? For Those Of You Who Lost Taste And/Or Smell...

[Fryowa]

Interesting. Thanks for taking the time in that large post. I couldn't stop reading. So, if I wanted to get Roundup to spray around my residential yard, I couldn't now or won't be e able to soon? I'd be fine with that.

Or there will be a close cousin.

You will be able to get it just the same as before. Roundup = glyphosate. There are tons of other brand names selling the same thing. Go look at the shelves in Bomgaars or Runnings or Fleet or Menards/HD/Lowe’s.

Roundup is strictly a brand name and there are literally hundreds of glyphosate products out there for residential use. They are actually happy that Roundup is slowly going away because it’ll help their business. To be honest, the name brand Roundup actually sucks and is ridiculously expensive because the concentration is lower than the off brand.

Bayer getting rid of Roundup will do absolutely nothing to stop or slow glyphosate from being used.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Monsanto was facing billions of dollars in lawsuits in Europe and the US so they sold the rights to the Roundup trade name to Bayer. Bayer is stopping the home use of Roundup this year and say they are changing it both in this market and ag, but aren't saying what they are putting in it basically yet. The EPA fights for glyphosate quite hard in contrast to the European version.

Bayer did not just buy the Roundup name, it bought the entirety of Monsanto. Monsanto has a metric shit ton of patents of specific genes in crops that allow the crop to get blasted with Roundup with no harm to the crop and that is the real value of the company, not the name Roundup. The deal damned near sunk Bayer because the lottery verdicts didn't start coming down until after Bayer closed on the deal. It was one of the worst M&A deals ever. I don't know the underlying science on Roundup, but I wouldn't be surprised if in a decade glyphosate is as dirty of a word as "asbestos."

 

[HawkGold]

You will be able to get it just the same as before. Roundup = glyphosate. There are tons of other brand names selling the same thing. Go look at the shelves in Bomgaars or Runnings or Fleet or Menards/HD/Lowe’s.

Roundup is strictly a brand name and there are literally hundreds of glyphosate products out there for residential use. They are actually happy that Roundup is slowly going away because it’ll help their business. To be honest, the name brand Roundup actually sucks and is ridiculously expensive because the concentration is lower than the off brand.

Bayer getting rid of Roundup will do absolutely nothing to stop or slow glyphosate from being used.

Yes unless it is more heavily regulated. I used Roundup and glyphosate interchangebly for a reason. Will be interesting to see what Bayer does in changes. Likely the base chemical equation will be very similar but different.

Homeowners can do the same with higher percenge vinegar, salt, and dish soap.

 

[HawkGold]

Bayer did not just buy the Roundup name, it bought the entirety of Monsanto. Monsanto has a metric shit ton of patents of specific genes in crops that allow the crop to get blasted with Roundup with no harm to the crop and that is the real value of the company, not the name Roundup. The deal damned near sunk Bayer because the lottery verdicts didn't start coming down until after Bayer closed on the deal. It was one of the worst M&A deals ever. I don't know the underlying science on Roundup, but I wouldn't be surprised if in a decade glyphosate is as dirty of a word as "asbestos."

I was simplifying it. Also alluding that it is a generic product. Roundup/glyphosate business is huge. Years ago Bayer was about my favorite ag Chem Co on professionalism. Things change.

These companies are good at marketing. Really good. They got elderly landowners to standup and scream how banning glyphosate would destroy our food system. 90 percent of US food does not come from commercial farms like in Iowa we have in Iowa. The idea of thr Ukraine war causing mass starvation is crazy.

A BASF rep I knew would actually ingest Basagran to show how safe it was. He was an idiot.

You rarely if at all would see sales reps retire from Monsanto as they would leave or get fired.

Ag Chem and seed is a part of the pharma system. Think about that. Marketing geniuses. Most of thevfarms I manage do use glyphosate or a cousin to some degree though I do manage quite a few non GMO and some organic. Those are more work.

 

[Fryowa]

Yes unless it is more heavily regulated.

Won’t happen in our lifetimes and likely not in our kids’ lifetimes.

 

[okeefe4prez]

You rarely if at all would see sales reps retire from Monsanto as they would leave or get fired.

Damn. I can't fathom the pressure Monsanto put on their sales guys to push product. They probably require 8 or 10 percent sales growth per year. Sounds like a shitty job.

 

[HawkGold]

Won’t happen in our lifetimes and likely not in our kids’ lifetimes.

The pressure from environmental concerns will only get stronger. Environmental concerns are going more mainstream and not just radical left.

Montrose Chemical Co in Torrance, CA (south LA) dumped DDT directly off the coast of Palos Verdes. The Abalone in Abalone Cove began dying off. . That area is one of the most beautiful areas in the US. Hasn't cleanup didn't begin for a long time as lawsuits were settled. Can't think of how many times I swam in the ocean at Redondo Beach and climbed the rocks at Abalone Cove.

I do think the COVID Vax has wakened a sleeping segment of the population on mainstream and will grow in size. Studies are really just beginning on measuring glyphosate in human bodies.

You may be right. Maybe not.

 

[okeefe4prez]

The pressure from environmental concerns will only get stronger. Environmental concerns are going more mainstream and not just radical left.

Montrose Chemical Co in Torrance, CA (south LA) dumped DDT directly off the coast of Palos Verdes. The Abalone in Abalone Cove began dying off. . That area is one of the most beautiful areas in the US. Hasn't cleanup didn't begin for a long time as lawsuits were settled. Can't think of how many times I swam in the ocean at Redondo Beach and climbed the rocks at Abalone Cove.

I do think the COVID Vax has wakened a sleeping segment of the population on mainstream and will grow in size. Studies are really just beginning on measuring glyphosate in human bodies.

You may be right. Maybe not.

I think there are legitimate yield and efficiency concerns that come out of banning something like glyphosate. There ain't an easy solution. Perhaps getting rid of the blend mandate will be the first step to doing away with glyphosate. The blend mandate eats up a shit ton of corn.

 

[Fryowa]

The pressure from environmental concerns will only get stronger. Environmental concerns are going more mainstream and not just radical left.

Montrose Chemical Co in Torrance, CA (south LA) dumped DDT directly off the coast of Palos Verdes. The Abalone in Abalone Cove began dying off. . That area is one of the most beautiful areas in the US. Hasn't cleanup didn't begin for a long time as lawsuits were settled. Can't think of how many times I swam in the ocean at Redondo Beach and climbed the rocks at Abalone Cove.

I do think the COVID Vax has wakened a sleeping segment of the population on mainstream and will grow in size. Studies are really just beginning on measuring glyphosate in human bodies.

You may be right. Maybe not.

Banning glyphosate would have such an immediate impact on crop yields that it’d create a national food and fuel emergency followed by a crash in commodity markets. And that’s not an exaggeration. There’s nothing even close to as effective (or commonly-used) as glyphosate at what it does. We are a house of cards in that respect.

There is zero chance that it gets restricted in the United States until there is an equivalent replacement. None. Zip. Unfortunately glyphosate is one of those handful of necessary evils that we can’t get rid of yet.

 

[Fryowa]

I think there are legitimate yield and efficiency concerns that come out of banning something like glyphosate. There ain't an easy solution. Perhaps getting rid of the blend mandate will be the first step to doing away with glyphosate. The blend mandate eats up a shit ton of corn.

This. Glyphosate ain’t goin nowhere. With expected yields/acre where they’re at now and the requirement by our economy that meet those yields every year, we’re married to it.

The nerds have made crops completely drought and wind/hail resistant, and more than tripled yields in the past 40 years. The days of walking beans and letting weeds go in corn fields are over. And the government ain’t gonna let things go south because of a little cancer. People forget that the US isn’t California.

 

[HawkGold]

Banning glyphosate would have such an immediate impact on crop yields that it’d create a national food and fuel emergency followed by a crash in commodity markets. And that’s not an exaggeration. There’s nothing even close to as effective (or commonly-used) as glyphosate at what it does. We are a house of cards in that respect.

There is zero chance that it gets restricted in the United States until there is an equivalent replacement. None. Zip. Unfortunately glyphosate is one of those handful of necessary evils that we can’t get rid of yet.

No it wouldn't. That is a commercial. Simple alternatives could replace it. Not saying would be easy. It's not getting banned immediately but over several years it could be phased out.

 

[okeefe4prez]

This. Glyphosate ain’t goin nowhere. With expected yields/acre where they’re at now and the requirement by our economy that meet those yields every year, we’re married to it.

The nerds have made crops completely drought and wind/hail resistant, and more than tripled yields in the past 40 years. The days of walking beans and letting weeds go in corn fields are over. And the government ain’t gonna let things go south because of a little cancer. People forget that the US isn’t California.

Not just our economy, but the amount of feed necessary as Asia further industrializes and increases demand for meat is going to be absolutely astronomical. Just China and India combined are over 6x the population of the United States. And that ain't even counting the other densely populated countries in Northeast and South Asia.

There just aren't many good options. You can hate glyphosate and oil with the fire of a thousand suns but it doesn't change the fact that without both of those things we'd be looking at a global famine real quick if they disappeared overnight. Not to sound like an old man here but there ain't enough good musicians alive anymore to make a show even half as awesome as Live Aid was back in '85. You dudes remember that?

 

[HawkGold]

I think there are legitimate yield and efficiency concerns that come out of banning something like glyphosate. There ain't an easy solution. Perhaps getting rid of the blend mandate will be the first step to doing away with glyphosate. The blend mandate eats up a shit ton of corn.

Some yield concerns yes. But overblown. I couldn't do it long term, but I've had organic farms yield right with commercial on corn and beans. But that is with NO chemical assistance. There are simple alternatives. The ethanol supply would reduce but that is only 10 percent. In a catastrophe, livestock herds would be reduced. Any ban would be over time anyway. Again, the industry (ag chem/pharma) wants you to believe you'd go hungrier and it wouldn't happen. 90 percent of food worldwide is produced on low input sustainable farms. Our grain has so many other uses.

 

[HawkGold]

This. Glyphosate ain’t goin nowhere. With expected yields/acre where they’re at now and the requirement by our economy that meet those yields every year, we’re married to it.

The nerds have made crops completely drought and wind/hail resistant, and more than tripled yields in the past 40 years. The days of walking beans and letting weeds go in corn fields are over. And the government ain’t gonna let things go south because of a little cancer. People forget that the US isn’t California.

What has helped is the insect/pest reduction. We can keep crops healthy longer and keep corn silks from getting clipped. Fungicides are another huge improvement, no weed control. Remains to be seen how long we can keep spraying fungicides and not develop severe resistance.

Farmers can't find weed walkers anymore as the immigrant crews are tied to seed production. A little Cancer? We don't know. The Govt isn't so much concerned about the "food" supply as it really isn't that much of a food supply in the midwest as it is political lobby. Clean weed free fields look nice, but really not needed. Waterhemp is a legit concern though and would require farmers to work harder.

 

[HawkGold]

Not just our economy, but the amount of feed necessary as Asia further industrializes and increases demand for meat is going to be absolutely astronomical. Just China and India combined are over 6x the population of the United States. And that ain't even counting the other densely populated countries in Northeast and South Asia.

There just aren't many good options. You can hate glyphosate and oil with the fire of a thousand suns but it doesn't change the fact that without both of those things we'd be looking at a global famine real quick if they disappeared overnight. Not to sound like an old man here but there ain't enough good musicians alive anymore to make a show even half as awesome as Live Aid was back in '85. You dudes remember that?

Corn and Bean production AIN"T about food except for livestock production which is very inefficient. We AIN'T starving folks without glyphosate. Almost all food around the world is produced without commercial ag directly.

 

[HawkGold]

Not going to food folks. Reduction in livestock use would more directly feed people in a catastrophe

 

[HawkGold]

 

[HawkGold]

and we can live without corn sweeteners in soda... which we can also live w/o.

 

[HawkGold]

DDGS is largely from ethanol production and is livestock fed primarily.

 

[Fryowa]

What has helped is the insect/pest reduction. We can keep crops healthy longer and keep corn silks from getting clipped. Fungicides are another huge improvement, no weed control. Remains to be seen how long we can keep spraying fungicides and not develop severe resistance.

Farmers can't find weed walkers anymore as the immigrant crews are tied to seed production. A little Cancer? We don't know. The Govt isn't so much concerned about the "food" supply as it really isn't that much of a food supply in the midwest as it is political lobby. Clean weed free fields look nice, but really not needed. Waterhemp is a legit concern though and would require farmers to work harder.

Lol. The problem isn’t starvation. It’s the economy and commodity price stability. Any large scale decrease in crop yields will start a cascade of economic disaster. I’m not going to spend time on a post detailing the order of operations. If you are as involved in agriculture as you claim to be, you should understand that.