Common Sense Question For Staff on Martin

[hawkdrummer1]

I don't disagree with you necessarily, and I am definitely not a Ferentz apologist, but in the case of an Epenesa, Goodson, etc., we have proof of those guys being impact players and we know they can cut the mustard. Martin hasn't been on the field anywhere near enough to make that judgement. People saying he's so talented are basing it on Harbaugh listing him on a depth chart at them beginning of the year.

Now if someone had a bunch of practice film showing something different or if he had played a couple of big games, I'd 100% be open to saying he should be out there in place of Tracy or Ragaini or whoever. But there's nothing there to show us that.

Don't know about this one, I'm not at practice either. But the larger point stands as firmly as ever.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Star rating means a lot. I mean.... look at how high TJ Hockenson was rated. He was a 5 sta.... wait, 4 star.... nope 3 star (and just barely a 3 star). I guess the coaches knew something there.

So let's go to another guy because TJ was the exception; let's look at another great player. George Kittle was a 5 sta.... no, he was a 4 star.... nope - 3 star (and even lower recruit rating than TJ). I guess the coaching staff knew something there. He was plagued by injuries during college.

OK, another guy. Alan Reisner was a 2-star (.7222) and had a 4 year NFL career (meaning he is fully vested).

I could keep going. There are a TON of guys who were rated low that the Iowa coaching staff got to the NFL. Your hate of Coach Ferentz is blinding you to what he has done that is positive.

I have this argument with people on here all the time, you know ones who downplay the meaning of national rankings because clueless media people vote in them, while these same posters put all the stock in the world in star ratings.

The example I recently used was Alex Erickson vs Adrian Arrington. Erickson prepped at tiny Darlington in Wisconsin while growing up in nearby and even smaller Argyle. He was originally going to play basketball at UW Stevens Point when Bert gave him the opportunity to walk on at Wisconsin. He played his way into a solid player, went undrafted, signed with the Bengals and stuck, and is now playing the best ball of his career and looking for a second contract. Meanwhile Braxton Miller, a third round pick that year, flamed out quickly with the Houston Texans and is on his third practice squad as he tries desperately to stay in the league.

Adrian Arrington prepped at and won a state championship for Cedar Rapids Washington, went to Michigan as a celebrated four star, played with Jason Avant, Mario Manningham and Steve Breaston, was drafted by the pass happy Saints, and bounced up and down between their active roster and practice squad for four years. Injuries didn't help, but neither did his attitude, probably instilled in him well before college. He is now the offensive coordinator for the Cedar Rapids Titans of the sub-AFL Indoor Football League.

Moral of the story? Sometimes you just never know. This is but one example and I can guarantee you there are dozens more.

 

[RobHowe]

Rivals and 247 ranked Noah Fant and TJ Hockenson as three-stars.

 

[BVHawk95]

Nothing against OM, but now I'm kinda hoping Lockett gets the extra snaps this week.

Just to see the chaos around here!

I have a feeling he'll surprise some people.

Solid offer list, good size, and has some wheels as well. Rob told us when he committed that he'll remind people of ISM.

 

[tksirius]

Learning the routes is easy. ANYONE can learn the routes. ANYONE can run the routes.

The issues are when the QB makes calls on the LOS and there is a blitz on the way are the receivers making the proper hot reads and running the proper routes then? Typically in a slimmed down pro-style offense, there are at least three different hot routes that need to be run in order to overcome the defense and the receiver is the one who has to know which one to run.

When the receiver gets bumped off their route are they regaining the route in time to make a catch?

When the player runs the proper route and is in the vicinity of the actual receiver, is that player then helping his teammate by blocking to help or is that player whiffing? (Seen that happen to Miller a couple of times)

When a run play is called is the player blocking or whiffing?

And for those who complain about practice and game being different.... Practice does NOT make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect. The coaches have only practices to assess player abilities. If they aren't doing it in practice they won't be doing it in games.

That's what practice is for. It doesn't take that long to get down. That being said, I understand that some fb players are slow learners. Oliver doesn't strike me as one of those types.

 

[RobHowe]

 

[RobHowe]

 

[koralakers]

Martin is way too ATHLETIC to get any reps in a Ferentz offense. Prolly only a B+ Blocker. We all know WRs are lineman-first, maybe run a route over 7 yards every once-in-a-while second.

 

[hawkeyes87]

Based on this replay I think the call of "really nice catch" should "stand as called".

No clear evidence for or against...

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Martin not playing as much.

2 scenarios come to mind:

1. He really is not good enough. Could not hack it at Michigan and can't hack it here.

OR

2.

This guy over this guy

or this guy over this guy

This staff has a knack for not putting their best players out on the field. It would not shock be if option b is another example of talent rotting on the Iowa sidelines.

 

[HawkeyeDenis]

Oliver Martin has to be better than the players ahead of him to get on the field. (The best coach/ player is the one on the bench. Fan logic)

 

[karras]

IowaLaw you should (if you haven't already) go back to 1999 and add up all the 4/5 star players (use multiple services) as well as prep-All-Americans/Juco All-Americans and proven transfers and then report the production we got out of them. About a year ago I started that project myself and quit half way thru. IIRC Kirk averages about 5 guys per class who fit that mold. Of that a very small % become starters and ever smaller % graduate to the NFL. The number of 2/3 stars who go on to become stars is astounding. Perplexing to say the least.

 

[Ben Rumson]

Most objective Hawk fans are puzzled why 4 star Oliver Martin, who had 11 receptions as just a freshmen at WR heavy Michigan last year, and according to coach Harbaugh would have started there this year, is averaging something like 3 snaps per game at Iowa, where the WR corp is much improved, but mediocre.

The limited answers we are hearing from the coaching staff far indicate that "learning the system is a foreign language, so it takes time," and that because "Martin is learning all 3 positions, that adds to the learning curve." Huh??

So here's a brain buster for the cerebral staff...if your goal is to have your best athletes on the field (unlike last year, when Max Cooper was playing ahead of Noah Fant in key situations, or countless other examples), and learning Iowa's very basic WR routes is "super complicated," why require your unquestionably talented but brand new WR to learn all 3 WR positions in his first 4 months on campus, while the guys who have been in the system for 3 years are focusing on just 1 WR position? Shouldn't that be reversed?

I know I didn't get my degree in phys ed like Kirk, and I wasn't handed a $500,000 per year job in my 20s by my dad like Brian, but common sense dictates that you teach your brand new WR a limited set of material to ensure he can on the field as quickly as possible. The veterans on the team can play any WR position they want because they've started 25+ games and know the system. Teach the newcomers 1 position and maximize the talent on the field.

I believe it must be a very complicated and confusing system as I'm confused on just what the hell Brian's trying to accomplish every Saturday!

 

[HaydenHawk56]

I believe it must be a very complicated and confusing system as I'm confused on just what the hell Brian's trying to accomplish every Saturday!

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Most objective Hawk fans are puzzled why 4 star Oliver Martin, who had 11 receptions as just a freshmen at WR heavy Michigan last year, and according to coach Harbaugh would have started there this year, is averaging something like 3 snaps per game at Iowa, where the WR corp is much improved, but mediocre.

The limited answers we are hearing from the coaching staff far indicate that "learning the system is a foreign language, so it takes time," and that because "Martin is learning all 3 positions, that adds to the learning curve." Huh??

So here's a brain buster for the cerebral staff...if your goal is to have your best athletes on the field (unlike last year, when Max Cooper was playing ahead of Noah Fant in key situations, or countless other examples), and learning Iowa's very basic WR routes is "super complicated," why require your unquestionably talented but brand new WR to learn all 3 WR positions in his first 4 months on campus, while the guys who have been in the system for 3 years are focusing on just 1 WR position? Shouldn't that be reversed?

I know I didn't get my degree in phys ed like Kirk, and I wasn't handed a $500,000 per year job in my 20s by my dad like Brian, but common sense dictates that you teach your brand new WR a limited set of material to ensure he can on the field as quickly as possible. The veterans on the team can play any WR position they want because they've started 25+ games and know the system. Teach the newcomers 1 position and maximize the talent on the field.

When I saw "Common Sense..." and the OP, I chuckled. I admit it, I chuckled.

 

[Xerxes]

Knight - thank you for the recitation of cherry picked tight ends who went to the NFL over the past 20 years (while omitting highly touted 4 **** CJ Fiedorowitz, 4**** AJ Derby, 4**** Tony Moeake, and the crown of the 2016 class, Noah Fant). In what way was your post responsive to the statement "while star rating is not the most relevant means of judging a sophomore" exactly?

While you're on a roll responding to a thread about a highly touted WR who finds himself curiously riding the pine behind WRs with no D1 offers like Nico Ragaini, go ahead and list off all of the diamond in the rough WRs that Kirk molded into NFL draft picks. Clearly identifying and developing WR talent is his strong suit, and you're just the guy to prove that Oliver Martin has no business on the playing field.

Let's face it, personnel mistakes and stubbornness are as characteristic of Kirk as poor clock management and ball control football.

Lets face it, skill position players from Iowa haven't exactly had an easy time transition to B1G football as an impact player.

A lot of people are saying Oliver is such an athlete. Where did people see this outside of high school videos against Iowa kids?

 

[NikeHawk21]

Lets face it, skill position players from Iowa haven't exactly had an easy time transition to B1G football as an impact player.

A lot of people are saying Oliver is such an athlete. Where did people see this outside of high school videos against Iowa kids?

Here is a quote from a separate Oregon Ducks 247 article.

“The good thing is Martin is getting what he deserves now. Michigan was the latest to offer Sunday joining Oregon, Iowa, Michigan State, Indiana, Wisconsin, BYU and Illinois. More opportunities are sure to come for Martin who ran a 4.57 laser-time 40-yard dash with a 4.15 pro-agility and impressive 41-6 inch vertical during testing at The Opening this past Friday. His Nike Football Rating of 133.02 is among the best in America.”

 

[earlkoppelman]

This Oliver Martin thing amazes me.

Hawkeye fans have seen 5 catches for 28 yards and a mention on a Jim Harbaugh depth chart and all of a sudden the kid is Julian Edelman and Copeland doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

What Scared me? Know that you asked! COMMON sense staff.. H/c.and O/c

How does anyone know that the kid is actually catching on?

I mean I get the people want to see him play, but what’s the evidence that he’s learned enough?

I understood the outrage over Epenesa, but at least there was some performance in the field to justify it.

 

[Xerxes]

Here is a quote from a separate Oregon Ducks 247 article.

“The good thing is Martin is getting what he deserves now. Michigan was the latest to offer Sunday joining Oregon, Iowa, Michigan State, Indiana, Wisconsin, BYU and Illinois. More opportunities are sure to come for Martin who ran a 4.57 laser-time 40-yard dash with a 4.15 pro-agility and impressive 41-6 inch vertical during testing at The Opening this past Friday. His Nike Football Rating of 133.02 is among the best in America.”

Then it must be a playbook thing. Otherwise KF would have him out there in the rotation at least.

I'm well aware of the narrative here about Kirk not playing talent, but the truth is Kirk will give you a chance if you know the playbook regardless of your age and talent level.

We've seen plenty of walk-ons and scholarship players (a gray-shirt player too) get in as true FR, RS FR, or SO because KF could trust them not making mental errors.

 

[homes]

First, unless our head coach is a "Russian asset" (the common parlance going around these days), and has designs on ruining the program, my presumption is he is putting what he believes to be the best guys on the field, based on what he sees in practice and what he sees during the games.

Second, no one, including this head coach, is infallible in terms of assessing who can produce on the field during a game. Sometimes they overlook something about a player, and that guy, if given the chance, would improve the team's chances in a game. It happens. You hope those instances are minimal. I would say overall that's true for Iowa.

Third, maybe he's right or maybe he's wrong about Martin not playing more, but my presumption about Martin is the same as I have about everyone else who is, or is not, playing. I suspect we'll see him more this week given the injury to Smith, and we might get a better idea of what he can bring to the table this year for the Hawks. If he plays and shines, that's great news for the rest of the season. I'd like to see him get some more snaps this week to see what he can bring to the table. However, looking back, I wouldn't say that the 2 losses are attributable to the WR play.