Conference Title in Basketball Overrated

[deanvogs]

I know it has been a long time since Iowa has won the B1G, and some on here act like if you don't win the B1G then you aren't doing anything. I would argue different, so I guess my question is would Virginia's season satisfy those who want a conference title desperately? I say that season would suck. Winning the regular season conference title, winning the conference tournament but getting bounced in round 1 is a historic fail of a season if you ask me. I'd much prefer finishing 5th in the conference, and going to the sweet 16.

 

[lightning1]

I know it has been a long time since Iowa has won the B1G, and some on here act like if you don't win the B1G then you aren't doing anything. I would argue different, so I guess my question is would Virginia's season satisfy those who want a conference title desperately? I say that season would suck. Winning the regular season conference title, winning the conference tournament but getting bounced in round 1 is a historic fail of a season if you ask me. I'd much prefer finishing 5th in the conference, and going to the sweet 16.

Great seasons are always diminished by bad losses that end the season. 2005-06 Alfrauds loss to NW St. KF's Rose Bowl beat down at the hands of Stanford.
I'm really surprised that YOU think the 2015 Iowa football team is a "historic fail". But I'll be sure to remember you said it.

 

[deanvogs]

Great seasons are always diminished by bad losses that end the season. 2005-06 Alfrauds loss to NW St. KF's Rose Bowl beat down at the hands of Stanford.
I'm really surprised that YOU think the 2015 Iowa football team is a "historic fail". But I'll be sure to remember you said it.

Bowl games don't equal NCAA tournament. One defines your season (NCAA tournament) and one is meaningless for the most part (Bowl games)

 

[lightning1]

Bowl games don't equal NCAA tournament. One defines your season (NCAA tournament) and one is meaningless for the most part (Bowl games)

Ah. Dean says "the Rose Bowl is meaningless". Awesome.
I wouldn't consider Bruner, Haluska and Horner to have completely and historically failed as seniors.

 

[deanvogs]

Ah. Dean says "the Rose Bowl is meaningless". Awesome.
I wouldn't consider Bruner, Haluska and Horner to have completely and historically failed as seniors.

It is pretty meaningless in the scheme of things. Hayden isn't defined by his Rose Bowl ass kickings. It would have been nice to beat Stanford, but it doesn't even come close to ruining a season like Virginia's loss would have.

 

[deanvogs]

Ah. Dean says "the Rose Bowl is meaningless". Awesome.
I wouldn't consider Bruner, Haluska and Horner to have completely and historically failed as seniors.

Instead of deflecting, why not address the point. Winning a conference in basketball just doesn't carry much importance any longer. Nobody is going to give two shits that Virginia won and incredibly tough ACC this year because they got bounced in the first round. It is what it is.

 

[lightning1]

It is pretty meaningless in the scheme of things. Hayden isn't defined by his Rose Bowl ass kickings. It would have been nice to beat Stanford, but it doesn't even come close to ruining a season like Virginia's loss would have.

It certainly doesn't render their ACC title meaningless. It takes a shine off the season, that's for sure.

 

[trj]

Where have you been? It has been like that for years what you do in March trumps(save the jokes) everything.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I think Dean's point is--if one looks beyond the personal animosity and nit-picky crap--is that in basketball, given that anywhere from four to 10 P5 teams in one conference make the tourney, regular season titles mean less than they do in football (although recent CFP could be approaching that category).

Take Virginia from the ACC. They're out, while Syracuse, who many said shouldn't even have mad the tournament, is in. Whose fans are happier right now? Or the Pac 12, who has all their teams eliminated. Think many fans will be excited about the regular season or tourney title banner-hanging?

 

[lightning1]

Instead of deflecting, why not address the point. Winning a conference in basketball just doesn't carry much importance any longer. Nobody is going to give two shits that Virginia won and incredibly tough ACC this year because they got bounced in the first round. It is what it is.

I disagree. Virginia fans will remember the ACC title. We might not. Just like we remember that 2005-06 team fondly, in spite of the 1st round loss to NW St. They only won the BTT but I remember it well. If you don't think a conference title is important, that's your opinion.

 

[deanvogs]

I think Dean's point is--if one looks beyond the personal animosity and nit-picky crap--is that in basketball, given that anywhere from four to 10 P5 teams in one conference make the tourney, regular season titles mean less than they do in football (although recent CFP could be approaching that category).

Take Virginia from the ACC. They're out, while Syracuse, who many said shouldn't even have mad the tournament, is in. Whose fans are happier right now? Or the Pac 12, who has all their teams eliminated. Think many fans will be excited about the regular season or tourney title banner-hanging?

I actually didn't even bring football into the conversation, @lightning1 one did. I'm not sure why he did, but it seems he wanted to deflect rather than discuss.

I just really don't give two shits about a conference BB title. I mean honestly if we went 15-3 one year and won a title and 15-3 one year and came in second, who cares? I mean with an unbalanced schedule, and all the other factors, I'd much, much, much rather go deep into the NCAA tournament than I would win a conference title and get bounced early.

@lightning1 does have a point about Virginia though, their fans will always remember that season. 17 wins in the ACC, enjoying all those games, etc. While losing in the 1st round is gonna be a sting that will last a lifetime, the season no doubt was an enjoyable one for Virginia fans.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I follow your logic about the conference titles in basketball. Duke hasn't won a conference title since 2010 but they have won a national championship since then.

About the bowl games I disagree, especially the rose bowl. People absolutely remember the beatdown Iowa took in the Rose Bowl game, they probably don’t remember our 12-0 start that year (outside of Iowa fans).

 

[deanvogs]

I disagree. Virginia fans will remember the ACC title. We might not. Just like we remember that 2005-06 team fondly, in spite of the 1st round loss to NW St. They only won the BTT but I remember it well. If you don't think a conference title is important, that's your opinion.

Don't get me wrong, a conference title would be nice. I would just rather have other accomplishments over it, that is for sure. Lets just say you have these two options, which would you pick?

1) Win a conference title, get to the sweet 16 and lose
2) Don't win the conference, get to the Elite 8 or Final 4?

I'd value 1 extra win in the NCAA tournament over a conference title.

 

[deanvogs]

I follow your logic about the conference titles in basketball. Duke hasn't won a conference title since 2010 but they have won a national championship since then.

About the bowl games I disagree, especially the rose bowl. People absolutely remember the beatdown Iowa took in the Rose Bowl game, they probably don’t remember our 12-0 start that year (outside of Iowa fans).

Why is this turning into a football thing? People outside of Iowa don't care if Iowa gets beat down in the Rose Bowl. Teams get bad beats all the time in football in bowl games, Bama, OU, all of them, it happens all the time.

 

[deanvogs]

I follow your logic about the conference titles in basketball. Duke hasn't won a conference title since 2010 but they have won a national championship since then.

About the bowl games I disagree, especially the rose bowl. People absolutely remember the beatdown Iowa took in the Rose Bowl game, they probably don’t remember our 12-0 start that year (outside of Iowa fans).

This is EXACTLY my point. Unbalanced schedules really make it tough to say that one 15-3 team is undisputedly better than a even 13-5 team. Nebraska just won 13 B1G games and got NOTHING for it if you ask me.

 

[Northside Hawk]

There was a time when you practically HAD to win your league just to get into the dance. That hurt Lute during the Sky King years. Some of those teams could have made at large tourney runs. We'll never know

The look on the faces of those Virginia players are they realized their fate was unforgettable. They looked like they had been in the dentist chair breathing nitrous oxide for the last two hours. The stigma of being the first, in a negative way, can never be taken away from them. It's there for life.

Lightning and others discussed this in another thread. Perhaps it's time for Bennett to overhaul his philosophy a little bit.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Why is this turning into a football thing? People outside of Iowa don't care if Iowa gets beat down in the Rose Bowl. Teams get bad beats all the time in football in bowl games, Bama, OU, all of them, it happens all the time.

I live outside of Iowa and I’ve talked to people. They absolutely remember the historic beatdown we took in the Rose Bowl. It validated their opinion that Iowa was a pretender that year.

But back to hoops. Look at Tom Crean at IU. He won two conference titles and got canned.

 

[deanvogs]

I live outside of Iowa and I’ve talked to people. They absolutely remember the historic beatdown we took in the Rose Bowl. It validated their opinion that Iowa was a pretender that year.

But back to hoops. Look at Tom Crean at IU. He won two conference titles and got canned.

LOL, so you have anecdotal evidence from what 5 people? So did MSU's conference title even count in 2015 then, as they got destroyed in the playoffs. OSU has gotten destroyed in the playoffs. OU has gotten housed 40-8, and 37-11 in the playoffs. Were all those teams "pretenders" as well?

It is like people don't even watch or understand football on this board. Teams get housed all the time, even in the playoffs, and even more so in Bowl games, that don't mean crap really. Iowa beating BC was nice this year, but it meant nothing really, just like Fry getting housed in the Rose Bowl several times doesn't mean much.

 

[lightning1]

Don't get me wrong, a conference title would be nice. I would just rather have other accomplishments over it, that is for sure. Lets just say you have these two options, which would you pick?

1) Win a conference title, get to the sweet 16 and lose
2) Don't win the conference, get to the Elite 8 or Final 4?

I'd value 1 extra win in the NCAA tournament over a conference title.

If you don't have a coach capable of winning a conference title, you don't have a coach capable of winning a National Title.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Even today, different coaches handle bowls differently (Unless you're in the four, soon to be eight team playoff). Some treat it as a reward for the team, some treat it like the Bataan Death March.

Mike White treated Illinois' 1983 trip to the Rose Bowl like it was a three week frat party. They left for California around the tenth of December, partied like it was 1999, and got thoroughly dismantled by UCLA in the Rose Bowl. Penn State did the same in 1985 with a NC on the line and Oklahoma pantsed them pretty good.

Alvarez always took bowl preparations seriously. He made it clear that Wisconsin was there to win every competition in sight, including the inocuous ones that the bowl officials had leading up to the game. He won three Rose Bowls, not bad.

Hayden was somewhere in between, but learned over the years, especially after the "bubble" was built to get as much as possible done at home and not leave too soon. Kirk is probably the same way.

Two famous coaches who were notorious for having poor bowl records were Bear Bryant and Bo Schembechler. Bobby Bowden and Barry Switzer were two of the best.