Common Sense Question For Staff on Martin

[BVHawk95]

We all know what’s going on here, same shit just a different day. It’s the Same crap with Goodson,

The same crap with the TRFR who's currently averaging 10 touches per game, second on the team?

 

[ChosenChildren]

I don't care who Ferentz plays. I really don't. He is the coach.

But Iowa must be dynamic enough Saturday to defeat Northwestern. Iowa has the talent to win this game and should win this game. A coach must be judged on how he prepares his team. This is a must win for Iowa this year.

 

[Fryowa]

We all know what’s going on here, same shit just a different day. It’s the Same crap with Goodson,

Goodson I might be inclined to agree that he should get used more because I’ve watched they kid play a bunch and make a bunch of plays.

Oliver Martin hasn’t done anything to prove one way or another.

If you’re arguing you want to see him play more just to see how he does I get that, but if it’s because you think he’s better than receiver X, Y, or Z, nobody knows that.

 

[Northside Hawk]

The deal is, Michigan, Notre Dame and Ohio State, among others, offered him. Heck Urban even showed up at his house to try and get him to commit, I believe. That's one of the reasons for the disconnect.

I think part of it is that Kirk and Brian are old school, Woody Hayes and Chuch Noll like. The other guys were here the whole time and Oliver went to where he thought there were greener pastures, to Ann Arbor. Now, Brian has inherited his dad's stubbornness and is going to stick with the guys who were here the whole time, instead of playing some guy who they may think felt entitled to come in here and start. Just speculation, I admit.

Ivory Kelly Martin and Marvin McNutt have tweeted out wondering why the staff won't play Martin. A report I heard on the radio is that he's practicing well and pretty much knows the playbook.

This is almost right up there with Kirk and Brian not playing Fant as much as they should have last year. Not quite, but same principle.

If IKM has gone to Twitter and questioned another player's playing time it might explain why he's not getting much of it himself.

IKM is probably looking at a redshirt now anyway but who knows where he will stand when the year is over.

 

[chucktownhawk]

No wonder the kid isn't catching on

 

[SteveGarvey1]

The thought that Kirk or Brian aren't playing OM because he committed to Michigan is ludicrous. Seriously. And to throw Goodson in there too? That is ridiculous because they are playing Goodson, a lot. They are going to not take the redshirt on Belton it looks like because he is healthy and can help the team. This staff along with pretty much any other staff is more concerned about winning football games than anything else.

If anybody watches a Michigan game they will very quickly figure out OM was not starting there and his snaps would be limited. And what has he done here to show anybody that he has a skill set that is unique or better than the players ahead of him? On the other hand, b smith has great hands and size and has been here 3 years, ISM is fast and has been here 3 years, Nico has been here a year longer and has shown quickness and toughness out of the slot, and Tracy is playing not because he can catch but because he makes people miss in space. OM is a really good mix of all of that, but more of a jack of all trades and master of none.

If you want to nitpick, I know of atleast one occasion and I think there were two when OM came in the game and immediately committed a penalty. That is just an indication that it hasn't all come together for him yet, the roads, nomenclature, chemistry, etc.

Lastly, being a WR isn't all about getting the line call and running a simple route. There is blocking of course, we all know that. But above all is the variable nature of a play in reaction to a defense where they have to be in tune with the quarterback. We call it chemistry, but specifically it is 2 people knowing what the other is going to do within a split second, in reaction, and without verbalizing it. Look at Brady. He is very good yes, can make all the throws. But he has deficiencies too. Cant run mostly. Same category as Marino, P Manning, Kurt Warner, etc. Look at Edelman. Very good receiver. Not the biggest, nor fastest. But the combination of the two is amazing, because they know they can trust each other on each and every play that they read the same thing. Why does it always look like Brady throws to a guy wide open? Because they are and because the receiver, usually edelman runs his route where the defense isn't. That on-the-fly communication is deadly to defenses and indefensible.

Now we don't have any dynamic like that, but, we are attempting to. OM just got here, he hasn't been around Stanley very long and you need a lot of time and reps to improve that phase. At this point, with Stanley a senior, it would be best of OM developed that chemistry with next years quarterback. It's why you see that a lot of times in football where the performance of a quarterback and wr are symbiotic, and when one leaves and the other on their own it suffers

All valid points.

But it remains a mystery to folks why such a highly touted receiver plays 1-2 snaps a game, if that, when the guys ahead of him are good but not great receivers.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Never said it was dynamic. But no one on this board has ever been involved in an Iowa football practice.

But this does bring back a theme we've heard before. "Iowa's offense is tough to learn" has been an excuse throughout the KFz era for talented players not getting on the field sooner. So I'll repeat the painfully obvious extension of that claim.
If your offensive scheme is tough for your players to learn, but easy for the opposition to prepare for and it struggles to score points...it's a lousy offense.

 

[HuckFinn]

Speculation is, well, speculation.

 

[hawkeyes87]

Nothing against OM, but now I'm kinda hoping Lockett gets the extra snaps this week.

Just to see the chaos around here!

 

[NikeHawk21]

If IKM has gone to Twitter and questioned another player's playing time it might explain why he's not getting much of it himself.

IKM is probably looking at a redshirt now anyway but who knows where he will stand when the year is over.

It was a typo by that poster. He meant KMM Kevonte Martin-Manley. I saw the tweet on another board. I think the tweet has since been deleted though.

 

[Fryowa]

But this does bring back a theme we've heard before. "Iowa's offense is tough to learn" has been an excuse throughout the KFz era for talented players not getting on the field sooner. So I'll repeat the painfully obvious extension of that claim.
If your offensive scheme is tough for your players to learn, but easy for the opposition to prepare for and it struggles to score points...it's a lousy offense.

I don't disagree with you necessarily, and I am definitely not a Ferentz apologist, but in the case of an Epenesa, Goodson, etc., we have proof of those guys being impact players and we know they can cut the mustard. Martin hasn't been on the field anywhere near enough to make that judgement. People saying he's so talented are basing it on Harbaugh listing him on a depth chart at the beginning of the year.

Now if someone had a bunch of practice film showing something different or if he had played a couple of big games, I'd 100% be open to saying he should be out there in place of Tracy or Ragaini or whoever. But there's nothing there to show us that.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I was a little frustrated with this yesterday but if you listen to the quotes it makes more sense. Oliver was practicing at the other two WR positions, it just happened that he wasn’t working much in the X position where B Smith was.

Let’s see how Saturday plays out. My guess is Martin gets more snaps. Bye week next week so he can start working in the X if the coaches want to go that route. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Martin as the starter in the X position for the Wisconsin game.

Let’s pump the brakes here a bit.

 

[Northside Hawk]

It was a typo by that poster. He meant KMM Kevonte Martin-Manley. I saw the tweet on another board. I think the tweet has since been deleted though.

Ok that makes sense.

More and more players are starting to go by hyphenated last names. It's easy to mess them up with one finger slipping on the keyboard.

 

[westender]

Most objective Hawk fans are puzzled why 4 star Oliver Martin, who had 11 receptions as just a freshmen at WR heavy Michigan last year, and according to coach Harbaugh would have started there this year, is averaging something like 3 snaps per game at Iowa, where the WR corp is much improved, but mediocre.

The limited answers we are hearing from the coaching staff far indicate that "learning the system is a foreign language, so it takes time," and that because "Martin is learning all 3 positions, that adds to the learning curve." Huh??

So here's a brain buster for the cerebral staff...if your goal is to have your best athletes on the field (unlike last year, when Max Cooper was playing ahead of Noah Fant in key situations, or countless other examples), and learning Iowa's very basic WR routes is "super complicated," why require your unquestionably talented but brand new WR to learn all 3 WR positions in his first 4 months on campus, while the guys who have been in the system for 3 years are focusing on just 1 WR position? Shouldn't that be reversed?

I know I didn't get my degree in phys ed like Kirk, and I wasn't handed a $500,000 per year job in my 20s by my dad like Brian, but common sense dictates that you teach your brand new WR a limited set of material to ensure he can on the field as quickly as possible. The veterans on the team can play any WR position they want because they've started 25+ games and know the system. Teach the newcomers 1 position and maximize the talent on the field.

Why don't you go stand outside the facility and ask when Kirk comes out to go home. I am sure he'd be happy to discuss with you.

 

[westender]

What cracks me up is people think it takes more than a few of weeks to learn receiver routes in any program. I know some football players are dumb, but it's really not that difficult.

Eaaaazzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. A damn 5th grader could do it.

 

[chucktownhawk]

Whatever the issue is, that's on him and the coaches. I hope to see Martin out there at some point. And if he is, great. Make plays and go on to the next. Who fucking cares what the coach(es) are or aren't saying, or what Stanley did or (didn't) say. The fact is he's talented, and I hope he can help us out. I think OM found out that Michigan has better athletes, and by him coming back here, it adds another person to the mix. Everyone just needs to cut him a little slack (just b/c he went to Michigan, oooohhh, big deal). If he doesn't see the field, so be it. We have other wr's that are doing a good job, so we go with them.

 

[Knight78]

Melrose - while star rating is not the most relevant means of judging a sophomore, to answer your question, yes...O Martin really was a 4 ****, long before he committed to Michigan. He also had offers from the likes of Auburn, Oregon, Notre Dame, and his pick of blue bloods. In contrast, Nico Ragaini, who plays ahead of Martin, had offers from no one other than mighty Yale. Pretty different pedigree.

Star rating means a lot. I mean.... look at how high TJ Hockenson was rated. He was a 5 sta.... wait, 4 star.... nope 3 star (and just barely a 3 star). I guess the coaches knew something there.

So let's go to another guy because TJ was the exception; let's look at another great player. George Kittle was a 5 sta.... no, he was a 4 star.... nope - 3 star (and even lower recruit rating than TJ). I guess the coaching staff knew something there. He was plagued by injuries during college.

OK, another guy. Alan Reisner was a 2-star (.7222) and had a 4 year NFL career (meaning he is fully vested).

I could keep going. There are a TON of guys who were rated low that the Iowa coaching staff got to the NFL. Your hate of Coach Ferentz is blinding you to what he has done that is positive.

 

[HawkU]

What cracks me up is people think it takes more than a few of weeks to learn receiver routes in any program. I know some football players are dumb, but it's really not that difficult.

Especially Iowa's offensive offense.

Ask a two year old kid how difficult it is to learn how to eat vanilla ice cream.

 

[Knight78]

What cracks me up is people think it takes more than a few of weeks to learn receiver routes in any program. I know some football players are dumb, but it's really not that difficult.

Learning the routes is easy. ANYONE can learn the routes. ANYONE can run the routes.

The issues are when the QB makes calls on the LOS and there is a blitz on the way are the receivers making the proper hot reads and running the proper routes then? Typically in a slimmed down pro-style offense, there are at least three different hot routes that need to be run in order to overcome the defense and the receiver is the one who has to know which one to run.

When the receiver gets bumped off their route are they regaining the route in time to make a catch?

When the player runs the proper route and is in the vicinity of the actual receiver, is that player then helping his teammate by blocking to help or is that player whiffing? (Seen that happen to Miller a couple of times)

When a run play is called is the player blocking or whiffing?

And for those who complain about practice and game being different.... Practice does NOT make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect. The coaches have only practices to assess player abilities. If they aren't doing it in practice they won't be doing it in games.

 

[IowaLawWasRight]

Knight - thank you for the recitation of cherry picked tight ends who went to the NFL over the past 20 years (while omitting highly touted 4 **** CJ Fiedorowitz, 4**** AJ Derby, 4**** Tony Moeake, and the crown of the 2016 class, Noah Fant). In what way was your post responsive to the statement "while star rating is not the most relevant means of judging a sophomore" exactly?

While you're on a roll responding to a thread about a highly touted WR who finds himself curiously riding the pine behind WRs with no D1 offers like Nico Ragaini, go ahead and list off all of the diamond in the rough WRs that Kirk molded into NFL draft picks. Clearly identifying and developing WR talent is his strong suit, and you're just the guy to prove that Oliver Martin has no business on the playing field.

Let's face it, personnel mistakes and stubbornness are as characteristic of Kirk as poor clock management and ball control football.

Star rating means a lot. I mean.... look at how high TJ Hockenson was rated. He was a 5 sta.... wait, 4 star.... nope 3 star (and just barely a 3 star). I guess the coaches knew something there.

So let's go to another guy because TJ was the exception; let's look at another great player. George Kittle was a 5 sta.... no, he was a 4 star.... nope - 3 star (and even lower recruit rating than TJ). I guess the coaching staff knew something there. He was plagued by injuries during college.

OK, another guy. Alan Reisner was a 2-star (.7222) and had a 4 year NFL career (meaning he is fully vested).

I could keep going. There are a TON of guys who were rated low that the Iowa coaching staff got to the NFL. Your hate of Coach Ferentz is blinding you to what he has done that is positive.