Defending Fran's recruiting

[Knight78]

This isn't the NBA.
Most of that is repetition. 6 to 8 hrs a day of repetition. When you get to college, your shot is pretty much what it is. Flawed or not. The muscle mechanics are ingrained. That's not to say little things can't be corrected through a lot of repetition but this isn't the NBA. College players do not have 6 hrs a day to work on their shot. Classes, homework, study time, practice drills, film study, weight training, etc.

Not true at all. Interviews with Jeff Hornacek while he was with the Jazz confirm that he never learned proper shooting technique until he got to the NBA. Looking back at film when he was with ISU confirms it - his shots had a side spin instead of backspin. That's why he was a streaky long-range shooter in college and why he became a consistent long-range shooter in the NBA.

 

[JHHawk]

So far, our best recruits under Fran are Devyn(Lick recruit) and White. They were in his first two classes.
Since then...not so much....Woody and Gabe are decent.

I frosh who lite it up....LaChance of Vandy(they beat us for him) had 26pts on 13 shots in their win over PU this weekend.

Brooks, an 18 yr old frosh for Oregon had 24 vs Illini this weekend. Canadian was unstoppable.

Gatens is our best recruit since SA left.

 

[PCHawk]

So far, our best recruits under Fran are Devyn(Lick recruit) and White. They were in his first two classes.
Since then...not so much....Woody and Gabe are decent.

I frosh who lite it up....LaChance of Vandy(they beat us for him) had 26pts on 13 shots in their win over PU this weekend.

Brooks, an 18 yr old frosh for Oregon had 24 vs Illini this weekend. Canadian was unstoppable.

Gatens is our best recruit since SA left.

You think Gatens was better than Marble?

 

[JHHawk]

You think Gatens was better than Marble?

Close call, but yes. Matt was 2nd in voting for Big Ten Frosh of Year, and was a solid 4 year contributor...and all league his senior season...half of which came under slo-lickball

 

[PCHawk]

Close call, but yes. Matt was 2nd in voting for Big Ten Frosh of Year, and was a solid 4 year contributor...and all league his senior season...half of which came under slo-lickball

Didn't we have someone on the conference freshman team every year under Lick? I would take that reward with a grain of salt. I would give the edge to Marble. He gave a run at big 10 player of the year.

 

[DaBears]

If Ellingson is the future, Iowa bball is in trouble.

 

[lightning1]

Not true at all. Interviews with Jeff Hornacek while he was with the Jazz confirm that he never learned proper shooting technique until he got to the NBA. Looking back at film when he was with ISU confirms it - his shots had a side spin instead of backspin. That's why he was a streaky long-range shooter in college and why he became a consistent long-range shooter in the NBA.

The two go hand in hand. You can teach someone a different shot in college but they don't have the 6 to 8 hrs a day to perfect it. That's why most players shot's get better in the NBA than when they were in college. When you are paid to play basketball, you can devote the time. In college, you can't.

 

[lightning1]

I'll quit arguing if someone can explain to me how a college kid can carve out 6 to 8 hrs a day to work exclusively on his outside shot. Otherwise, just stop quoting or discussing NBA players.

 

[PCHawk]

I'll quit arguing if someone can explain to me how a college kid can carve out 6 to 8 hrs a day to work exclusively on his outside shot. Otherwise, just stop quoting or discussing NBA players.

Roy Williams could probably answer that for you.

 

[Knight78]

The two go hand in hand. You can teach someone a different shot in college but they don't have the 6 to 8 hrs a day to perfect it. That's why most players shot's get better in the NBA than when they were in college. When you are paid to play basketball, you can devote the time. In college, you can't.

Or, in Hornacek's case, he didn't have to shoot much in college. After all when you play with Barry Stevens and Jeff Grayer there aren't a lot of shots necessary for everyone else.

 

[deanvogs]

So far, our best recruits under Fran are Devyn(Lick recruit) and White. They were in his first two classes.
Since then...not so much....Woody and Gabe are decent.

I frosh who lite it up....LaChance of Vandy(they beat us for him) had 26pts on 13 shots in their win over PU this weekend.

Brooks, an 18 yr old frosh for Oregon had 24 vs Illini this weekend. Canadian was unstoppable.

Gatens is our best recruit since SA left.

Spot on about Fran's recruits. Here is they way I see his recruiting so far:

Stars/studs: Devyn & White
Solid: Gesell, Woody, Uthoff
Role players: Clemmons, Olaseni, Jok, McCabe, Basabe, Ogs
Misses: Ingram, Meyers

On top of that, not being able to seal the deal has been killer: Paige, Burke, Ulis, Niang, Riley LaChance, Chasson Randle, E.C Matthews and I'm sure I'm forgetting several others as well.

When you are bringing in more roll players and misses than you are studs and solid players it is hard to get that consistent NCAA team footing. I mean I'm not writing us off this year yet, but the guard play has to improve, or we will be NIT bound yet again. I'm sorry, but in year 5 after making the NCAA last year, being ranked most of the year, slipping back is unacceptable. Sure he had to dig out of the Lick hole, but that was 5 years ago, no more excesses from me anyway for Fran. If Mr. Davis wasn't good enough because he made the tourney every year, but didn't get to the sweet 16 enough, then just hoping that we make the NCAA each year certainly doesn't cut it at all.

 

[PCHawk]

Spot on about Fran's recruits. Here is they way I see his recruiting so far:

Stars/studs: Devyn & White
Solid: Gesell, Woody, Uthoff
Role players: Clemmons, Olaseni, Jok, McCabe, Basabe, Ogs
Misses: Ingram, Meyers

On top of that, not being able to seal the deal has been killer: Paige, Burke, Ulis, Niang, Riley LaChance, Chasson Randle, E.C Matthews and I'm sure I'm forgetting several others as well.

When you are bringing in more roll players and misses than you are studs and solid players it is hard to get that consistent NCAA team footing. I mean I'm not writing us off this year yet, but the guard play has to improve, or we will be NIT bound yet again. I'm sorry, but in year 5 after making the NCAA last year, being ranked most of the year, slipping back is unacceptable. Sure he had to dig out of the Lick hole, but that was 5 years ago, no more excesses from me anyway for Fran. If Mr. Davis wasn't good enough because he made the tourney every year, but didn't get to the sweet 16 enough, then just hoping that we make the NCAA each year certainly doesn't cut it at all.

When I look at that list, I see a coach that knows what he's doing when evaluating players. I think the most important attribute an iowa coach needs to be successful is the ability to spot underrated talent. His number 1 targets could very well start saying yes after we show we are a team capable of competing at a high level. I don't think the recruits that Fran has to go out and sign are the problem. It's the ones that are no brainers and he pretty much "has to" bring in.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

When I look at that list, I see a coach that knows what he's doing when evaluating players. I think the most important attribute an iowa coach needs to be successful is the ability to spot underrated talent. His number 1 targets could very well start saying yes after we show we are a team capable of competing at a high level. I don't think the recruits that Fran has to go out and sign are the problem. It's the ones that are no brainers and he pretty much "has to" bring in.

Agreed. Due to Iowa's general lack of top in-state recruits, I have seen some people say that's why Iowa's coaches need to be great X's and O's guys.. I tend to think the opposite. This is exactly why (IMO) that Iowa needs a coach that really excels in recruiting and finding those diamonds in the rough. Some programs, especially in certain states, tend to recruit themselves, but in Iowa's case, we need a coach that goes above and beyond in recruiting just to offset our inherent disadvantages. Just the way I see it.

Ideally though, you have both coaching AND recruiting. A rare combination, unfortunately. You could have Dean Smith coaching, but if the team was full of players with no more skill and athleticism than I have, it isn't going to matter is it?

Clearly, winning will help recruiting - which is why the flame out at the end of last season kills me so much. A real missed opportunity there. If Iowa finishes the deal and makes the Sweet 16 last year, do some of those guys commit instead of going to ASU, Creighton, Vandy, etc.?

Thing I don't get is that Fran has been getting 4* recruits and good JUCO's/transfers to visit, but for whatever reason, none of them seem to be committing. So it's not like there's a complete lack of interest like there seemed to be under Lick, so I'm not sure if it's a problem with the visits or what.

 

[Robowe]

I'll quit arguing if someone can explain to me how a college kid can carve out 6 to 8 hrs a day to work exclusively on his outside shot. Otherwise, just stop quoting or discussing NBA players.

Summer time.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2014/08/07/arizona-rondae-hollis-jefferson

The first step to correcting a problem is admitting the problem exists, and in this case the comically dismissive defensive scheme was jamming the problem right in the star freshman's face. By the time the season ended, the 6-foot-7 Hollis-Jefferson resolved to fill his summer with drill upon drill aimed at improving his ineffective jumper. That mission became imperative when talented teammates Aaron Gordon and Nick Johnson exited school early for the NBA draft. Hollis-Jefferson showed enough promise in his first season, averaging 9.1 points per game, that he participated in a news conference to announce that he was staying in school. He knows that in order for Arizona to be at the forefront of the national championship hunt in 2014-15, he must become a well-rounded force. And to accomplish that, Hollis-Jefferson knows he must have an outside shot to make him a scoring threat everywhere.

To build upon his new foundation, Hollis-Jefferson crafted a summer routine that revolves around muscle memory and little wasted motion. He generally begins with form shooting. He starts at short range, just in front of the rim. He focuses on keeping his guide hand straight – not too far in the front, not too far in the back, just comfortably on the side. He concentrates on keeping his fingertips spread. He zeroes in on correct hand position, so he can flick his wrist for an easy, one-motion shot. He shoots five times, then steps back, then shoots another five times. And so on, until he's retreated all the way to the NBA three-point line. It is a low-impact but somewhat painstaking series of shots, a process to which Hollis-Jefferson didn't truly dedicate himself until this summer.

 

[silkhawk]

Next years class is crucial for Fran and this program. Dickerson, Jok and Uhl need to develop this year and then hopefully the incoming class can infuse some athleticism and toughness. It'll be Gesell and Woody as seniors so they definitely need some help.

 

[clicheusername3]

Next years class is crucial for Fran and this program. Dickerson, Jok and Uhl need to develop this year and then hopefully the incoming class can infuse some athleticism and toughness. It'll be Gesell and Woody as seniors so they definitely need some help.

Next year is going to be brutal. All of the recruits that are coming don't even equal one Aaron White. Plus the BoneG won't be so down.

 

[Eyedoctim]

Judging by his out of bounds plays, I always thought Fran was a good Xs and Os guy.

OK, because its the internet and all- I can't tell if this is sarcasm or serious?

 

[lightning1]

Summer time.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2014/08/07/arizona-rondae-hollis-jefferson

The first step to correcting a problem is admitting the problem exists, and in this case the comically dismissive defensive scheme was jamming the problem right in the star freshman's face. By the time the season ended, the 6-foot-7 Hollis-Jefferson resolved to fill his summer with drill upon drill aimed at improving his ineffective jumper. That mission became imperative when talented teammates Aaron Gordon and Nick Johnson exited school early for the NBA draft. Hollis-Jefferson showed enough promise in his first season, averaging 9.1 points per game, that he participated in a news conference to announce that he was staying in school. He knows that in order for Arizona to be at the forefront of the national championship hunt in 2014-15, he must become a well-rounded force. And to accomplish that, Hollis-Jefferson knows he must have an outside shot to make him a scoring threat everywhere.

To build upon his new foundation, Hollis-Jefferson crafted a summer routine that revolves around muscle memory and little wasted motion. He generally begins with form shooting. He starts at short range, just in front of the rim. He focuses on keeping his guide hand straight – not too far in the front, not too far in the back, just comfortably on the side. He concentrates on keeping his fingertips spread. He zeroes in on correct hand position, so he can flick his wrist for an easy, one-motion shot. He shoots five times, then steps back, then shoots another five times. And so on, until he's retreated all the way to the NBA three-point line. It is a low-impact but somewhat painstaking series of shots, a process to which Hollis-Jefferson didn't truly dedicate himself until this summer.

Correct but it takes a very driven, mentally tough person to use their summers in that fashion. You show me a college kid that spends 6 to 8 hrs a day working on his shot in the summer and I'll show you an All-BIG performer. Which circles us alllllll the way back to my original assessment. Fran is failing when it comes to recruiting mentally tough Guards. Marble is the only one to date that has shown the mental toughness it takes to be a good D-1 Guard.