Couple of nagging questions?

[trj]

Fair points, but I think offense and defense have different nature's. Shooting is going to run hot and cold and most teams rarely shoot the same FG% game after game. It averages out.
Like a golfer who can't hit his greens in regulation and has to grind to save par, some nights the offense is going to have to grind to get it's shots/points.

Defense is different. It is based more on intelligence, attitude and effort. Once a defensive team establishes a normal for field goal %, they don't deviate from it as much as offense does from theirs. Playing up tempo and giving the other team eighty possessions per game, rather than sixty, is absolutely no excuse for the defense on those extra twenty possessions to be played with any less effort or intensity. If you can play D you can play D, regardless of tempo. If you can't, you can't.

I think the Michigan game in the BIG tournament was a perfect example. Michigan left their perimeter shooting in their gym bags. But played enough consistent defense to carry the day.

That’s my point. Those extra 20 possessions you can play smart defense, give max effort and still give up buckets. Instead of a game being in the 60’s it is in the 70’s. It doesn’t always mean you were poor on the defensive end.

 

[lightning1]

That’s my point. Those extra 20 possessions you can play smart defense, give max effort and still give up buckets. Instead of a game being in the 60’s it is in the 70’s. It doesn’t always mean you were poor on the defensive end.

It only means you are poor on the defensive end, if you can't get stops at the end of games. Fran's team's have never been able to get stops at the end of games. Look at his record in close games, here at Iowa. He's lost way more than he has won.

 

[Northside Hawk]

That’s my point. Those extra 20 possessions you can play smart defense, give max effort and still give up buckets. Instead of a game being in the 60’s it is in the 70’s. It doesn’t always mean you were poor on the defensive end.

But you don't want to give up too many buckets and use tempos/possessions as an excuse. That's like saying an offense that plays up tempo with more possessions has a license to turn the ball over more often. No they don't. Smart guards will not, regardless of tempo. Good defensive teams should not have off nights, regardless of tempo. They do, but that's what ages coaches. Lack of consistent defense ages them too.

You hear in baseball all the time. "I will accept the strikeouts in favor of more power". When the Cubs slump, it's because they're falling behind in the count and everyone is trying to hit the video board and they're swinging at sliders in the dirt. When they're going well, they're taking walks, keeping the line moving, laying off the junk, and forcing the pitcher to throw strikes. That's when the homers come. And you don't have to strike out a lot to hit them if you're forcing the pitcher to throw strikes.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

But you don't want to give up too many buckets and use tempos/possessions as an excuse. That's like saying an offense that plays up tempo with more possessions has a license to turn the ball over more often. No they don't. Smart guards will not, regardless of tempo. Good defensive teams should not have off nights, regardless of tempo. They do, but that's what ages coaches. Lack of consistent defense ages them too.

You hear in baseball all the time. "I will accept the strikeouts in favor of more power". When the Cubs slump, it's because they're falling behind in the count and everyone is trying to hit the video board and they're swinging at sliders in the dirt. When they're going well, they're taking walks, keeping the line moving, laying off the junk, and forcing the pitcher to throw strikes. That's when the homers come. And you don't have to strike out a lot to hit them if you're forcing the pitcher to throw strikes.

I think this is the point Fran was making in his podcast interview with Rob. We played better defense in '16 than '17 with essentially the same team because there were more breakdowns in '17 and less of a commitment in '17. To a guy that coaches the team, he sees it plain as day. The average fan may not because we only see giving up 78 points and going 14-19, in stead of giving up 78 points and going 19-15, or whatever our '16 record was.

 

[trj]

And yet Fran has only managed to get to 3 NCAA tournaments. And once he played teams that played good defense, he got beat down.

Iowa has been hot garbage on defense the last 2 years there is no way around that. I am not advocating it I think Fran thinks in terms of analytics. Just my opinion.

 

[lightning1]

In the 2015-16 season (22-11, 3rd in the Big ten conf), we were 4-8 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2014-15 season we were 2 - 4 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2013-14 season we were 2 - 8 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2012-13 season we were 2 - 7 in games decided by 6 points or less.
These are Fran's best statistical defensive seasons since he's been here at Iowa. That's a collective total of..
10 - 27 in close games ( 6 or less). That's hot garbage!!! I didn't have the heart to look at his other 4 seasons but I'm sure it's more of the same.

 

[trj]

It only means you are poor on the defensive end, if you can't get stops at the end of games. Fran's team's have never been able to get stops at the end of games. Look at his record in close games, here at Iowa. He's lost way more than he has won.

The flip side of that is JBO/Gesell were often put in bad spots on the offensive end late in games. How often have we seen those guys dribbling around the top of the key, with a chance to win or tie and no where to go with the basketball? That’s an offensive problem not a defensive one.

Yeah, you need defensive stops, but you need kids who aren’t afraid of the moment . A guy who will demand the basketball late in games. A guy that will go get the basketball if your point guard is on a island by himself with no where to go with it.

 

[trj]

But you don't want to give up too many buckets and use tempos/possessions as an excuse. That's like saying an offense that plays up tempo with more possessions has a license to turn the ball over more often. No they don't. Smart guards will not, regardless of tempo. Good defensive teams should not have off nights, regardless of tempo. They do, but that's what ages coaches. Lack of consistent defense ages them too.

You hear in baseball all the time. "I will accept the strikeouts in favor of more power". When the Cubs slump, it's because they're falling behind in the count and everyone is trying to hit the video board and they're swinging at sliders in the dirt. When they're going well, they're taking walks, keeping the line moving, laying off the junk, and forcing the pitcher to throw strikes. That's when the homers come. And you don't have to strike out a lot to hit them if you're forcing the pitcher to throw strikes.

Your 1st paragraph basically explained the Houston Rockets and the Golden St. Warriors. They turn the ball over a ton and they don’t care. It’s all analytics, that’s what the numbers dictate.

Those extra 20 possessions you are expecting Iowa to get 20 stops? That’s not realistic. When you want to get out in transition(which Iowa does) you give up quick shots on the other end. Fran doesn’t want to play a half court game . I would love it if Iowa could adapt to any style you wanted play, but they can’t. Just like 90% of the teams in the tournament. There’s a reason why Villanova/Michigan ended up in the final game it is because they can play anyway you want. Villanova just had more horses.

 

[trj]

In the 2015-16 season (22-11, 3rd in the Big ten conf), we were 4-8 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2014-15 season we were 2 - 4 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2013-14 season we were 2 - 8 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2012-13 season we were 2 - 7 in games decided by 6 points or less.
These are Fran's best statistical defensive seasons since he's been here at Iowa. That's a collective total of..
10 - 27 in close games ( 6 or less). That's hot garbage!!! I didn't have the heart to look at his other 4 seasons but I'm sure it's more of the same.

If they were 19-18 in those close games we are not even having this discussion. Uthoff wasn’t an alpha dog and he didn’t want the ball late in games, if he was, that 10-27 record is different. If Bohannon had somewhere to go with the basketball late in those games that record is different . That’s recruiting, that’s executing late in games. That’s not defense.

 

[Tierney]

Coaching is important late in games, but I think talent is equally important.

 

[earlkoppelman]

How did we have what appeared to be a much less effective defense last year after losing only Jok who wasn't known for his defensive abilities?

How can this team move from near the bottom of the Big Ten to even a first division finish in the conference next year? We not only lost a lot of games but quite a few were real ugly. Weiskamp is a good recruit but probably not the difference. Are the players we had this past year going to make the kind of jump necessary?

Just thought some of you might have some insightful answers

Team will have to be on same PAGE.After CW talk "Sideways" occured.Starts with Coach and staff.Look forward to all together.

 

[DDThompson]

That’s my point. Those extra 20 possessions you can play smart defense, give max effort and still give up buckets. Instead of a game being in the 60’s it is in the 70’s. It doesn’t always mean you were poor on the defensive end.

yes. Example:
KenPom’s efficiency rating of Iowa’s defense in 2015 and 2016 was in the 30s both seasons.

 

[DDThompson]

In the 2015-16 season (22-11, 3rd in the Big ten conf), we were 4-8 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2014-15 season we were 2 - 4 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2013-14 season we were 2 - 8 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2012-13 season we were 2 - 7 in games decided by 6 points or less.
These are Fran's best statistical defensive seasons since he's been here at Iowa. That's a collective total of..
10 - 27 in close games ( 6 or less). That's hot garbage!!! I didn't have the heart to look at his other 4 seasons but I'm sure it's more of the same.

Those are horrible stats.

And the stats do not point to the conclusion that 27 close losses are due to bad defense.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Your 1st paragraph basically explained the Houston Rockets and the Golden St. Warriors. They turn the ball over a ton and they don’t care. It’s all analytics, that’s what the numbers dictate.

Those extra 20 possessions you are expecting Iowa to get 20 stops? That’s not realistic. When you want to get out in transition(which Iowa does) you give up quick shots on the other end. Fran doesn’t want to play a half court game . I would love it if Iowa could adapt to any style you wanted play, but they can’t. Just like 90% of the teams in the tournament. There’s a reason why Villanova/Michigan ended up in the final game it is because they can play anyway you want. Villanova just had more horses.

Some valid points, especially the last one. My point once again is that tempo is not an excuse for reduced defense . Maybe a higher score, but not reduced defense. If you can hold a team to, say, 35% over sixty possessions there's no reason to do worse on the extra twenty just because tempo is quicker. Obviously, they're going to score on some of those extra twenty. But they better not go from 35 to 70% just because tempo is quicker.

Houston and Golden State better not be excessively careless with the ball this time of the year. Or they will unexpectedly watching someone else take on Boston or Toronto. (No way is it going to be the LeBrons, unless they've been going through the motions for six months. I love Philadelphia's young talent, but they may be a year away. Milwaukee's defense can betray them at inopportune times, too)

 

[lightning1]

If they were 19-18 in those close games we are not even having this discussion. Uthoff wasn’t an alpha dog and he didn’t want the ball late in games, if he was, that 10-27 record is different. If Bohannon had somewhere to go with the basketball late in those games that record is different . That’s recruiting, that’s executing late in games. That’s not defense.

It's. Not. About. Offense.
Did you learn NOTHING from this past season?

 

[lightning1]

Those are horrible stats.

And the stats do not point to the conclusion that 27 close losses are due to bad defense.

Whatever.

 

[Northside Hawk]

In the 2015-16 season (22-11, 3rd in the Big ten conf), we were 4-8 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2014-15 season we were 2 - 4 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2013-14 season we were 2 - 8 in games decided by 6 points or less.
in the 2012-13 season we were 2 - 7 in games decided by 6 points or less.
These are Fran's best statistical defensive seasons since he's been here at Iowa. That's a collective total of..
10 - 27 in close games ( 6 or less). That's hot garbage!!! I didn't have the heart to look at his other 4 seasons but I'm sure it's more of the same.

I wonder what our free throw percentage was in the last two minutes of those games. I remember Gesell at Hilton, the "shaking floor" game. The "TV Teddy" game vs MSU in the BTT one year.

I'll bet it's not much prettier than our defense in those pressure situations.

 

[DDThompson]

Whatever.

I agree. Whatever.

 

[lightning1]

I agree. Whatever.

You didn't learn anything from this season either. JFC. I had you on ignore for a good reason. Now I remember why.

 

[trj]

It's. Not. About. Offense.

Uthoff could get his own shot,also. Jok wasn’t the perfect leader, but he wasn’t afraid of the moment either. Uthoff didn’t want the ball late, Jok did.

Obviously, the defense has to get better, but I think you’re looking at it just one way . As I stated before, executing better on offense late in games is just as important as getting stops.