Defending Fran's recruiting

[Igothawked]

As one of the posters mentioned above, it hard to watch ISU s philosophy working so well. It is also very hard to watch the likes of Washpun and Bohannon play so well for UNI too.
It's really hard to understand why these Hawks cannot shoot, AT ALL.

 

[tweeterhawk]

So I guess Washpun from just up the road in CR wasn't good enough to play for Fran. Coming off the bench, his stats at VCU tonight:

27 points on 9-14 FGs, incl 1-2 treys, 8-9 FTs, 4 rebs, 3 assists and 3 steals

And Bohannon? 18 points on 5-9 treys plus another bucket.

Anyone think this team could have used a guard who could shoot the past three years?

 

[NEIChawk]

Tweeter, good points....UNI was the hot ticket when these kids were in high school, the UNI team knocking off Kansas in the NCAA's, a good winning atmosphere.....Iowa not so much, Fran, a new coach, trying to turn the tide and get some excitement back, and not having the same luck as Jacobson....My wife and I watched this game and both said that we wished Iowa had some kids from UNI and some kids from VCU....but we don't....until you win and win on a consistent basis, kids will go elsewhere....The other thing I noticed in that game is Tuttle was off and not in the game, so Ben sat him down and stuck w/the kids that were getting it done.....now that's a novel idea...

 

[Lietuva]

So I guess Washpun from just up the road in CR wasn't good enough to play for Fran. Coming off the bench, his stats at VCU tonight:

27 points on 9-14 FGs, incl 1-2 treys, 8-9 FTs, 4 rebs, 3 assists and 3 steals

And Bohannon? 18 points on 5-9 treys plus another bucket.

Anyone think this team could have used a guard who could shoot the past three years?

To be fair, didn't Washpun pick Tenn over Iowa at the start of his career -- and then ended up landing at UNI? When he transferred away from Tenn, I took that to mean that he wasn't a very high D-1 recruit and breathed a sigh of relief that the Hawks weren't "stuck" with him. I misjudged him to an extent. However, I think his game has vastly improved since last year - so I don't know if he would have been an upgrade over MG last year.

 

[hawk2012]

To be fair, didn't Washpun pick Tenn over Iowa at the start of his career -- and then ended up landing at UNI? When he transferred away from Tenn, I took that to mean that he wasn't a very high D-1 recruit and breathed a sigh of relief that the Hawks weren't "stuck" with him. I misjudged him to an extent. However, I think his game has vastly improved since last year - so I don't know if he would have been an upgrade over MG last year.

Iowa offered Washpun but kind of late in the game because we didn't have a ton of scholarships. When Cully indicated he was transferring, we offered. In retrospect, probably should've offered earlier and maybe we would have landed him but hard to blame Fran as he was just arriving at Iowa at the time.

Recruiting is tough. Sometimes you go after bigger fish, and miss out, and then can't land the smaller fish (e.g., Washpun) then end up being pretty damn good. But you can't just go after Washpun types and hope they develop into great players. After all, Iowa plays in the Big Ten, not the MVC, and I don't think UNI recruits athletic enough players to compete year in and year out in the Big Ten. Obviously, every few years, such as this year, they would be competitive.

Iowa has a great class coming in. I think all of the players we signed are ranked higher than Jok, Uhl, or Ellingson. Doesn't mean they will necessarily be better, but the future looks bright. Especially with Pemsl and Connor McCaffrey signed.

 

[volhawk50]

To be fair, didn't Washpun pick Tenn over Iowa at the start of his career -- and then ended up landing at UNI? When he transferred away from Tenn, I took that to mean that he wasn't a very high D-1 recruit and breathed a sigh of relief that the Hawks weren't "stuck" with him. I misjudged him to an extent. However, I think his game has vastly improved since last year - so I don't know if he would have been an upgrade over MG last year.

I don't think he picked UT over Iowa. As I remember it, he picked Missouri State when Cuonzo was still there and then followed Zo to Tennessee. When he was down here, he struggled to get minutes for a mediocre NIT team and at that point, he definitely wasn't prepared to be competitive in the Big Ten. I would say Jacobsen has developed him better than Fran probably would have.

 

[BlacknGold19]

Next years class is what has me willing to give Fran more time. He has improved every year since joining this program. Sure getting blown out by our rivals at home looks terrible in year 5, but ISU played better and they are the better team, that doesn't mean Fran has failed in recruiting. There are athletes coming from Chicago next year in Hutton and Moss that we usually don't see come to Iowa. Fleming looks like a stud who is obviously a winner with his State Titles and being Mr. Basketball in the state of Tennessee. Combine that with Jok and Uhl, Pemsl, Fran's son..there is reason to be patient and believe we will start consistently getting back to the NCAA Tourney every year like the Mr. Davis days.

I'm not pleased with last nights performance, but I'm not throwing Fran or this team under the bus because they lost to 3 really good programs who were all ranked at the time we played them. All is not lost. I'm just glad we are worth watching..the Lickliter days were so miserable to watch as a die hard Iowa fan.

 

[PCHawk]

Serious question here. What do coaches do to develop guards? I can see how they develop post players with footwork and post moves. But guards is so much about natural ability. I feel like it's comparable to developing a runningback in football. That position is mostly about natural ability. Is Washpun really a better scorer because his coach developed his shooting?

 

[PCHawk]

Next years class is what has me willing to give Fran more time. He has improved every year since joining this program. Sure getting blown out by our rivals at home looks terrible in year 5, but ISU played better and they are the better team, that doesn't mean Fran has failed in recruiting. There are athletes coming from Chicago next year in Hutton and Moss that we usually don't see come to Iowa. Fleming looks like a stud who is obviously a winner with his State Titles and being Mr. Basketball in the state of Tennessee. Combine that with Jok and Uhl, Pemsl, Fran's son..there is reason to be patient and believe we will start consistently getting back to the NCAA Tourney every year like the Mr. Davis days.

I'm not pleased with last nights performance, but I'm not throwing Fran or this team under the bus because they lost to 3 really good programs who were all ranked at the time we played them. All is not lost. I'm just glad we are worth watching..the Lickliter days were so miserable to watch as a die hard Iowa fan.

When you have to dig a program out of a hole as deep as the one iowa was in, the only way for it to take less time than it has is for everything to go perfect. It has gone far from perfect with Fran.

Here is what happens if things went perfect for Fran. Oglesby is the lights out 3 point shooter he was supposed to be. Gesell doesn't fall apart the last 10 games of last season. The team continues to roll and ends the season in the top 10. Kentucky doesn't have to go to their 3rd fallback recruit for the first time in history and we sign Ulis. This year with Ulis running point, Gesell backing him, and our can't miss 3 point shooter, we are sitting undefeated right now talking about how Fran is the greatest thing to happen to iowa since corn.

Those handful of things can't be the difference between Fran being an awesome coach and Fran being a terrible coach. That is why I'm nowhere near giving up on Fran. You just can't have that many uncontrollable things go against you without seeing some setbacks.

 

[Lietuva]

I don't think he picked UT over Iowa. As I remember it, he picked Missouri State when Cuonzo was still there and then followed Zo to Tennessee. When he was down here, he struggled to get minutes for a mediocre NIT team and at that point, he definitely wasn't prepared to be competitive in the Big Ten. I would say Jacobsen has developed him better than Fran probably would have.

Yeah - thanks for refreshing my memory. I was too lazy to go back and look at his recruitment. But, again, I think all of us would have taken MG over Washpun coming out of HS. As we look at this year alone, it appears that Wes is having a better season - BUT, we still have a lot of season left & there have been flashes of good guard play from MG - let's only hope that it's more consistent.

 

[drew003]

I don't think we can consistently win at the level we are recruiting. Our only Top 150 recruits are Iowans. Gessel, JO, and Uthoff were more 100 to 150 guys.

We haven't landed a meaningful out of state recruit on this team. The 2014 class was a fail. We had to land better players than Dickerson and Ellenson, and carrying over a scholarship.

This next class is interesting. There is more athleticism, but still not many highly recruited kids. We can't keep expecting to beat good teams with players other teams did not want. And we can't be so dependent on the state of iowa as our scource for good recruits.

People complain about lack of shooters, but in my view it is lack of dribble drive threats at the wing positions. This team has no legitimate Big 10 wing. We have no player that threatens teams off the dribble. And we have no player that can create his own shot from the perimeter. Those are not skills you coach. Those are skills you recruit and Fran simply hasn't recruited players with those skills.

 

[volhawk50]

When you have to dig a program out of a hole as deep as the one iowa was in, the only way for it to take less time than it has is for everything to go perfect. It has gone far from perfect with Fran.

Here is what happens if things went perfect for Fran. Oglesby is the lights out 3 point shooter he was supposed to be. Gesell doesn't fall apart the last 10 games of last season. The team continues to roll and ends the season in the top 10. Kentucky doesn't have to go to their 3rd fallback recruit for the first time in history and we sign Ulis. This year with Ulis running point, Gesell backing him, and our can't miss 3 point shooter, we are sitting undefeated right now talking about how Fran is the greatest thing to happen to iowa since corn.

Those handful of things can't be the difference between Fran being an awesome coach and Fran being a terrible coach. That is why I'm nowhere near giving up on Fran. You just can't have that many uncontrollable things go against you without seeing some setbacks.

I agree with this. Fran has landed some highly ranked recruits who haven't quite lived up to their rankings, and he's been in on some highly ranked recruits that went elsewhere. Maybe you can call that not quite getting it done, but you definitely can't call that terrible recruiting. I would define terrible recruiting as creating bad relationships with good players. Lickliter seemingly did some of this, and I've heard Derek Dooley burned a lot of bridges with the best in-state recruits when he coached Tennessee football. Those guys are terrible coaches in part due to terrible recruiting, and Fran is nowhere near their level.

 

[eveningnewsteam]

You have to take some chances on some borderline character kids and roll the dice. Iowa has choir boys up and down the lineup, no grit. They need some beer drinkers and fighters.

 

[RocknRollface]

Serious question here. What do coaches do to develop guards? I can see how they develop post players with footwork and post moves. But guards is so much about natural ability. I feel like it's comparable to developing a runningback in football. That position is mostly about natural ability. Is Washpun really a better scorer because his coach developed his shooting?

It depends on the player but You can do allot IMO to develop guards.

Shooting, ball handling and passing can be improved sometimes significantly.

You can add new aspects to a players game if they are willing to put the time in.

you can also do allot to develop their understanding of the game if they are willing to learn.

 

[PCHawk]

It depends on the player but You can do allot IMO to develop guards.

Shooting, ball handling and passing can be improved sometimes significantly.

You can add new aspects to a players game if they are willing to put the time in.

you can also do allot to develop their understanding of the game if they are willing to learn.

I just don't think shooting, ball handling, and passing are things you coach up. How do you teach someone to be a better passer? Or dribble better? I feel like those are things you improve by being a gym rat. I do agree you can teach them to better understand the game which would help with assists and offensive flow but would it really help you score much?

 

[RocknRollface]

I just don't think shooting, ball handling, and passing are things you coach up. How do you teach someone to be a better passer? Or dribble better? I feel like those are things you improve by being a gym rat. I do agree you can teach them to better understand the game which would help with assists and offensive flow but would it really help you score much?

Well you teach it by repeating drills thousands of times. Yes it is on the player to do allot of it on their own time but you can show them what to practice, stress the importance of it and help make it happen.

It's pretty similar to working on post moves IMO.

Obviously allot of skill/talent and especially instinct is natural and some players will improve more than others but my point is there are things you can do with guards to help them improve.

 

[Tierney]

Well you teach it by repeating drills thousands of times. Yes it is on the player to do allot of it on their own time but you can show them what to practice, stress the importance of it and help make it happen.

It's pretty similar to working on post moves IMO.

Obviously allot of skill/talent and especially instinct is natural and some players will improve more than others but my point is there are things you can do with guards to help them improve.

I read where Fran is going to watch Ryan Kriener on Thursday.

 

[Tierney]

The reason I give him a free pass on those 2 is because it's their shooting that is the reason they haven't worked out. He couldn't have forseen they would shoot so bad nor can he coach them into making shots.

Its pretty strange that Washpun has turned out to be such a great shooter. He couldn't hit anything in high school. I think coaching has something to do with it, but you never know how a player is going to develop. Athletically, everyone knew Washpun was a high division one player.

 

[jacknicholson]

Woke up early:

Perspective.....


It was a bloody disaster, perhaps worse than the Michigan State Thugfest a while ago. When all is said and done we added another loss to our record. We were not ready for them. Perhaps overconfident after the NC win. We fought back and came close to closing it to ten points, which would make the loss less painful. The stats show a different game than I saw. We had more offensive rebounds than they did. Watching the game it didn't appear that way.

They killed us in transition, having players open beyond the arc and under the basket. They completely took our transition game away. We lost by 15, although it was worse than the final score.....


However it is just one game in the season. We have lost to three ranked teams. Iowa State could make the final four this year despite their lack of height. They have two of their best players becoming eligible. Thank the Lord they didn't have them Friday night. The are legitimate. Their only blemish is a nasty lack of class by some players.....


We need to spread the floor and pass the ball quicker and more frequently. We will remember this game for certain. We must stick like velcro to the snipers, denying them the ball and playing them tight when they have the ball. Not many teams are going to survive 12 three pointers.....


The players were as shocked as I was during that 8 minute run starting the second half.....


We are much better than that and are a good team who will get better as the season goes on.....


Michigan has lost four games, two to ranked teams, including Saturday's Slaughter at Arizona, 80-53.....


Even though we lost at home, it was nothing like that.....


Mike G had a good game with 9 points and 7 assists. Dom is getting better, Aaron had 18 hard earned points and 6 rebounds, Jaryd played good D getting a few blocks. Even the maligned Josh O hit two.....


We will survive this extremely embarrassing loss. I tried to watch the recording and couldn't stand it.....


Fran and the team will learn from this severe beating and will not be subject to another beating like this one. It hurts much more because it is Iowa State, beating us at home in basketball and football, two games I had marked as wins before the season. It has become a clique that we are the clones Super Bowl, but it appears to be true. They get skyhigh playing us. It is a tear in the fabric of the Universe. It must and will end sometime, might be a while in basketball though. Have to hand it to Fred, reminds me of the Oakland Raiders under John Madden who took the talented outcasts from every team that banished them and turned them into winners. Not an easy task for anyone.....


I woke up screaming. covered with sweat, blood dripping from my ears, nose and eyes from the nightmares, watching three after three falling for the clones. Woke the neighbors up, two of them came over with shotguns thinking I was being robbed and beaten by thugs.....


We have to spread the floor and pass the ball quickly to keep the opponent off balance. Dribbling around for 15/20 seconds. then attempting to get a good shot is not working. Always wonder how most of the other teams get wide open threes all the time. Of course, we must hit an open shot when we get one. Peter Jok is starting to assert himself much more and could be a rising star. He is more active on D. Brady should get more time off the bench. He comes in ready to shoot and could be one of the pieces of the puzzle put in place....

One thing that has always bothered me is having Uthoff, Jok and even Josh open on the wing, waiting for a pass that never comes. The ball usually is passed to the other side or the PG dribbles away from the open player, waiting in his sweet spot. After that the D covers the open shooter and we have to work for a good shot.....


Long season ahead and lots of thrills ahead. Glad this game is behind us and am glad I am not a Michigan fanatic. Remember we beat them by 20 points last season and they came within a whisker from making the final four, losing to a last second shot by Kentucky.....


The Lads need our support. Fran can coach, however he cannot lead a fast break tossing alley oops in the air or nail a three himself. The team has to step up and show their Hawkeye Pride. There is a lot of talent on this team, and when they are clicking they will be hard to beat.....


We are a long way from Kentucky as far as recruiting is concerned, and at this point in time, a National Championship in football and basketball is far beyond our reach.....


The quagmire that Lick stuck us in was worse than I thought. Iowa was considered a quality team for years with an occasional off year, the year after Marble, Horton and BJ graduated, we were terrible. However Mr. Davis always brought us back. Even Alford had some very good teams, the three years we had Horner, Brunner, Huluska and Doug Thomas were the nucleus of very good teams, with Pierre we could have gone far. Too bad he was out of control. Hard to believe Alford didn't know he was driving to DM after practice most nights. Nobody wanted to play for the Hawks the year after Lick. Carver less than half full, nobody I knew watched the games, Nobody, people I had watched every game with over the years, gave up. All things considered, Fran has brought us back, having the national writers and TV experts talking.....

Wouldn't want to hear what they are saying about the clone mess though.....

What a difference beating NC at Chapel Hill, then losing badly to the clones at Carver.....

We have the rest of the season to forget that blemish on a season that is still promising.....

 

[hawkforlife9]

Not really.

Fran didn't come in and run players off...he started from the ground up. I like what he has done no need to defend what he has done. He has taken iowa from a laughingstock to the NCAA tournament.