Ferentz is best player developer in NCAA
- Thread starter AdamHawk
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MisterLucky
Well-Known Member
Just think of what he might do if we were able to recruit a higher caliber of recruit to begin with.
Yes, you are right about DE historically. However, since Adrian, it seems we haven't been able to land a really really good one. I like Ott, don't get me wrong but I'm not sure he will be in the same class of playmaker that we had in the past.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Well this is the Homer I've come to expect. No real reasoning or actual thought at all to this post. If it is so easy to do, why don't other programs come close to what KF does? Why don't all non blue bloods who live and die with 2 & 3* kids have this kind of success in developing them?
Listen KF is open to much criticism with different aspects of his coaching. Trying to attack his development of players is bordering on perm-a-ban stupidity if you ask me.
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
This is why Iowa doesn't get the gifted athlete: Iowa doesn't use the gifted athlete. I can't make it any plainer.
Why Lazar went to ISU. Why Morton went to Wisconsin. McNutt and DJK weren't WRs in high school. Neither made it in the NFL. Why Iowa DBs are always safeties in the NFL because, until Phil Parker, Iowa CBs weren't taught how to defend a receiver they were taught to defend an area. Matter of fact, very few Iowa DBs make it as DBs in the NFL.
Finally, one position Ferentz can't develop at all: the gifted player.
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hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
I think virtually everyone does. KFz is widely praised for his player development. The criticism he gets comes in other areas.
Why is it some people don't understand that?
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I thought Lazard went to ISU because of long standing family connections there.
imported_ankle23
Well-Known Member
when has iowa ever been able to recruit "gifted" WRs?
All the Iowa WR records are currently held by Ferentz players - outside of 1, I do believe. so if one was to believe you, Iowa has never been a holder of gifted WR given that Ferentz has never had any, and his receivers hold all the WR records...
do you think Alabama, for example, develops 'gifted' athletes? or do they just 'plug and chug'?
who, in your opinion, has been the best developer of 'gifted' athletes in the last ten years. or are they simply gifted at being at a 'blue chip' school that draws in 'gifted' athletes year over year and in a conference that allows them to sign more 'gifted' athletes than are otherwise allowed, allowing for other schools to have an opportunity at these 'gifted' athletes.
Finally, i'm guessing you haven't been around D1 athletes a whole lot. these people are all gifted athletes. a guy who can play D1 football - these guys are special athletes, no matter the position. are some better than others? sure. Scherff was listed as #2 on a 'freak list'. (i'd gather that would make him a 'gifted' athlete, but i digress....)
gohawkz
Well-Known Member
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Why don't people understand that when you are developing 2-3 star talent it usually take 4-5 years for them to become NFL type players. Trying to time all your 2-3 star players to to be consistently graduating at the same time 4-5 years later is difficult, hence the lack of the 80% winning percentage. It's interesting, Iowa usually has 10 win teams when they have a lot of 5th year seniors on the DL and OL, with a mix of 4th year guys. You will occasionally get one of those gifted players (Bulaga/Rieff/Gallery), but the major are the former. Hmmm...how does 2014 look in this area? I'd say the winning percentage goes up this year as the depth chart is trending positive for a key marker for a Ferentz successful season.
For one gifted player is a pretty vague and extremely subjective measure to gauge a player by. Lazard is a clone because of his family. His Dad played there and I believe his Mom works there. Not to mention he hasn't played a snap of football yet so who knows what he is or isn't capable of. McNutts career isn't over yet I believe he's in the Panthers camp and they are extremely thin at WR after Steve Smith left so he may very well get a good shot this year. Your take on corners always switching to safetys isn't either because your being vague. Do you know how long Parker has been at Iowa? He's been there since day 1 of Ferentz being the head coach. The reason Godfrey switched was his size. To me he was a pretty gifted athlete 6'2 200 lb guy running a 4.3 and hit like a truck.... Hyde is more of a Merton Hanks type of player I think he's very well suited for being a rover/free safety type. I'd forgotten Bernstein earlier he never really got settled in to a position at Iowa he was all over probably could have been good at either spot if he'd have been healthy and stayed at one or the other. Bernstein wasn't big but he was a gifted athlete a lot of schools wanted I believe he had an offer from and visited UCLA among others. Prater and Bradley are both corners in the NFL and Bradleys been around awhile now.
The gifted player card is interesting to me. Shonn Greene was pretty gifted I thought. He's done well for himself. Pick a TE any TE and I'd say they were gifted and have done well for themselves. I thought I heard a stat that every senior starter that's played for Ferentz at TE has been drafted... If you want to nit pick and say Iowa hasn't recruited & developed QBs and WRs on the scale of Oklahoma and some other schools then ok you'd win that comparison but you seem to be grasping at straws with what your saying.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
Say Hello to Nick Saban and Alabama.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Chumpless. You make being a Hawk fan "real"...
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
This post is riddled with fail.
"Matter of fact, very few Iowa DBs make it as DBs in the NFL"
Sean Considine
Derek Pagel
Bob Sanders
Bradley Fletcher
Marcus Paschall
Tyler Sash
Amari Spievey
Micah Hyde
Shaun Prater
Charles Godfrey
and Matt Bowen all say hello.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
<<Why Lazar went to ISU>>
So much fail
<<Why Morton went to Wissconsin>>
CRAIG Morton?
<<McNutt and DJK weren't WRs in high school>>
Yet, became All-B!G WRs at Iowa...
<<Matter of fact, very few Iowa DBs make it as DBs in the NFK>>
Would that include Bob Sanders, Sean Considine, Derek Pagel and Tyler Sash?
Great post, Chumpless. You're TOTALLY all over this gig. So spot on. We need you doing a weekly column for Jon's site. "Morton" can be a contributor, no?
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Hey, you all forgot about "Morton". Ask Chumpless if you're drawing a blank.
AreWeThereYet
Well-Known Member
Going back to the source articles on the chances of being drafted in the NFL
Average chances for D1 programs.
5 star recruits = three in five
4 star recruits = one in five
3 star recruits = one in eighteen
2 star recruits = one in 32
Iowa under Ferentz
4 & 5 star recruits = one in four
3 star recruits = one in six
2 star recruits = one in six
There haven't been many five star recruits at Iowa and a believe they have all been offensive linemen. Injuries have taken a couple of those out of the picture.
A few straight forward observations.
The two and three star players offered by Iowa must have considerable raw talent for the odds of making the NFL to be as high as one in six. You would have a hard time finding a staff better at evaluating and developing raw talent.
Iowa's player development program is good for 4 & 5 star players, but statistically less of a freakish outlier. For higher rated recruits odds of getting into the NFL go up from an average of 20% to 25% at Iowa. That's on the high end of the statistical curve but not off the scale like it is for lower ranking recruits.
We know that Iowa produces a disproportionate number of NFL linemen both offensive and defensive along with a nice crop of tight ends. Productivity has been good at linebacker and Iowa's corners tend to be their most talented defensive backs and will often find their way into the NFL. They've had a few NFL players at RB, SS, FS, K, P, and a backup QB. If there is one position Iowa has been underrepresented it is at wide receiver.
We know that attrition has been one of the chief concerns over the last few years. The defensive line looks to be making it's way back to the expected quality. The running back load seems to be getting a little more spread out, to avoid wear and tear on the primary back. Iowa has been choosing players a little closer to home (within 400 miles) and fewer players with academic issues.
Average chances for D1 programs.
5 star recruits = three in five
4 star recruits = one in five
3 star recruits = one in eighteen
2 star recruits = one in 32
Iowa under Ferentz
4 & 5 star recruits = one in four
3 star recruits = one in six
2 star recruits = one in six
There haven't been many five star recruits at Iowa and a believe they have all been offensive linemen. Injuries have taken a couple of those out of the picture.
A few straight forward observations.
The two and three star players offered by Iowa must have considerable raw talent for the odds of making the NFL to be as high as one in six. You would have a hard time finding a staff better at evaluating and developing raw talent.
Iowa's player development program is good for 4 & 5 star players, but statistically less of a freakish outlier. For higher rated recruits odds of getting into the NFL go up from an average of 20% to 25% at Iowa. That's on the high end of the statistical curve but not off the scale like it is for lower ranking recruits.
We know that Iowa produces a disproportionate number of NFL linemen both offensive and defensive along with a nice crop of tight ends. Productivity has been good at linebacker and Iowa's corners tend to be their most talented defensive backs and will often find their way into the NFL. They've had a few NFL players at RB, SS, FS, K, P, and a backup QB. If there is one position Iowa has been underrepresented it is at wide receiver.
We know that attrition has been one of the chief concerns over the last few years. The defensive line looks to be making it's way back to the expected quality. The running back load seems to be getting a little more spread out, to avoid wear and tear on the primary back. Iowa has been choosing players a little closer to home (within 400 miles) and fewer players with academic issues.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
This is key. The staff can identify under recognized talent. It isn't that those kids were never good enough talent wise to reach the NFL, it is just everyone else didn't see it, but Iowa does. That is why when Iowa offers a 2* or 3* kid that nobody else is offering besides MAC level teams, I automatically think they see what they like, so they offered. It is more likely that others are missing on this kid, than Iowa is missing on this kid. When they get them on campus they also excel at developing those skills they saw in the kid after they identified the talent.
That is why when everyone b!tches and moans about KF and say he is an awful coach, I totally disagree. Sure he has his weaknesses, but his strength far and away make up for those weaknesses. The identifying of talent, and developing of that talent is tremendous, as this article proves. He isn't avg. at this, he isn't ok at this, he is at an elite level amongst elite peers at doing this. The fact other Iowa fans can't see this is dumbfounding actually.
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Am referring to Phil Parker the DC not Phil Parker the defensive backs coach... As coach under a coordinator (or head coach), one plays to the personality, the philosophy of the coordinator or head coach (at least in the Iowa situation).
Some head coaches like, for instance, Hayden like to delegate, other head coaches, like for instance, KF don't.
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