That is what I heard as well. Sounds like he may have been talking with players a lot about what he thought should be going on.
Figure we may get a kick out of this
- Thread starter Hawkfnntn
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99topdawg
Well-Known Member
I may create an alt so I can like this twice.
One thing I do tell the parent is that a) their son should address any issue with me first and b) talking with me will most likely result in reduced playing time because I don't want others to think coming and complaining actually works.
Fryowa
Administrator
I agree with you wholeheartedly, but as a coach of a youth travel team and high school coach in Iowa, if you did that you’d have half your team hit the road.
That coaching style works at a place with a ton of culture/success built up and a youth program with big numbers of kids, but the vast majority of schools don’t have that. Baseball is especially hard-hit. Kids don’t want to “waste” their summers practicing in 95° heat and playing weekend tournaments when they could be at the lake or in the basement playing video games against their buddies online.
Tge AD at the school I coach at has a strict policy that everyone at the JV level and below gets playing time. That’s all fine and dandy, but I have a bunch of 8th graders who are way better than a bunch of my frosh/sophomores, and those 8th graders getting JV time right now would be the best thing possible for our program as far as experience and game situational reps.
But nope.
We tried that once when I was coaching here the first stint and had kids quit. I was fine with it because the kids who quit would never have seen the varsity field in their lives, but the school’s directive is that they want participation above everything else.
That’s also where our superintendent has blinders on. He’s not a sports guy, and he judges a program’s health in whether the participation is high. Welp, tell you what—I’d rather have ten guys go out who could play baseball and had solid fundamentals vs 30 kids who don’t know their heads from their asses.
Fryowa
Administrator
This x 1,000.
My kid is an 8th grader and they have a pretty solid core to their team. There’s 4-5 of them who come to varsity practices on their own (never invited or promised anything), and they jump in whenever there’s an opportunity like shagging BP or getting some cuts and ground balls when there’s time, usually at the end. I’m fine with it because I want guys who want to practice. They know it isn’t their practice and to stay the hell out of the way when we’re drilling, etc, and they help out doing the shit work like picking balls up and moving screens around. Win/win in my eyes…
So, because we have such crappy numbers, I let these guys play up freshman ball to fill in (AD won’t let them play JV). In our conference the only schools with enough numbers to play freshman games are the really good programs, naturally. Our 8th graders get roughed up sometimes, but they don’t care because they get to play and they keep coming back.
Anywhoo, I had a parent of one of the other 8th graders come up to me today at one of their games (which I was just spectating, not coaching), and asked me why I was “having your kid and his buddies” come to varsity practices and play freshman games. All pissed off. “Why don’t you ask the rest of them?”
He had nothing to say when I told him that 1) I’ve never invited any middle schooler to practice, and 2) they come on their own and mostly do the stuff no one else wants to do. This guy’s kid is absolutely terrible (which is fine, not everyone is a ball player), and if I knew it wouldn’t be a negative experience I’d like to stick him in a high school game and let him strike out four times looking. Just to show dad that it ain’t east street for these kids.
Parents are just terrible humans and when they start saying shit like, “your kid” I get super pissed. My kid didn’t ask for the shadow over his head as a coach’s son, don’t fuckin make it worse on him, asshole. You want your son to get more playing time? Tell him to work harder than the next guy.
Luckily I’m jaded enough that I sleep like a baby at night. If they don’t like it tell the AD and get me fired (ain’t gonna happen). I have a day job and I’ll gladly go back to doing private BP and practices and sit at games in a lawn chair
Ree4
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you and Fran have something in commonThis x 1,000.
My kid is an 8th grader and they have a pretty solid core to their team. There’s 4-5 of them who come to varsity practices on their own (never invited or promised anything), and they jump in whenever there’s an opportunity like shagging BP or getting some cuts and ground balls when there’s time, usually at the end. I’m fine with it because I want guys who want to practice. They know it isn’t their practice and to stay the hell out of the way when we’re drilling, etc, and they help out doing the shit work like picking balls up and moving screens around. Win/win in my eyes…
So, because we have such crappy numbers, I let these guys play up freshman ball to fill in (AD won’t let them play JV). In our conference the only schools with enough numbers to play freshman games are the really good programs, naturally. Our 8th graders get roughed up sometimes, but they don’t care because they get to play and they keep coming back.
Anywhoo, I had a parent of one of the other 8th graders come up to me today at one of their games (which I was just spectating, not coaching), and asked me why I was “having your kid and his buddies” come to varsity practices and play freshman games. All pissed off. “Why don’t you ask the rest of them?”
He had nothing to say when I told him that 1) I’ve never invited any middle schooler to practice, and 2) they come on their own and mostly do the stuff no one else wants to do. This guy’s kid is absolutely terrible (which is fine, not everyone is a ball player), and if I knew it wouldn’t be a negative experience I’d like to stick him in a high school game and let him strike out four times looking. Just to show dad that it ain’t east street for these kids.
Parents are just terrible humans and when they start saying shit like, “your kid” I get super pissed. My kid didn’t ask for the shadow over his head as a coach’s son, don’t fuckin make it worse on him, asshole. You want your son to get more playing time? Tell him to work harder than the next guy.
Luckily I’m jaded enough that I sleep like a baby at night. If they don’t like it tell the AD and get me fired (ain’t gonna happen). I have a day job and I’ll gladly go back to doing private BP and practices and sit at games in a lawn chair
Fryowa
Administrator
Haha, My tax payer funded check comes to a little over $6K per year, I’d say I have a whole lot of catching up to do in terms of anything we have in common.Sounds like you and Fran have something in common
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Too bad more teams couldn't be added and prioritize the players by skill level, but, that is a lift with budget concerns with more overhead and finding coaches as they need background checks. I'd think there would be enough parent coaches out there for the lower division teams, because there are always dad's who want to coach to make sure their son gets the upper hand and bats 1st or 2nd.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Was your 8th grade team playing USSSA state last weekend in Des Moines/Ankeny?This x 1,000.
My kid is an 8th grader and they have a pretty solid core to their team. There’s 4-5 of them who come to varsity practices on their own (never invited or promised anything), and they jump in whenever there’s an opportunity like shagging BP or getting some cuts and ground balls when there’s time, usually at the end. I’m fine with it because I want guys who want to practice. They know it isn’t their practice and to stay the hell out of the way when we’re drilling, etc, and they help out doing the shit work like picking balls up and moving screens around. Win/win in my eyes…
So, because we have such crappy numbers, I let these guys play up freshman ball to fill in (AD won’t let them play JV). In our conference the only schools with enough numbers to play freshman games are the really good programs, naturally. Our 8th graders get roughed up sometimes, but they don’t care because they get to play and they keep coming back.
Anywhoo, I had a parent of one of the other 8th graders come up to me today at one of their games (which I was just spectating, not coaching), and asked me why I was “having your kid and his buddies” come to varsity practices and play freshman games. All pissed off. “Why don’t you ask the rest of them?”
He had nothing to say when I told him that 1) I’ve never invited any middle schooler to practice, and 2) they come on their own and mostly do the stuff no one else wants to do. This guy’s kid is absolutely terrible (which is fine, not everyone is a ball player), and if I knew it wouldn’t be a negative experience I’d like to stick him in a high school game and let him strike out four times looking. Just to show dad that it ain’t east street for these kids.
Parents are just terrible humans and when they start saying shit like, “your kid” I get super pissed. My kid didn’t ask for the shadow over his head as a coach’s son, don’t fuckin make it worse on him, asshole. You want your son to get more playing time? Tell him to work harder than the next guy.
Luckily I’m jaded enough that I sleep like a baby at night. If they don’t like it tell the AD and get me fired (ain’t gonna happen). I have a day job and I’ll gladly go back to doing private BP and practices and sit at games in a lawn chair
Fryowa
Administrator
Nope. I don’t coach them as an individual team anymore. We only ever had 10 kids that would travel, and now that’s only about 7-8.
I coach HS ball now; so I’ll have my kid and his class from now till they graduate. It’s kinda effed up because I’ll never really get to watch my son play without coaching him. I’d really like to just grab a lawn chair and watch sometime. Even the freshman games next year I’ll be coaching bases etc.
One thing I do know is that I’m less concerned with wins as I am the coaching progress and getting to know and appreciate my players. Coaching used to piss me off and give me sleepless nights when things weren’t going well, but I can let it go a whole lot easier now.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Well, I just had to brag a bit. Our 14U AAA team started state in the Gold/Elite bracket. They were able to win in pool play and obtain the #1 seed, which can be dangerous on Sunday because you are really the hunted. They won out and won the State Championship! It was a great way to end their youth baseball, even battling the weather elements.
Fryowa
Administrator
Congratulations. Nice memories for those kids.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
Good philosophy. My varsity philosophy was a) I'll never discuss anything with a parent the day of a game, whether before or after. Emotions run wild, and as a coach there's way to much going on internally to take any kind of conversation like that seriously or put much thought into. (B) I made it clear that I would never discuss playing time with a player or parent.
I'd try to set time aside for players and parents, as I feel that if a player/parent care enough to reach out and are sincere about it, it's because they care. I would always try to find time for this and would do player evaluations at the end of each season to help direct the player in the areas of where improvement is needed and where I see them as a player, but if/the moment it became about playing time the conversation was immediately over.
I'll always be there for the kid that want's to know what he needs to do to see more time. I'll never waste my time with the "why is _________ playing while _______ isn't" or the "I/he was only in the game for 5 minutes" conversations.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
Great point on when they bring coaches kids into it at the lower levels. (1) I'll be the first to admit that I'm subconsciously harder on my kid then anyone else on the field (2) while their kids get to "turn it on and off" when they get to the field coaches kids don't have that luxury and generally get more coaching (whether good or bad) throughout the day. So to even flip the script and drag any kid, let alone a coaches kid, into the equation is an absolute dick move.This x 1,000.
My kid is an 8th grader and they have a pretty solid core to their team. There’s 4-5 of them who come to varsity practices on their own (never invited or promised anything), and they jump in whenever there’s an opportunity like shagging BP or getting some cuts and ground balls when there’s time, usually at the end. I’m fine with it because I want guys who want to practice. They know it isn’t their practice and to stay the hell out of the way when we’re drilling, etc, and they help out doing the shit work like picking balls up and moving screens around. Win/win in my eyes…
So, because we have such crappy numbers, I let these guys play up freshman ball to fill in (AD won’t let them play JV). In our conference the only schools with enough numbers to play freshman games are the really good programs, naturally. Our 8th graders get roughed up sometimes, but they don’t care because they get to play and they keep coming back.
Anywhoo, I had a parent of one of the other 8th graders come up to me today at one of their games (which I was just spectating, not coaching), and asked me why I was “having your kid and his buddies” come to varsity practices and play freshman games. All pissed off. “Why don’t you ask the rest of them?”
He had nothing to say when I told him that 1) I’ve never invited any middle schooler to practice, and 2) they come on their own and mostly do the stuff no one else wants to do. This guy’s kid is absolutely terrible (which is fine, not everyone is a ball player), and if I knew it wouldn’t be a negative experience I’d like to stick him in a high school game and let him strike out four times looking. Just to show dad that it ain’t east street for these kids.
Parents are just terrible humans and when they start saying shit like, “your kid” I get super pissed. My kid didn’t ask for the shadow over his head as a coach’s son, don’t fuckin make it worse on him, asshole. You want your son to get more playing time? Tell him to work harder than the next guy.
Luckily I’m jaded enough that I sleep like a baby at night. If they don’t like it tell the AD and get me fired (ain’t gonna happen). I have a day job and I’ll gladly go back to doing private BP and practices and sit at games in a lawn chair
Youth coaches and officials don't get into coaching/officiating for the money. There's so much time, dedication, patience, and sacrifice that goes into it that an average player/parent can't begin to understand. It's the parents who don't seem to understand that, or have unbelievable expectations with regards to their kids, that simply can't comprehend.
atomicblue224
Well-Known Member
Most coaches are not very experienced in having deaf athletes on their teams. One of the first things my coaches asked my dad was," How do I coach him? How do I communicate with him? My dad and coaches help make up some signs and it is a brilliant plan to help me understand by involving the coaches signing from the sideline When I'm on the court or on the field I would poking head above the huddle and look at the coach signaling different plays, 50 Slant or 50 half Eagle. I went from third-string in the camp to a starter first game. the coaches are always involved with my parents in any game. My dad taught all of my coaches not to yell at me because it requires patience to work with me. I think Coaches' and parents' communication should be developed in the beginning before any athletes go out for sports. That's important.
You cant have coaches yelling at deaf athletes. Except when you have a deaf coach coaching deaf athletes', That's a different story.
Fryowa
Administrator
I take it a step further and tell parents I won't discuss anything without our AD, principal, or superintendent present...one of those three who are higher up the food chain than me.
The coach before me had a really, really bad deal where a kid was quitting because of playing time (his mom was a ridiculous **** who had gone over his head to the school supe multiple times and even had "someone who knows a lot about baseball" come with her to watch a practice). Our coach tried to keep him out, told him regardless of playing time everyone has an important role, and that if he quit, he wouldn't be quitting on "me," (the coach), he'd be quitting on his teammates too. The problem was they were alone in the dugout after practice and no one heard the conversation.
Good ol' mom was on the phone to our supe within about 10 minutes telling him our coach had called her kid a quitter, how he was a jerk, and how baseball was the only sport her kid loved and now he was being run out of sports by an asshole coach.
If I ever get approached by a parent about something they're not happy with, I tell them in a very nice, as neutral as possible way, that I'd be 100% willing to sit down anytime they want with our AD to talk about whatever topic they want. I'm totally secure in all the decisions I make in games and practices, and I have zero qualms defending any of my decisions. I just won't do so without a 3rd party there. Interestingly I've never had a parent take me up on that offer, so maybe it intimidates them...but I don't care. If you feel strongly enough about what I'm doing to approach me about it, you should be able to talk about it in front of my boss at the same time.
BTW, this kid's little brother is coming up through in a few years so I may have to deal with her myself. My own kid will be a senior when this guy is a sophomore I think, so maybe I won't have to mess with him as an upperclassman. Maybe he's the second coming of Mike Trout, who knows? I've verbally committed to coaching until '25 so if it's gotten miserable at that point I'll bow out.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
I will bet the kid's parents 10 grand that he ain't the second coming of Mike Trout.
atomicblue224
Well-Known Member
You will never be at my level. I flatten you like butter on a toast!
99topdawg
Well-Known Member
Best discussion I ever had with a parent is one where the Dad jumped me after the game and his first line was "I've got a question about how you pick which players play." I thought, "Oh shit". Before I could put a stop to the conversation, he asked my why his son IS playing. He told me how his son can't field the ball and is hurting the team. He wasn't mad at his son, embarrassed or thought his son was getting embarrassed. He just thought it would be best for the team if Nathan played instead of his son. I told him that he hits a ton and so does our DH, who can't catch anything and never played in the field. I laugh about that discussion every time I think of it.
When a parent approaches me, I always set the tone with "I really appreciate you coming to me with your concern. It's always nice to discuss an outsider's view in a calm, rational manner."
I have 2 go-to lines that I use when necessary.
1) I don't expect everyone to agree with my decisions all of the time. (Earlier this year, I added, The last time that happened was Nazi Germany and we know how that turned out.) A little dissension is OK and I'll talk with anyone as long as the discussions are rational and are handled in a mature manner. (I don't add that my decisions are final, etc)
2) I'm not perfect and I'm glad people understand that.
The conversations are typically fine. I finish the talk thanking them for for being civil. For me, the conversation goes in one ear and out the other, but they feel like they accomplished something. Not usually to fool morons. If I feel the discussion gets at all heated, I'll tell them that if it does, we'll have the AD join us to finish our discussion. Otherwise, I will only bring in the admin if there's a second meeting/conversation.
I think it's OK for parents to bring legitimate concerns to coaches. For example, my son didn't get into 3 consecutive JV basketball games while everyone else played. We told our son to talk with the coaches and they gave him 3 BS reasons. I'm fine if he doesn't get in every game, even if he's the only one. I understand that he was the worst player on the team. He has hand-eye coordination like his dad had when he was a freshman in HS.
I went to the coach to make sure I was getting the whole story. My son missed 2 practices. One because he thought they had practice after school on church night when it was actually before school. He had to run a lot for that. The second was a Saturday morning practice where he overslept and he had to sit. He got his ass chewed when I got home and he lost his phone for 2 weeks. Since he couldn't call for a ride home, he got to walk the mile we live from school.
Fryowa
Administrator
The mom of these two kids is beyond anything you’ve ever seen. She literally brought someone to a practice as well as a game to watch. Told our superintendent it was someone who “knows a lot about baseball” (I saw the email) and he doesn’t see why “Johnny” isn’t playing left field but “Jimmy" is. That’s how she justified it. “Someone who knows a lot about baseball.”
Tell you what, when I’m watching the Hawks I sure feel like a man who knows a hell of a lot about football. I’m a legend in my own mind.
What amazes me is that whoever this guy was actually agreed to it when she asked, “Hey, would you be open to the idea of going to one of Johnny’s practices and a game to watch the kid who’s playing in front of him and see if his coach doesn’t know what he’s doing?”
Fryowa
Administrator
Yep I agree. I’m totally fine with talking to parents. I just don’t want to do it alone because I don’t always trust people not to twist it around.
One thing I’ll never understand though is parents who get upset about playing time at the HS level. Maybe it’s because I (think) I have a decent idea of what makes a good athlete at that level, and maybe the average Joe parent who never played doesn’t? Not sure. I get the frustration, but I’d never approach a coach.
My kid and yours must be somewhat similar when it comes to basketball. My kid is downright terrible. But, because our numbers suck ass, he’s always gotten playing time. I actually took the opposing viewpoint and found myself thinking a bunch of times, “Get his ass off that floor, coach…”
But, (and I don’t know if this is good or not) my kid has some heart and he plays hard. Doesn’t score a lick but he gets a little bit of the Rudy factor going and I think basketball/football coaches appreciate that and give him some time because of it. I know for a fact he’ll never even see JV time in basketball and the jury is out on FB. He loves baseball and I’m guessing that’s where he’s gonna gravitate to.
And BTW when I said our kids might be similar, I wasn’t insinuating that yours was terrible at any sport. That’s mine. Lol.
