evidence to support your theory that NCAA basketball is more popular than the NBA as someone proposing a theory that cavemen used brontosauruses as cranes.

Maybe there are a bunch of variables, but that doesn't discount all evidence. There are plenty of variable in quantum mechanics that mankind will never solve, but that doesn't keep us from using the data we gather to draw conclusions. Your computer is evidence of that.

So again, at least I have some data to prove my hypothesis. You have nothing. I win. How does it feel to lose, loser!

 

[storminspank]

No, seriously, the NBA is almost unwatchable.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

No, seriously, the NBA is almost unwatchable.

Thou shalt not speak the unspeakable. Drink the marketing koolaid Spank...drink the koolaid.

 

[JHHawk]

No, seriously, the NBA is almost unwatchable.

Only if you like watching spectacular athletes playing the sport at its highest level,I guess.

If I was a fan of the Wolves,I probably would agree,but watching Derrick Rose on a nitely basis is almost a religious experience for a pure bb fan.

It is like catching Jordan in his first five years in the league when he just flew over everyone with his athleticism.

Watching DRose with the naked eye closeup at a Bulls game is like seeing an optical illusion repeated time after time...you almost cannot believe how quick he is compared to even other stellar athletes....it is fun.