Do you want Jok in NIT?

[DP5555]

This team will have 7 months to learn how to play without Jok. For now they need him.

I think there's evidence that points to the contrary. The team has played pretty damn well without him.

Jok is a good kid, and he's been a great Hawkeye. I'm proud of the way he's grown up as a player in an Iowa uniform.

With that said, I'd rather he sit out the NIT if he's going to give the kind of effort he did against Indiana. That's embarrassing. It's embarrassing as a fan. It's embarrassing to his teammates, and to his coaching staff. It should be embarrassing to him as well. There were at least two times in that game where he intentionally didn't even try to defend a layup. Absolutely no excuse for that type of BS. Put someone in the game who is going to try. I give better effort than that when I play pickup ball out on the driveway.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Just wondering what everyone thought. Clearly Jok has been a great player for us and likely gives us the best chance to make a run here. This thread is not meant to knock him.

With that said it could make some sense. To me he still doesn't seem 100% physically and this could give him an opportunity to heal up and start preparing for the NBA draft process.

He also plays 30 minutes a game and those minutes would give opportunities for some of our younger guys to gain some more experience in competitive games.

What say you?

Edit. To be clear. Pete & Fran would both be involved in this decision.

Christian McCaffery-Leonard Fournette Rule applies...

 

[atomicblue224]

 

[DodgerHawki]

Jok hasn't been an effective player for at least the last two months. Here's his line since the Purdue home win on January 12th:

15PPG / 35% FG / 28% 3p / 3 TOPG

As I've said I believe that is because he is still injured. Even in the Indiana game with a wide open look at three it appeared to me he needed all of his strength just to get it there. Early in the year he could shoot from way behind three with very little effort.

But even that's not the point here. Jok is a great player and a great Hawk so if he wants to play he clearly has every right to.

My question was in a hypothetical scenario if Jok was considering sitting out would people be like:

-yes let's see what these young kids can do

Or

-no our chances of winning the NIT aren't as great now

Thank you for bringing facts to the discussion. Since that time, he has been very inefficient volume scorer. Shooting 35% from the field and 28% from 3 isn't helping the team, with the volume of shots he puts up.

My hope is that he is healthy enough to play well for however long Iowa is in the NIT. I also hope that Fran makes the decision to take him out if he's either unhealthy enough or just uninterested in trying on defense.

 

[HawkGold]

Look at Iowa from an opponent view.

1. Is the Pt Guard going to drive and score? No
2. Is the Pt Guard going to drive and assist? No
3. Is the Pt Guard going to make great passes from the perimeter? Yes
4. Is the Pt Guard going to hit from 3? Yes but 18th in Big 10.

5. Are big men a real threat to score outside? Only 1 (NB and he's not that big)
6. Are big men a threat for an offensive rebound? Baer is 18th in Big in Rebounds and about the same on O rebounds. Jok is 2nd on team and 21 overall.
7. Scoring threats. Cook is 31st. no other is in top 40.

Jok is 4th in ft attempts. 2nd in Ft made. He missed several games.

The guy gets hammered. And some of you think he is lazy and doesn't care. That he is a hinderance. OK

If I'm John Beilien. Stop Jok.

 

[Hawk4Fan]

I think there's evidence that points to the contrary. The team has played pretty damn well without him.

Jok is a good kid, and he's been a great Hawkeye. I'm proud of the way he's grown up as a player in an Iowa uniform.

With that said, I'd rather he sit out the NIT if he's going to give the kind of effort he did against Indiana. That's embarrassing. It's embarrassing as a fan. It's embarrassing to his teammates, and to his coaching staff. It should be embarrassing to him as well. There were at least two times in that game where he intentionally didn't even try to defend a layup. Absolutely no excuse for that type of BS. Put someone in the game who is going to try. I give better effort than that when I play pickup ball out on the driveway.

I guess bear needs to sit to since his game and effort agains INdy was as bad as jok's

The hate for Jok around here is getting pathetic, but really nothing new at all for Iowa fans to bash their own pathetically...even when that player is one of best in the League,.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Look at Iowa from an opponent view.

1. Is the Pt Guard going to drive and score? No
2. Is the Pt Guard going to drive and assist? No
3. Is the Pt Guard going to make great passes from the perimeter? Yes
4. Is the Pt Guard going to hit from 3? Yes but 18th in Big 10.

5. Are big men a real threat to score outside? Only 1 (NB and he's not that big)
6. Are big men a threat for an offensive rebound? Baer is 18th in Big in Rebounds and about the same on O rebounds. Jok is 2nd on team and 21 overall.
7. Scoring threats. Cook is 31st. no other is in top 40.

Jok is 4th in ft attempts. 2nd in Ft made. He missed several games.

The guy gets hammered. And some of you think he is lazy and doesn't care. That he is a hinderance. OK

If I'm John Beilien. Stop Jok.

As with most of your basketball related posts, I disagree with most if not all of what you said. And especially the stats you use to proved them.

JBo the 18th best 3pt shooter in the conference? Lol. By that logic Uhl was the best 3pt shooter in the league last year (%).

You say there are no other scoring options because Cook is only 31st in the league. Do you think that may be a product of Jok shooting 14.5 shots a game?

 

[HawkGold]

As with most of your basketball related posts, I disagree with most if not all of what you said. And especially the stats you use to proved them.

JBo the 18th best 3pt shooter in the conference? Lol. By that logic Uhl was the best 3pt shooter in the league last year (%).

You say there are no other scoring options because Cook is only 31st in the league. Do you think that may be a product of Jok shooting 14.5 shots a game?

It's a question we don't know based in part do to the weak schedule played when Jok was out. I would say that most teams have someone not dissimilar to JB. What they don't have is a PJ. Iowa's late run against the better of the Big was with PJ, not without him.

The guy gets hammered. That is a product of defensive attention. To beat the Hawks, you have to stop PJ. You don't have to stop penetration by very many. You don't have to stop points after OF rebounds compared to most teams. You aren't going to give up massive amounts of ft's to anyone other than Jok. You do have to pay attention to where JB is after an OF rebound, but it is not a big threat due to lack of OF rebounds in general.

You are welcome to disagree. Go ahead and give some analysis other than saying you don't agree. I see the stats you gave. On their own w/o a big picture view, the reason for lower output is questionable.

The kid gives his all and fans want him not playing.

The real issues boil down to not having a true pt guard and a true big man. J Bo gets open because of attention to PJ.

 

[revkev73]

Why is a fan, coach, or teammate not allowed to be disappointed, upset, frustrated when the senior on the team doesn't feel like playing defense? It is kind of important to team success.

 

[HawkGold]

Why is a fan, coach, or teammate not allowed to be disappointed, upset, frustrated when the senior on the team doesn't feel like playing defense? It is kind of important to team success.

Nothing wrong with it at all. Nothing wrong with pointing out that it just might not be true. Other teams may have something to do with it. Maybe he's frustrated with coaching or lack of support from team mates. Maybe he's trying hard and he's getting hammered which is my opinion.

 

[NikeHawk21]

It's a question we don't know based in part do to the weak schedule played when Jok was out. I would say that most teams have someone not dissimilar to JB. What they don't have is a PJ. Iowa's late run against the better of the Big was with PJ, not without him.

The guy gets hammered. That is a product of defensive attention. To beat the Hawks, you have to stop PJ. You don't have to stop penetration by very many. You don't have to stop points after OF rebounds compared to most teams. You aren't going to give up massive amounts of ft's to anyone other than Jok. You do have to pay attention to where JB is after an OF rebound, but it is not a big threat due to lack of OF rebounds in general.

You are welcome to disagree. Go ahead and give some analysis other than saying you don't agree. I see the stats you gave. On their own w/o a big picture view, the reason for lower output is questionable.

The kid gives his all and fans want him not playing.

The real issues boil down to not having a true pt guard and a true big man. J Bo gets open because of attention to PJ.

Jordan made 9 threes in the two games Jok was out so it didn't appear it was Jok getting him open.

Name one player similar to JBo in terms of ability to shoot the three off the dribble and from range. Hint. There isn't any.

Iowa was 5th in the B1G in offensive rebounds. (Granted they attempted the most shots)

Jok is a great player and a great Hawk. As I've said I believe he is hurt and the stats very much spell that out over the last two months. Does he attract attention? Sure. But if you recall he didn't really do much at Maryland and at UW which were are two biggest wins in that stretch. See below.

( 5/20 FG / 5 assists / 8 turnovers / 7 Reb )

I never said we should bench him. I said if Jok decided to skip the NIT to prepare for the next level I would be for it, and would be excited to watch the young team without him. That's not hating on Jok.

Also why are you getting mad at others for questioning Jok but you can say we need a different PG after JBo just was 1st team all B1G Freshman?

Lots of drivel to digest with each of your posts.

 

[HawkGold]

Jordan made 9 threes in the two games Jok was out so it didn't appear it was Jok getting him open.

Name one player similar to JBo in terms of ability to shoot the three off the dribble and from range. Hint. There isn't any.

Iowa was 5th in the B1G in offensive rebounds. (Granted they attempted the most shots)

Jok is a great player and a great Hawk. As I've said I believe he is hurt and the stats very much spell that out over the last two months. Does he attract attention? Sure. But if you recall he didn't really do much at Maryland and at UW which were are two biggest wins in that stretch. See below.

( 5/20 FG / 5 assists / 8 turnovers / 7 Reb )

I never said we should bench him. I said if Jok decided to skip the NIT to prepare for the next level I would be for it, and would be excited to watch the young team without him. That's not hating on Jok.

Also why are you getting mad at others for questioning Jok but you can say we need a different PG after JBo just was 1st team all B1G Freshman?

Lots of drivel to digest with each of your posts.

First, I'm not getting mad. Words like drivel say something about your state of mind on the matter. Disagreeing is not being "mad".

I agree about Jok being not 100 percent. I disagree about the assessment of JB. It takes teams a bit to adjust. It is a mistake for anyone to leave JB open period. Of course he would get more shots w Jok out. There aren't many shooters on this team. Iowa also shoots a lot of 3's overall and long rebounds oft go to the shooting team. They also shoot a lot of shots. However, Iowa doesn't have any individual dominating O re-bounders. Iowa just doesn't have many threats to create shots. PJ does. JB's passing allows a number of open shots.

To stop Iowa w/o Jok, one needs to pressure the edges and take away JB's feet. The idea would be to make Iowa score inside and the Hawks just don't have that threat. W Jok in the game, there is that middle penetration and mid range jumper (which he is struggling with given his controversial injury. PJ can also go to the hoop.

If Iowa had more talent/experience inside they would be a tough out. Maybe next year will happen but they need a threat to penetrate. Actually a couple of threats. Maybe will happen w/ more experience next year.

 

[NikeHawk21]

First, I'm not getting mad. Words like drivel say something about your state of mind on the matter. Disagreeing is not being "mad".

I agree about Jok being not 100 percent. I disagree about the assessment of JB. It takes teams a bit to adjust. It is a mistake for anyone to leave JB open period. Of course he would get more shots w Jok out. There aren't many shooters on this team. Iowa also shoots a lot of 3's overall and long rebounds oft go to the shooting team. They also shoot a lot of shots. However, Iowa doesn't have any individual dominating O re-bounders. Iowa just doesn't have many threats to create shots. PJ does. JB's passing allows a number of open shots.

To stop Iowa w/o Jok, one needs to pressure the edges and take away JB's feet. The idea would be to make Iowa score inside and the Hawks just don't have that threat. W Jok in the game, there is that middle penetration and mid range jumper (which he is struggling with given his controversial injury. PJ can also go to the hoop.

If Iowa had more talent/experience inside they would be a tough out. Maybe next year will happen but they need a threat to penetrate. Actually a couple of threats. Maybe will happen w/ more experience next year.

I think Wagner and Baer are both good Offensive rebounders. Cook started to come on at the end of the year.

Iowa had more of an inside presence this year than I recall them having in the FM era.

Pemsl lead the conference in FG % and averaged 9ppg all in the post.

Cook scored over 10 PPG primarily in the post.

Those are two of the best low post threats we've had in a long time.

Jok isn't really a shot creator IMO. He runs off several screens every possession. He's added some ability to create to his game but that's certainly not his strength. He's a catch and shoot jump shooter by trade.

So you're assertions about this team in this thread:
- Not many shooters (lol!)
- No low post threats
- No shot creators

How in the world did we average 80PPG?

 

[revkev73]

You can average 80ppg if you shoot well, or for a combination of other reasons...like playing terrible transition defense (gives you lots of extra shots and possessions, you get the ball back quick and often)...you allow wide open three point shots early in the shot clock (which allows for more possessions to shoot it)...et. al....you can also average 80ppg if the opponents play up tempo and don't care about defense much either...Omaha, et. al...

There you have it...

 

[HawkGold]

I think Wagner and Baer are both good Offensive rebounders. Cook started to come on at the end of the year.

Iowa had more of an inside presence this year than I recall them having in the FM era.

Pemsl lead the conference in FG % and averaged 9ppg all in the post.

Cook scored over 10 PPG primarily in the post.

Those are two of the best low post threats we've had in a long time.

Jok isn't really a shot creator IMO. He runs off several screens every possession. He's added some ability to create to his game but that's certainly not his strength. He's a catch and shoot jump shooter by trade.

So you're assertions about this team in this thread:
- Not many shooters (lol!)
- No low post threats
- No shot creators

How in the world did we average 80PPG?

I think Wagner and Baer are both good Offensive rebounders. Cook started to come on at the end of the year. They aren't bad, but nothing that other Big Teams don't have...and some on bench.

Iowa had more of an inside presence this year than I recall them having in the FM era Woody was presence, just not what we all wanted him to be.

Cook scored over 10 PPG primarily in the post. He's not a back to the basket type big. He'll be good.

Pemsl lead the conference in FG % and averaged 9ppg all in the pos Note worthy stats and short shots increase percentage. 9 points are closer to 7.5 on a team that plays better D and doesn't push the ball so much.

Those are two of the best low post threats we've had in a long time. Pemsyl isn't much bigger than White or OSU's Lyle keep in mind. Iowa has a number of 4's not a 5.

Jok isn't really a shot creator IMO. He runs off several screens every possession. He's added some ability to create to his game but that's certainly not his strength. He's a catch and shoot jump shooter by trade.
Actually this ability to create is under appreciated in my opinion.

So you're assertions about this team in this thread:
- Not many shooters (lol!) Not on the court at the same time...Yes that is true.
- No low post threats No traditional post player...True
- No shot creators Pretty much true outside of Jock. Cook is developing.

They scored so many points by:

Pushing ball
Transition

VA held Iowa to the lowest points of any P5 team. Pitt was close, but was held low by a number of teams and I think GT which struggled on O with P5 teams.

Iowa has shown promise as long as they improve. VA, NW, and WI, some of the best D's in the nation did pretty well against Iowa.

Still, in the end we disagree about PJ. I think the guy is pretty darn good and gives a great effort overall. He plays a lot like the Cubs former center fielder. I think he is misjudged.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I think Wagner and Baer are both good Offensive rebounders. Cook started to come on at the end of the year. They aren't bad, but nothing that other Big Teams don't have...and some on bench.

Iowa had more of an inside presence this year than I recall them having in the FM era Woody was presence, just not what we all wanted him to be.

Cook scored over 10 PPG primarily in the post. He's not a back to the basket type big. He'll be good.

Pemsl lead the conference in FG % and averaged 9ppg all in the pos Note worthy stats and short shots increase percentage. 9 points are closer to 7.5 on a team that plays better D and doesn't push the ball so much.

Those are two of the best low post threats we've had in a long time. Pemsyl isn't much bigger than White or OSU's Lyle keep in mind. Iowa has a number of 4's not a 5.

Jok isn't really a shot creator IMO. He runs off several screens every possession. He's added some ability to create to his game but that's certainly not his strength. He's a catch and shoot jump shooter by trade.
Actually this ability to create is under appreciated in my opinion.

So you're assertions about this team in this thread:
- Not many shooters (lol!) Not on the court at the same time...Yes that is true.
- No low post threats No traditional post player...True
- No shot creators Pretty much true outside of Jock. Cook is developing.

They scored so many points by:

Pushing ball
Transition

VA held Iowa to the lowest points of any P5 team. Pitt was close, but was held low by a number of teams and I think GT which struggled on O with P5 teams.

Iowa has shown promise as long as they improve. VA, NW, and WI, some of the best D's in the nation did pretty well against Iowa.

Still, in the end we disagree about PJ. I think the guy is pretty darn good and gives a great effort overall. He plays a lot like the Cubs former center fielder. I think he is misjudged.

First of all I never said I don't think Jok is pretty darn good. He is. I just said he's hurt and that's why he's played poorly the last two months.

I don't know if you watched Iowa play this year or not, but Tyler Cook was absolutely a back to the basket big. I didn't expect that to be his game coming in. But that's exactly what he did.

"Pemsl isn't much bigger than White or OSU's Lyle keep in mind."
What?!!? Pemsl is listed at 6'8 250
Lyle 6'5 210.

By the way Pemsl played less than 20 MPG and averaged 9 PPG. Even adjusted for our pace that's pretty good.

Three posts later and I still don't know what your point is. Like I said earlier I basically disagree with almost every thing you say related to basketball and Iowa. I spend half the time wondering if you're trolling and the other half wondering what your point is.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[HawkGold]

First of all I never said I don't think Jok is pretty darn good. He is. I just said he's hurt and that's why he's played poorly the last two months.

I don't know if you watched Iowa play this year or not, but Tyler Cook was absolutely a back to the basket big. I didn't expect that to be his game coming in. But that's exactly what he did.

"Pemsl isn't much bigger than White or OSU's Lyle keep in mind."
What?!!? Pemsl is listed at 6'8 250
Lyle 6'5 210.

By the way Pemsl played less than 20 MPG and averaged 9 PPG. Even adjusted for our pace that's pretty good.

Three posts later and I still don't know what your point is. Like I said earlier I basically disagree with almost every thing you say related to basketball and Iowa. I spend half the time wondering if you're trolling and the other half wondering what your point is.

Let's agree to disagree.

OK, agree to disagree. Cook is not a traditional back to the basket. Just isn't. I've seen Lyle up close and personal in high school. He's not little. OK big difference in weight. Still Pemsyl isn't that tall. I don't think it's a stretch to compare White and Pem physically but not in style. I personally knew a player they were also recruiting for the same scholarship that Pem got.. I don't think Pem is as tall as advertised. He is strong for sure and the weight is different. Anyway Go Hawks.

I'm not sure then what YOUR point is. We seem to agree on the same thing that we are mostly arguing about.

 

[Seth53]

Goodness.

Is Iowa any worse with Jok? Of course not.

Did Iowa play OK with Jok out? Of course. But it was a small sample size.

Pretty easy argument...we're better with Jok both playing and scoring a lot.