No kidding... Sending kids to public school now is getting scary. Pretty soon they won't even have two sets of locker rooms just let em all share one who cares right?
Coach flights
- Thread starter hawkdrummer1
- Start date
pythagoras
Well-Known Member
Fryowa
Administrator
Just want to toss a couple points out there.This is me. You won't catch me getting hitched or having kids. Call me selfish but that crap ruins lives. I'm sure we all know of guys it's happened to. Never understood those that get married 2-3 plus times and having kids that grow up in such non conventional homes. To consciously do that just seems borderline criminal to me and not fair to the kid(s)
You speak too much logic and common sense for this board though tone it down
I, like you, wouldn’t consider getting married. Same thing, too many friends have ruined their life savings in divorces, custody issues ruin their mental health, etc.
However I do have a 12 year old son who doesn’t live in the “convemtional home.” His mom and I were together for a about a year and a half before he was born, and about three years after (never married). We never really got along at all the whole time we were together, and much of that time spent was staying together because we didn’t want to split with a child. So...eventually we realized we were hurting the situation more than helping it, and she moved out. Luckily we are both reasonable people and we decided that since we live within a mile of each other in the same town, and since neither of us could bear being a “weekend warrior” parent, we would split custody 50/50 during the week and every other weekend. We also don’t do child support (I’ll get to that in a minute), we split everything exactly in half and it works great. I don’t know shit about clothes so when it’s clothes shopping time she gets it and I pay half the receipt. School lunch? She pays 1st semester, I pay 2nd. Doctor bills, insurance, sports fees...half. There are plenty of things that we both do on our own for him financial-wise, but we handle that ourselves to the degree we think it’s necessary.
We also—and this is crucial—are super flexible on the schedule. If I’m going fishing or something on the weekend and he doesn’t have anything going on at his mom’s, all I do is call her and say, “Hey, is it ok if I come pick up Fryowa Jr to go fishing, I’ll drop him off when we get home.” Never been turned down yet. Same thing for her if they want to go do something. We just stay courteous and make sure he still gets equal time.
He’s 12 now and we’ve been doing this since ‘09. He gets mostly A’s in school, has lots of good friends, stays involved in sports and after school stuff, and he’s way smarter than I was at his age.
Bottom line is that it’s not the unconventional home that wrecks kids’ lives, it’s 80% the parents being douches, and 20% the state enforcing unneeded requirements on parents that also drive some parents to do douchey things. For instance, if we had been married, we would have been required to establish a custody agreement whether we wanted/needed one or not (which we didn’t). Those things are just weapons in parents’s hands to cause fights. We would also have to set up child support which would have been needlessly shitty for me because she makes less money. But...we’re both reasonable people and both of us know it took two to tango here. We split the expenses in half that are required to raise a kid and do the rest separately. Luckily for me she realizes that my (or her) income level doesn’t entitle the other person to part of it just because.
Now I know there are some seriously shitty parents out there who shouldn’t have kids in the first place, and some custody/support laws are necessary. But even if his mom and I are one of few, they should be optional for those who can do it better on their own.
Two takeaways...
1) Marriage is fucking stupid. It’s a meaningless, archaic, leftover relic from a made up religion. You need to have some dumb religious ceremony at a church carnival to say you’re committed to somebody? Fine. Do it. But don’t bring laws and the state into it. The only difference between marriage and living with someone you love is that if you decide it isn’t working out, now you have to ruin each other’s lives financially and F your kids over in a divorce because you signed a business contract. It’s a contract designed to make it as mentally and financially ruinious as possible to spouses and children, in hopes that they don’t do it and stay together. Yeeeaaahhh...that’ll work. We get along way better now that we don’t live with each other and I’d say we’re even good friends. Shoulda gotten married like good Judeo-Christians though, huh. Cause that’s what the book of spells tells us we’re supposed to do before having kids. And for any religious weirdos out there who feel like preaching, I don’t believe in your fairies and hobgoblins, so it won’t scare me into repentance. Save the keystrokes.
2) Kids can and do thrive in unconventional homes. Again, it’s up to the parents, but they can. Would I love to have my kid every day? You bet. But I talk to him probably 5 times a day minimum when he’s at his mom’s. Truth be told, I usually see him everyday anyway because I coach sports, pick him up and drop him off at activities, etc. His mom and I talk everyday about stuff that has to do with our son, and I even babysit her other kid when they’re in a pinch (she’s married now). People can make it work, they just have to not be douche bags.
Last edited:
Just want to toss a couple points out there.
I, like you, wouldn’t consider getting married. Same thing, too many friends have ruined their life savings in divorces, custody issues ruin their mental health, etc.
However I do have a 12 year old son who doesn’t live in the “convemtional home.” His mom and I were together for a about a year and a half before he was born, and about three years after (never married). We never really got along at all the whole time we were together, and much of that time spent was staying together because we didn’t want to split with a child. So...eventually we realized we were hurting the situation more than helping it, and she moved out. Luckily we are both reasonable people and we decided that since we live within a mile of each other in the same town, and since neither of us could bear being a “weekend warrior” parent, we would split custody 50/50 during the week and every other weekend. We also don’t do child support (I’ll get to that in a minute), we split everything exactly in half and it works great. I don’t know shit about clothes so when it’s clothes shopping time she gets it and I pay half the receipt. School lunch? She pays 1st semester, I pay 2nd. Doctor bills, insurance, sports fees...half. There are plenty of things that we both do on our own for him financial-wise, but we handle that ourselves to the degree we think it’s necessary.
We also—and this is crucial—are super flexible on the schedule. If I’m going fishing or something on the weekend and he doesn’t have anything going on at his mom’s, all I do is call her and say, “Hey, is it ok if I come pick up Fryowa Jr to go fishing, I’ll drop him off when we get home.” Never been turned down yet. Same thing for her if they want to go do something. We just stay courteous and make sure he still gets equal time.
He’s 12 now and we’ve been doing this since ‘09. He gets mostly A’s in school, has lots of good friends, stays involved in sports and after school stuff, and he’s way smarter than I was at his age.
Bottom line is that it’s not the unconventional home that wrecks kids’ lives, it’s 80% the parents being douches, and 20% the state enforcing unneeded requirements on parents that also drive some parents to do douchey things. For instance, if we had been married, we would have been required to establish a custody agreement whether we wanted/needed one or not (which we didn’t). Those things are just weapons in parents’s hands to cause fights. We would also have to set up child support which would have been needlessly shitty for me because she makes less money. But...we’re both reasonable people and both of us know it took two to tango here. We split the expenses in half that are required to raise a kid and do the rest separately. Luckily for me she realizes that my (or her) income level doesn’t entitle the other person to part of it just because.
Now I know there are some seriously shitty parents out there who shouldn’t have kids in the first place, and some custody/support laws are necessary. But even if his mom and I are one of few, they should be optional for those who can do it better on their own.
Two takeaways...
1) Marriage is fucking stupid. It’s a meaningless, archaic, leftover relic from a made up religion. You need to have some dumb religious ceremony at a church carnival to say you’re committed to somebody? Fine. Do it. But don’t bring laws and the state into it. The only difference between marriage and living with someone you love is that if you decide it isn’t working out, now you have to ruin each other’s lives financially and F your kids over in a divorce because you signed a business contract. It’s a contract designed to make it as mentally and financially ruinious as possible to spouses and children, in hopes that they don’t do it and stay together. Yeeeaaahhh...that’ll work. We get along way better now that we don’t live with each other and I’d say we’re even good friends. Shoulda gotten married like good Judeo-Christians though, huh. Cause that’s what the book of spells tells us we’re supposed to do before having kids. And for any religious weirdos out there who feel like preaching, I don’t believe in your fairies and hobgoblins, so it won’t scare me into repentance. Save the keystrokes.
2) Kids can and do thrive in unconventional homes. Again, it’s up to the parents, but they can. Would I love to have my kid every day? You bet. But I talk to him probably 5 times a day minimum when he’s at his mom’s. Truth be told, I usually see him everyday anyway because I coach sports, pick him up and drop him off at activities, etc. His mom and I talk everyday about stuff that has to do with our son, and I even babysit her other kid when they’re in a pinch (she’s married now). People can make it work, they just have to not be douche bags.
If only others shared the common sense you and your ex have... I mean seriously I've never heard of a 'better situation' (for lack of a better term) for what you guys have going. That is what putting the kid first is all about. Obviously you're in the extreme minority and that's the only reason I generalized the way I did. That is how it should be done. They're others that make it work too even if it's not as seamless as the way you guys have. But not many. And the court system we have is all about the woman. She'll 'win' every time things get in front of a judge. Unless she's less worthless than a wet paper bag judges grant them most of what they want.
Could not agree more with your take on marriage. That is exactly why when the LGBT community all started making a stink about getting married I was like I'm not sure why they want to but who cares go ahead and let em. As far as the religious folks caring it makes even less sense. To me who cares if the government recognizes a marriage or not? As you said it started out as a religious thing. Nobody is forcing churches to marry them so far that's not a thing. Just business to make them cakes (whole other topic) But if the government as messed up as they are want to recognize marriages and accept their $ for licenses and then for when they file for divorce and keep giving lawyers more to do then that's on them.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Just want to toss a couple points out there.
I, like you, wouldn’t consider getting married. Same thing, too many friends have ruined their life savings in divorces, custody issues ruin their mental health, etc.
However I do have a 12 year old son who doesn’t live in the “convemtional home.” His mom and I were together for a about a year and a half before he was born, and about three years after (never married). We never really got along at all the whole time we were together, and much of that time spent was staying together because we didn’t want to split with a child. So...eventually we realized we were hurting the situation more than helping it, and she moved out. Luckily we are both reasonable people and we decided that since we live within a mile of each other in the same town, and since neither of us could bear being a “weekend warrior” parent, we would split custody 50/50 during the week and every other weekend. We also don’t do child support (I’ll get to that in a minute), we split everything exactly in half and it works great. I don’t know shit about clothes so when it’s clothes shopping time she gets it and I pay half the receipt. School lunch? She pays 1st semester, I pay 2nd. Doctor bills, insurance, sports fees...half. There are plenty of things that we both do on our own for him financial-wise, but we handle that ourselves to the degree we think it’s necessary.
We also—and this is crucial—are super flexible on the schedule. If I’m going fishing or something on the weekend and he doesn’t have anything going on at his mom’s, all I do is call her and say, “Hey, is it ok if I come pick up Fryowa Jr to go fishing, I’ll drop him off when we get home.” Never been turned down yet. Same thing for her if they want to go do something. We just stay courteous and make sure he still gets equal time.
He’s 12 now and we’ve been doing this since ‘09. He gets mostly A’s in school, has lots of good friends, stays involved in sports and after school stuff, and he’s way smarter than I was at his age.
Bottom line is that it’s not the unconventional home that wrecks kids’ lives, it’s 80% the parents being douches, and 20% the state enforcing unneeded requirements on parents that also drive some parents to do douchey things. For instance, if we had been married, we would have been required to establish a custody agreement whether we wanted/needed one or not (which we didn’t). Those things are just weapons in parents’s hands to cause fights. We would also have to set up child support which would have been needlessly shitty for me because she makes less money. But...we’re both reasonable people and both of us know it took two to tango here. We split the expenses in half that are required to raise a kid and do the rest separately. Luckily for me she realizes that my (or her) income level doesn’t entitle the other person to part of it just because.
Now I know there are some seriously shitty parents out there who shouldn’t have kids in the first place, and some custody/support laws are necessary. But even if his mom and I are one of few, they should be optional for those who can do it better on their own.
Two takeaways...
1) Marriage is fucking stupid. It’s a meaningless, archaic, leftover relic from a made up religion. You need to have some dumb religious ceremony at a church carnival to say you’re committed to somebody? Fine. Do it. But don’t bring laws and the state into it. The only difference between marriage and living with someone you love is that if you decide it isn’t working out, now you have to ruin each other’s lives financially and F your kids over in a divorce because you signed a business contract. It’s a contract designed to make it as mentally and financially ruinious as possible to spouses and children, in hopes that they don’t do it and stay together. Yeeeaaahhh...that’ll work. We get along way better now that we don’t live with each other and I’d say we’re even good friends. Shoulda gotten married like good Judeo-Christians though, huh. Cause that’s what the book of spells tells us we’re supposed to do before having kids. And for any religious weirdos out there who feel like preaching, I don’t believe in your fairies and hobgoblins, so it won’t scare me into repentance. Save the keystrokes.
2) Kids can and do thrive in unconventional homes. Again, it’s up to the parents, but they can. Would I love to have my kid every day? You bet. But I talk to him probably 5 times a day minimum when he’s at his mom’s. Truth be told, I usually see him everyday anyway because I coach sports, pick him up and drop him off at activities, etc. His mom and I talk everyday about stuff that has to do with our son, and I even babysit her other kid when they’re in a pinch (she’s married now). People can make it work, they just have to not be douche bags.
While I would disagree with a couple of your points about marriage and religion, I thank you for saving me the keystrokes in advance
Bottom line: it's about the kids. Other lines in the equation: state guidelines...are just that. But the way courts enforce them can be brutal. But...the reason for that is USUALLY...one of the parents has been slightly less than a "model" parent.
I married a wonderful woman who had a five-year old daughter who is, for all intents and purposes, "my" daughter. She, herself, put it best one time. "My Dad isn't a bad father only to me. He's just a 'bad' father, period". But...she has a step-mother who has been wonderful and supportive, an older step-sister who is one of her best friends, three half-brothers and two half-sisters whom she adores, and nephews and nieces whom she absolutely treasures. Was her upbringing "conventional"? Not even.
Has she turned out okay? WAY more than "okay". Finished college early, has a great career, a guy she loves, an awesome Golden Retriever, and loves living in Seattle (though her place is WAY too damn small for us to stay when we visit!). So...today, on this, her 29th birthday, I raise a glass to my daughter, Austin!
Fryowa
Administrator
Coming from a guy who believes in mythical fairy tales made up thousands of years ago to control illiterate people and comfort folks who can’t process the idea of mortality—a person who would at the same time mock someone else who believes in unicorns or a flat earth—I’ll just let you make my point for me. See ya in the afterlife, reverend
Last edited:
Fryowa
Administrator
That’s one of the saddest things I’ve ever read.
If I heard that come out of my kid’s mouth I’d have a hard time not walking in front of a semi. I mean, what the hell else do you have as a human being if your own offspring don’t like you?
Jeez.
karras
Well-Known Member
Just want to toss a couple points out there.
I, like you, wouldn’t consider getting married. Same thing, too many friends have ruined their life savings in divorces, custody issues ruin their mental health, etc.
However I do have a 12 year old son who doesn’t live in the “convemtional home.” His mom and I were together for a about a year and a half before he was born, and about three years after (never married). We never really got along at all the whole time we were together, and much of that time spent was staying together because we didn’t want to split with a child. So...eventually we realized we were hurting the situation more than helping it, and she moved out. Luckily we are both reasonable people and we decided that since we live within a mile of each other in the same town, and since neither of us could bear being a “weekend warrior” parent, we would split custody 50/50 during the week and every other weekend. We also don’t do child support (I’ll get to that in a minute), we split everything exactly in half and it works great. I don’t know shit about clothes so when it’s clothes shopping time she gets it and I pay half the receipt. School lunch? She pays 1st semester, I pay 2nd. Doctor bills, insurance, sports fees...half. There are plenty of things that we both do on our own for him financial-wise, but we handle that ourselves to the degree we think it’s necessary.
We also—and this is crucial—are super flexible on the schedule. If I’m going fishing or something on the weekend and he doesn’t have anything going on at his mom’s, all I do is call her and say, “Hey, is it ok if I come pick up Fryowa Jr to go fishing, I’ll drop him off when we get home.” Never been turned down yet. Same thing for her if they want to go do something. We just stay courteous and make sure he still gets equal time.
He’s 12 now and we’ve been doing this since ‘09. He gets mostly A’s in school, has lots of good friends, stays involved in sports and after school stuff, and he’s way smarter than I was at his age.
Bottom line is that it’s not the unconventional home that wrecks kids’ lives, it’s 80% the parents being douches, and 20% the state enforcing unneeded requirements on parents that also drive some parents to do douchey things. For instance, if we had been married, we would have been required to establish a custody agreement whether we wanted/needed one or not (which we didn’t). Those things are just weapons in parents’s hands to cause fights. We would also have to set up child support which would have been needlessly shitty for me because she makes less money. But...we’re both reasonable people and both of us know it took two to tango here. We split the expenses in half that are required to raise a kid and do the rest separately. Luckily for me she realizes that my (or her) income level doesn’t entitle the other person to part of it just because.
Now I know there are some seriously shitty parents out there who shouldn’t have kids in the first place, and some custody/support laws are necessary. But even if his mom and I are one of few, they should be optional for those who can do it better on their own.
Two takeaways...
1) Marriage is fucking stupid. It’s a meaningless, archaic, leftover relic from a made up religion. You need to have some dumb religious ceremony at a church carnival to say you’re committed to somebody? Fine. Do it. But don’t bring laws and the state into it. The only difference between marriage and living with someone you love is that if you decide it isn’t working out, now you have to ruin each other’s lives financially and F your kids over in a divorce because you signed a business contract. It’s a contract designed to make it as mentally and financially ruinious as possible to spouses and children, in hopes that they don’t do it and stay together. Yeeeaaahhh...that’ll work. We get along way better now that we don’t live with each other and I’d say we’re even good friends. Shoulda gotten married like good Judeo-Christians though, huh. Cause that’s what the book of spells tells us we’re supposed to do before having kids. And for any religious weirdos out there who feel like preaching, I don’t believe in your fairies and hobgoblins, so it won’t scare me into repentance. Save the keystrokes.
2) Kids can and do thrive in unconventional homes. Again, it’s up to the parents, but they can. Would I love to have my kid every day? You bet. But I talk to him probably 5 times a day minimum when he’s at his mom’s. Truth be told, I usually see him everyday anyway because I coach sports, pick him up and drop him off at activities, etc. His mom and I talk everyday about stuff that has to do with our son, and I even babysit her other kid when they’re in a pinch (she’s married now). People can make it work, they just have to not be douche bags.
You use the word "unconventional" . . . I don't like that descriptor. It reminds me too much of social scientists trying to find a PC substitute for "non-traditional" family. And you're wrong about that not being bad for children. The reputable studies pretty much all agree. Children do better in a stable nuclear biological family than "unconventional" ones.
I read your post. Your wife is cool and your child is doing well. Good for you, her and the child. But in America your situation is the outlier and you know it, despite whatever your reply is, you know what I just said is true. Just like you know most women don't react the way your wife has reacted to a "family" where the mother and father don't wish to co-habitate.
I'm not saying you and the mother of your child should do things differently since they work for both of you (so far). But your anecdote doesn't disprove all the research done on children and families. It's anecdotal, not macro-picture reality.
I do agree over the last 50 years the government (i.e. courts) have turned children into real estate for the two parties to use; manipulate and fight over. And as a result millions of fathers (unlike Fryowa) have checked out of child-rearing, and millions of mothers have raised children telling them regularly "daddy is an a-hole". Which conveys the message "half of my DNA comes from evil". People as unlikely as Tupac and Kanye West and BHO have said that the epidemic of fatherless households in poor communities have ruined those communities. The same thing is happening to middle-class and wealthy communities. Just take a look at the infantilization of all elements of our society. It's right there on the front page of all news media every day of our lives.
It is not a success story to knock-up a woman who doesn't want you under her roof and vice versa. Your kid may grow up to be more well-adjusted than his parents, but that just means you and the mother beat the odds. And something else to remember, your story isn't over. That child will still be yours and the mothers for the next 50 years. Hopefully you can come back in future decades and be just as upbeat about the choices you and the mother have made.
Fryowa
Administrator
1st, she’s not my wife; I’ve never been married.
2nd, stop trying to muddy up the topic by using semantics. You don’t like “unconventional” but you like “non-traditional?” How about if I call my kid a “bastard child?” Because that’s what he is according to the definition 50 years ago. Is that “Un PC” enough for you?
Your shaming shit ain’t gonna work on me, Jack. Just like your trying to paint me as someone who endorses parents splitting up doesn’t work. If you took the time to understand and think about what you read, my post was about the fact that bastard children like mine don’t always have a bad upbringing and how it’s parenting, not the situation.
What I really think happened here is that you’re an evangelistic ape-brain whose nerves got struck when I bagged on marriage and religion. Be a man, come out and say so, Father O’Malley.
And don’t worry about my kid in 50 years. We’re best friends in every sense of the word and he’ll still be just fine when you’re rotting away in some nursing home eating puréed carrots, wondering why your own shitty, maladjusted kids won’t come visit their overbearing father and pushing the call button to get your diaper changed. People like you are the worst cancers to society. Using studies only when they suit their own agendas, pushing “tradition” on people because of their own fears and (fake) beliefs, and generally being the kind of person they claim to rail against. If everyone thought like you and society never evolved from traditions, we’d still live in a world where arranged marriages and beating kids was ok. I’m assuming you wouldn’t want that, but studies then probably showed that corporal punishment was a good way to get kids to shut up and that arranged marriages had a high success and happiness rate. Guess what? None of those are true.
Go back to whatever hole you crawled out of and tell that shitty college you got your sociology degree from that it didn’t take and you want your money back.
I don’t usually feel a need to reply to something that ignorant because it’s like talking to a garage door and expecting an intelligent answer, but what a puke.
Last edited:
You don't know anything about me, on what do you base this?Coming from a guy who believes in mythical fairy tales made up thousands of years ago to control illiterate people and comfort folks who can’t process the idea of mortality—a person who would at the same time mock someone else who believes in unicorns or a flat earth—I’ll just let you make my point for me. See ya in the afterlife, reverend
Fryowa
Administrator
I’m wrong then?
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Quite the opposite, really. She understands his limitations and adjusted beautifully. He is immature, selfish, but all in all, not a bad guy. He loves his kids. He just loves himself more. She just had to figure out how to accept and adjust.
I give him credit. When she was in high school, she wrote him a letter that she was no longer going to do the visitation schedule. She only had a year and a half left before college, so it wasn't like she was looking at much time before she could be at college and living her own choices. Her mother and I were pissed, and told her we disapproved.
But all four parents also knew that pushing back too hard could alienate her. About a year later, she realized she was just being selfish and was depriving herself of ALL parts of her family versus having her high school fun and having everything her own way. When she contacted them they never once threw it back in her face, but instead they welcomed her as if she had never stopped visiting. I knew she didn't do it for him (really for her siblings), but she made a point of apologizing to him directly because she understood that it was her responsibility to be mature and acknowledge she upset them.
And if you thought my wife and I were pissed, you should have seen my father-in-law! He finally said, one night while out at dinner, "It doesn't bother you to hurt your little sisters' feelings? I never thought of you as being mean".
The thing is, in spite of what mistakes we ALL make as parents, our kids can be pretty special if we merely let them!
Fryowa
Administrator
The high school brain is a funny thing.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
I still reflect with pride on the day she gifted me with her first f-bomb. I'm sure I deserved it!
Classified. Need to know basis.
Fryowa
Administrator
That’s what I thought.
Fryowa
Administrator
It’s much ado about nothing, really.
Womens sports’ popularity is a tiny fraction of the popularity of mens. Why would it not follow that they don’t have near the donor support?
The only reason women’s sports even exist at Iowa is because of the football and MBB teams. So to turn it around, Bluder should be happy to have what they do...the football and mens B-ball teams are writing all of her checks anyway.
