Derek Jeter-

[loesshillshawk]

The Baseball Analysts: MLB Payroll Efficiency, 2006-2008

Check that out, money = wins over a period of time. He has played since 1996 on one of the highest paying teams in sports. You put him on the Indians in place of Vizquel at the beginning of his career and honestly I think he is a journeyman. Honestly I just feel he has luck on his side.

I think the play that sums up his whole career is "the flip" against the Athletic's in playoffs. Was it a great play? Yes... but honestly what the hell was he doing cutting off a throw to the catcher on the first base side? That is a first baseman's play, he shouldn't even have been over there. If you watch the replay he is just casually jogging over there, and if the throw is on the line he just ends up in the way of the catcher's field of vision. I have to believe that play was just sheer luck with him being out of position.

The money argument goes nowhere. They play within the parameters of the game. They pay their luxury tax, other teams choose to keep the luxury tax money and not put it on the field. Every owner in baseball is filthy rich and could choose to spend money if they so desired. Hell even the Royals make money boys...lots of it. Can't point the finger at the Yankees they play within the boundaries established and they share the wealth.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

One word how many other shortstops have been a part of 138 post season games (1st in history of MLB), at bats (1st), plate appearances(1st), runs scored(1st), hits(1st), total bases(1st), doubles (2nd), triples (10th), home runs (3rd), RBI's (4th), stolen bases (6th), singles (1st) and most important 7 world series appearances and 5 world championships, say all you want he wins and does it with great class. Never in trouble always says great things about his opponents and supports his teammates. I will cheer for him anytime!

This is mainly just due to him playing in the wild card era. Jeter can possibly play 19 games in a single postseason. Before the wild card era the most you could play was 14 and before that it was just 7 post season games in a single season. The post season stats are skewed because of the increase in post season games. Bernie Williams is also way up there in games, hits and runs, does this mean you would consider him one of the best cf's of all time?

 

[bws258]

I beg to differ on the play against the A's. Here's a write up on the play. If you think he was just lucky on the play, then I don't know what to tell you. He was where he was supposed to be, saw that the throw was awful and made an adjustment. Oh, and he made a perfect throw backhanded and the guy was called out. The clip mentioned in the link does not appear (by the way).

For all of you Derek Jeter fans . . . . The Flip-Play - Yahoo Booters And Yahoo Tools

and, as I said, Jeremy Giambi was safe!

 

[knighthawk13]

Best shortstop ever? really? lol

Zack, you need to be quiet and get back to pitching like last year.

This thread is one of the reason's I love baseball. You poster's who call Jeter mediocre are, well, mediocre when it comes to knowledge of the game. I would bet a large sum of money that Jeter's peers would tell you he's one of the best SS ever to play the game.

 

[Travisam]

Knight. I will guarantee you that I have forgotten more about the game of baseball than you know. You are far beyond your depth in arguing this. For you to challenge people's knowledge of the game is comical.

 

[knighthawk13]

Knight. I will guarantee you that I have forgotten more about the game of baseball than you know. You are far beyond your depth in arguing this. For you to challenge people's knowledge of the game is comical.

Okay, Trav. I was just an all-state SS that played D-1 baseball....but I'll take your word for it.

 

[Travisam]

Awesome. I'm glad for you. Those are great accomplishments. I played some ball in my life too. That doesn't mean anything regarding knowledge of the game. Especially as it relates to the history of the game. That is what we're talking about here. Not whether you, yourself could hit a baseball.

If I told you that Tom Glavine was the best pitcher in ML history, would you question my knowledge of the history of the game? I think you would.

Saying Jeter is the best SS in history is the same.

 

[knighthawk13]

Awesome. I'm glad for you. Those are great accomplishments. I played some ball in my life too. That doesn't mean anything regarding knowledge of the game. Especially as it relates to the history of the game. That is what we're talking about here. Not whether you, yourself could hit a baseball.

If I told you that Tom Glavine was the best pitcher in ML history, would you question my knowledge of the history of the game? I think you would.

Saying Jeter is the best SS in history is the same.

No it's not, but whatever. We aren't going to agree, so might as well drop it.

 

[Travisam]

Fair enough. I could talk/argue baseball for weeks. No offense intended.

 

[TChawk]

Zack, you need to be quiet and get back to pitching like last year.

This thread is one of the reason's I love baseball. You poster's who call Jeter mediocre are, well, mediocre when it comes to knowledge of the game. I would bet a large sum of money that Jeter's peers would tell you he's one of the best SS ever to play the game.

And you people who think he is the best ever to play SS either don't have a clue what you are talking about or are just big old Yankee homers...

I am sure a large part of his peers would not tell anybody that either...because they have a clue.

 

[busabus114]

And you people who think he is the best ever to play SS either don't have a clue what you are talking about or are just big old Yankee homers...

I am sure a large part of his peers would not tell anybody that either...because they have a clue.

This take is hilarious. I dont think Jeter is the best shortstop ever to make a statement like this that implies he isnt even close to being in the conversation is ridiculous.

The people who would imply he isnt even in the conversation dont have a clue what they are talking about or are just big old Yankee haters...

 

[ShadasRevenge]

a liability on the field? you must not watch the yankees play that often, because I would never put Jeter and Liability in the same sentence regarding any of his play, including defensive. some of his keynote plays have been on defense. diving into the stands and cutting up his face to catch the foul ball, running to back up the ball and getting the out at home in the playoffs against the As, I believe. His sigature backhand ground ball grab to jump throw........

name another SS right now who has been starting since '96. Then name one who has been playing better during this time frame. I'll never understand the argument that Jeter is 'overrated' or etc.

That could also mean that the Yankees haven't properly developed - or more likely, have traded away - his replacement.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

I am a huge Yankee fan, I watch EVERY GAME the last 3 years...I mean I tape them and watch them all. He is always talked about for his liability in the field etcetera...Joe Morgan who I really respect says this about Jeter, "If I were to start my own franchise, I would start it with one player, Derek Jeter. He is everything that baseball should be, a competitor that is a class act on and off the field."
He simply gets it done! He is much like hawkeye football, not flashy statistic wise but just wins!

Table for one?

 

[MSGT1]

This take is hilarious. I dont think Jeter is the best shortstop ever to make a statement like this that implies he isnt even close to being in the conversation is ridiculous.

The people who would imply he isnt even in the conversation dont have a clue what they are talking about or are just big old Yankee haters...

How can you be the best ever when you have never been the best, currently playing, at your position in any single season. And that's throwing out everyone that ever played before Jeter came up.

The problem is, he's not in the conversation. He might be in the top 10 ever... if you exclude defense. When you add in defense he falls quite a bit. He has been a bad defensive SS for most of his career. By bad, I mean one of the 5 worst currently playing type of bad. And that's been for most of his career. His offense can't outweigh that, not at probably the second most important defensive position.

If he really was the great leader everyone claims, he should have moved to 3rd or CF when the Yankees got ARod, as he's the best offensive SS ever, and was a top 5 defensive SS (active) when he was in Texas.

When offense AND defense are considered, Jeter MIGHT be in the top 20.

 

[busabus114]

How can you be the best ever when you have never been the best, currently playing, at your position in any single season. And that's throwing out everyone that ever played before Jeter came up.

The problem is, he's not in the conversation. He might be in the top 10 ever... if you exclude defense. When you add in defense he falls quite a bit. He has been a bad defensive SS for most of his career. By bad, I mean one of the 5 worst currently playing type of bad. And that's been for most of his career. His offense can't outweigh that, not at probably the second most important defensive position.

If he really was the great leader everyone claims, he should have moved to 3rd or CF when the Yankees got ARod, as he's the best offensive SS ever, and was a top 5 defensive SS (active) when he was in Texas.

When offense AND defense are considered, Jeter MIGHT be in the top 20.

Really?

That could be one of the dumbest things ive ever read. He was one of the 5 worst defensive shortstops every year he played? Cmon. Jeter has committed 2 errors this season in 178 chances. tied for 36th in most errors committed by a SS this season.

For the Jeter haters apparently amazing offensive numbers, winning and longevity dont mean a thing. He might end up with 3,500 hits yet he barely cracks your top 20?

 

[Travisam]

Really?

That could be one of the dumbest things ive ever read. He was one of the 5 worst defensive shortstops every year he played? Cmon. Jeter has committed 2 errors this season in 178 chances. tied for 36th in most errors committed by a SS this season.

For the Jeter haters apparently amazing offensive numbers, winning and longevity dont mean a thing. He might end up with 3,500 hits yet he barely cracks your top 20?

I think he's top 10 overall. That being said, judging fielding on errors is like judging a pitcher based on wins. Pretty worthless.

 

[busabus114]

I think he's top 10 overall. That being said, judging fielding on errors is like judging a pitcher based on wins. Pretty worthless.

I agree that errors are a flawed stat but i was making a point that the poster who said he was 1) one of the 5 worst defensive SS about every year he's played and 2) he MIGHT be in the top 20 overall are completely ludacris statements

 

[shonblatt]

Jeter has a flair for the dramatic, and plays better when the pressure is on. He owns the playoffs.

He's the sort of player that can't really be measured by those raw stat comparisons, because his overall greatness is larger than the sum of the measured parts.

He's not the greatest SS ever, but there are few guys I'd rather have at the plate if you need a hit or a clutch defensive play in game 7 of the World Series.