Don't respond to 56 Thread

deanvogs

deanvogs

Well-Known Member
So I think that real Hawk fans need to have a real Hawk discussion/Rant if you need (like me) and we don't need 56 Trolling derailing everything. So whatever you do, don't reply to 56 when he inevitably comes to Troll and derail the thread.

Ok first off our Fr. are all pretty crappy at this point. None of them have a clue on how to play in the B1G yet. They don't know how to respond to getting bodied up, pressured, and harassed all over the court. Cook can't hold onto the ball, Pemsl all of a sudden seems weak around the rim, neither can defend, Jordan can't hit a shot, and can't keep anyone in front of him, and Moss has disappeared. The only one who seems ready for B1G play is the kid who didn't play hardly at all in the non con schedule and the is Kriener.

Secondly, Fran really has no clue as to a rotation yet. The season is 2/3 the way done, and he is still experimenting like it is game 4.

Thirdly, why are we still starting 3 guys who can't defend, 1 who won't defend (because he is obviously hurt) and a guy who doesn't even play in the second half? We have gotten into a hole in the last several games and we are playing from behind the whole game. Start you best players. If they are the guys you want in at the end, you want them in at the beginning. Cook and Pemsl out of the starting lineup and Wagner and Baer in.

Lastly, when players are injured or sick, sit them the **** down Fran. Jordan and Jok totally hamstrung the team the entire time they were in the game. Pete had 4 TO, Jordan hit 1 shot. I mean it is one thing to let them play through a bad game. It is a different story when they are so limited by illness or injury that they actually hurt the team more than help. They both should have played maybe 5-10 min a piece tops.
 
deanvogs said:
So I think that real Hawk fans need to have a real Hawk discussion/Rant if you need (like me) and we don't need 56 Trolling derailing everything. So whatever you do, don't reply to 56 when he inevitably comes to Troll and derail the thread.

Ok first off our Fr. are all pretty crappy at this point. None of them have a clue on how to play in the B1G yet. They don't know how to respond to getting bodied up, pressured, and harassed all over the court. Cook can't hold onto the ball, Pemsl all of a sudden seems weak around the rim, neither can defend, Jordan can't hit a shot, and can't keep anyone in front of him, and Moss has disappeared. The only one who seems ready for B1G play is the kid who didn't play hardly at all in the non con schedule and the is Kriener.

Secondly, Fran really has no clue as to a rotation yet. The season is 2/3 the way done, and he is still experimenting like it is game 4.

Thirdly, why are we still starting 3 guys who can't defend, 1 who won't defend (because he is obviously hurt) and a guy who doesn't even play in the second half? We have gotten into a hole in the last several games and we are playing from behind the whole game. Start you best players. If they are the guys you want in at the end, you want them in at the beginning. Cook and Pemsl out of the starting lineup and Wagner and Baer in.

Lastly, when players are injured or sick, sit them the **** down Fran. Jordan and Jok totally hamstrung the team the entire time they were in the game. Pete had 4 TO, Jordan hit 1 shot. I mean it is one thing to let them play through a bad game. It is a different story when they are so limited by illness or injury that they actually hurt the team more than help. They both should have played maybe 5-10 min a piece tops.
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with everything. A couple things tho. Fran doesn't have a rotation because players are taking turns being good. Cook and Pemsl were our 2nd and 3rd best players until a few games ago. Now they are two of the worst. Uhl and Wagner looked like they were about to quit seeing the floor at all. Now they're good. Krinner comes in out of necessity once and looks like he belongs. It's a weird year for sure.

Also as far as sitting Jok and Bohannon goes, they could have easily struggled but still made shots. Especially Bohannon being sick. If he would have made a couple more 3s it would have been a game. I agree about sitting Jok more than Bohannon tho. Bohannon was more of a hindsight because he wasn't making shots. At one point he made a 3, rattled one out, then made one after the whistle that didn't count. Fran probably noticed that. Also the drop off after him is so big I see rolling the dice with him.
 
PCHawk said:
By the way, great thread. It will be nice to vent and talk about the negatives without always being forced to defend players because a clone fan comes in and rips them.
Click to expand...

Yep, that is the point, and will be nice.

I think you start and play both Jordan and Pete, but it was pretty evident early on Pete wasn't Pete. Playing 30+ min. was ridiculous. Jordan was more reasonable playing like 20 min., but that was still too much. After watching him play 5 min. you kind of saw he shouldn't really be out there.
 
hawkfan44 said:
Great thread title! I think we all need not respond to Twins. I'm just watching this year, hoping to see the young guys improve. Hoping for more consistency as the year winds down.
Click to expand...

Agreed, yet at times it gets frustrating. Obviously the Jok injury is really hurting us right now, yet it seemed like we were playing better, especially defensively for a stretch. It was when Cook was injured, and I know he isn't a good defender, but I can't believe that is the only reason.
 
deanvogs said:
Agreed, yet at times it gets frustrating. Obviously the Jok injury is really hurting us right now, yet it seemed like we were playing better, especially defensively for a stretch. It was when Cook was injured, and I know he isn't a good defender, but I can't believe that is the only reason.
Click to expand...

His defense is really bad tho. I'm sure it's not 100% on him obviously. But it seems like when he's in, opponents score at will.
 
You could see the illness and injury affect their shots. Jok airballs a wide open 3...and JBo was shorting everything with no legs. Neither should have played...clearly.

Cook has the raw skills, but not the defensive awareness or offensive patience, yet. The "power dribble" needs to go.

Williams actually looked good driving to the hoop but just can shoot at all.

Pemsl looked a little better tonight, but still out of position on D.

There are flashes of what could be, even on defense, but so incredibly inconsistent.

FTs...my god...FTs. hell, they alone coulda made this game tight at the end.

Even with all of that, it came down to not starting down 10 right off the bat....for like the 3rd consecutive game.

These Hawks are frustrating to watch at times but man they don't give up. Had about 3 different chances to make it close, just to many missed shots and opportunities.

Good thread.
 
deanvogs said:
So I think that real Hawk fans need to have a real Hawk discussion/Rant if you need (like me) and we don't need 56 Trolling derailing everything. So whatever you do, don't reply to 56 when he inevitably comes to Troll and derail the thread.

Ok first off our Fr. are all pretty crappy at this point. None of them have a clue on how to play in the B1G yet. They don't know how to respond to getting bodied up, pressured, and harassed all over the court. Cook can't hold onto the ball, Pemsl all of a sudden seems weak around the rim, neither can defend, Jordan can't hit a shot, and can't keep anyone in front of him, and Moss has disappeared. The only one who seems ready for B1G play is the kid who didn't play hardly at all in the non con schedule and the is Kriener.

Secondly, Fran really has no clue as to a rotation yet. The season is 2/3 the way done, and he is still experimenting like it is game 4.

Thirdly, why are we still starting 3 guys who can't defend, 1 who won't defend (because he is obviously hurt) and a guy who doesn't even play in the second half? We have gotten into a hole in the last several games and we are playing from behind the whole game. Start you best players. If they are the guys you want in at the end, you want them in at the beginning. Cook and Pemsl out of the starting lineup and Wagner and Baer in.

Lastly, when players are injured or sick, sit them the **** down Fran. Jordan and Jok totally hamstrung the team the entire time they were in the game. Pete had 4 TO, Jordan hit 1 shot. I mean it is one thing to let them play through a bad game. It is a different story when they are so limited by illness or injury that they actually hurt the team more than help. They both should have played maybe 5-10 min a piece tops.
Click to expand...

This is easily the most logical thing you've ever posted. It sucks it took a loss to a bad Illinois team for you to see the light
 
Another thing is the roster makeup. I just don't get what Fran is doing. So we have right now for Bigs next year:

Sr: Uhl
Jr: Wagner, Baer
So: Cook, Pemsl, Kriener
Fr: Garza, Nunge

That is 8 player who can play the 4/5. WTF man, it is like Fran doesn't think there is another 3 spots on the floor to put players at??? At the same time he goes 4 years without bringing in a PG that sticks around??

PG: Bohannon and ??
Wings: Moss, Ellingson, Dailey, Williams and Conner

Sorry, but that is just a horrible overall collection of Guards, taken as a whole. Jordan has limitations, Moss isn't there yet, Ellingson and Williams have shown they aren't B1G starters. Dailey, who knows, but I doubt he is ready, and Conner isn't going to come in and be a savior.

We need to have another PG in the worst way, and no not another Williams experiment, or Conner experiment at PG. Fran has now done this 2 time (Marble and Williams), it ain't working Fran! Marble was serviceable for a short stint, but he thrived on the wing, that is where he should have been all along. Same with Williams, he should have always been a slasher, not a PG. Same is going to happen with Conner if he thinks a 6'5 kid with limited lateral quickness can be a PG when Marble and Williams couldn't, then he is nuts.

Overall the front court can be solid, but we have too many scholarship players (8) for only 2 positions on the floor 4/5 spots. The guard court next year is going to be scary bad the way it stands right now.
 
I wouldn't read a ton into last nights loss. Playing on the road is never easy for a young team and there is still reason for optimism with our freshmen players. I couldn't imagine trying to play basketball with the flu yet Bohannon made it through and it is obvious Jok is hurt, I only question why Fran kept putting him out there.

The issues of Pemsl and Cook are fixable and typically correct themselves with experience. We do need another PG, I know some of you are tired of reading this but Bohannon doesn't have the quickness to defend the point or dribble penetrate. But he is a decent passer and I like his shooting ability.

Hopefully they can regroup and knock down Ohio State!
 
ssckelley said:
I wouldn't read a ton into last nights loss. Playing on the road is never easy for a young team and there is still reason for optimism with our freshmen players. I couldn't imagine trying to play basketball with the flu yet Bohannon made it through and it is obvious Jok is hurt, I only question why Fran kept putting him out there.

The issues of Pemsl and Cook are fixable and typically correct themselves with experience. We do need another PG, I know some of you are tired of reading this but Bohannon doesn't have the quickness to defend the point or dribble penetrate. But he is a decent passer and I like his shooting ability.

Hopefully they can regroup and knock down Ohio State!
Click to expand...

I agree, but most of what I said has nothing to do with one game (beside Fran playing Jok and Jordan last night more than he should have). We have some glaring weakness as the Guard positions now, and it will become more glaring next year.
 
deanvogs said:
I agree, but most of what I said has nothing to do with one game (beside Fran playing Jok and Jordan last night more than he should have). We have some glaring weakness as the Guard positions now, and it will become more glaring next year.
Click to expand...

We need at least 15 points per game between Moss and Dailey next year or we're in serious trouble. 2 weeks ago I would say we will have one of the better front courts in the conference for the next few years, but after watching Pemsl and Cook lately, it's hard to think that anymore. They both have a nack for making easy plays look hard.
 
ssckelley said:
I wouldn't read a ton into last nights loss. Playing on the road is never easy for a young team and there is still reason for optimism with our freshmen players. I couldn't imagine trying to play basketball with the flu yet Bohannon made it through and it is obvious Jok is hurt, I only question why Fran kept putting him out there.

The issues of Pemsl and Cook are fixable and typically correct themselves with experience. We do need another PG, I know some of you are tired of reading this but Bohannon doesn't have the quickness to defend the point or dribble penetrate. But he is a decent passer and I like his shooting ability.

Hopefully they can regroup and knock down Ohio State!
Click to expand...

Agreed all around. I don't think anyone disagrees about Jbo's limitations, although I do believe with better defensive position from the 4's and 5's, his defensive limitations would be mitigated greatly. I don't believe he'll ever be a great defender, but I do believe he'll become a good overall point gaurd.

That said, we need to get a couple more points...soon, and hope they pan out. Fran has shown ability to recruit 2, 3, 4, 5, but a great 1 remains elusive.

I still have high hopes given the overally athleticism of the team, but that is with assumption of fundamental and bball iq improvement.

This team needs a win badly. Love Fran overall, but next year will be telling for the long haul.
 
PCHawk said:
We need at least 15 points per game between Moss and Dailey next year or we're in serious trouble. 2 weeks ago I would say we will have one of the better front courts in the conference for the next few years, but after watching Pemsl and Cook lately, it's hard to think that anymore. They both have a nack for making easy plays look hard.
Click to expand...

Moss can be that guy(we've seen the ability, it's the mental side with him I believ), Dailey is an unknown.

Cook and Pemsl, with development, can be what we all hoped, their issues are fundamental, defensive position and offensive patience. But it would give me comfort to see a couple solid games from them and a solid year end...
 
HawkeyeWalker said:
Moss can be that guy(we've seen the ability, it's the mental side with him I believ), Dailey is an unknown.

Cook and Pemsl, with development, can be what we all hoped, their issues are fundamental, defensive position and offensive patience. But it would give me comfort to see a couple solid games from them and a solid year end...
Click to expand...

The announcers were talking about how Kriener plays with good patience for a freshman. Part of me thinks if he can dobit, why can't they. Then the other part thinks if it was easy or common, the announcers wouldn't point it out.
 
Take a guy who gets you 20 points a night and draws a ton of attention and then turn him into a shell of his former self... The results we've seen the last few games probably aren't that surprising.
 
PCHawk said:
The announcers were talking about how Kriener plays with good patience for a freshman. Part of me thinks if he can dobit, why can't they. Then the other part thinks if it was easy or common, the announcers wouldn't point it out.
Click to expand...

As far as Cook, he has such high expectations, I think he's just pressing and forcing to much, which would explain the fumble fingers to a point. If he can just improve defense position and offensive patience...hell be right there. A mid range humber of any kind would make him a nightmare.
 
deanvogs said:
I agree, but most of what I said has nothing to do with one game (beside Fran playing Jok and Jordan last night more than he should have). We have some glaring weakness as the Guard positions now, and it will become more glaring next year.
Click to expand...

Hey at least you've acknowledged your own weakness. ;)

It would be nice if every thread on here didn't turn into a dual with 5656.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top