Chad’s Hawk Central Article

Iowa basketball coaching ranks since 1970s

Tier 1
1. Lute

Tier 2
2. The good doctor
3. Fran

Tier 3
4. Raveling

The rest aren’t really coaches but they played one on the sideline


5/6. Tie - alfraud &lackluster
 
Like a lot of things this isn’t as simple as it appears.

If Fran leaves it’s not going to be him getting fired. It’ll be a mutually agreed upon retirement.

Frans isn’t the only buyout if he leaves. DeVries also has a buyout that has to be paid to WV.

WV isn’t going to let him go without offering a big restructure including more money.

There’s a lot of layers to this thing.
Along with the assumption that DeVries would want to leave for Iowa too. That seems like a minor detail that's not exactly a given. Many seem to think it is. Timing is everything and I don't know if it'd be just so simple as the Iowa job is open and he's offered it that he'd jump for it. He's gotten himself a good gig. He's off to a good start there. I for one don't think it's a forgone conclusion that he'd leave that after 1 yr. But maybe and we'll probably find out one way or the other.
 
I wonder if DeVries would have been smart enough to get an 'Iowa' clause put into his WV contract?

What are the chances Iowa has always been his dream job, as it is with many others? Coaches do that and with good reason. Think about it, like many of us, he grew up a Hawk fan. He has the famous brother that was an All-American Hawkeye. Didn't he coach at City High? I think he coached Matt Gatens there.
 
Fran will still be my favorite Iowa basketball coach. Davis was good, but also overrated. He gets a lot of cult worship because of the “Doc Tom” thing.

He was a horrible recruiter who’d rather be golfing, and people forget he inherited that elite team he had. Once that team was gone he didn’t really do much except go on a slow slide into mediocrity. He whiffed on LaFrentz, Collison, and Hinrich before NIL, and Fran recruited Garza and the Murrays. The recruiting era Fran has had to operate in is orders of magnitude tougher with unlimited free agency and essentially no money to work with compared to the rest of the Big Ten and P6 in general.

Of all Iowa coaches, Fran did the most with what he had to work with and was the best recruiter by FAR. This will piss some people off, but he’s the best one we’ve had in the job.
Fry, I am a Fran fan, but the banging on Mr. Davis is a bit much. Yes, he inherited his best team from Raveling and damn near made it to the Final Four. That just tells me he was a better bench coach than a recruiter. Yes, he liked to golf and I do believe Fran was more of a grinder. But, Mr. Davis had a long career and consistently got the Hawks to the Dance. He played an exciting brand of basketball and attendance was a lot better under him than Fran. I get that is not all Fran's fault. That said, Mr. Davis was more fan friendly than Fran. Fran is very cerebral and quick, but he aint warm and fuzzy. Mr. Davis was huggable. You know that is the truth.

And, let's not forget in his final season, when he was a lame duck coach and everyone knew it, he led his team to the Sweet 16 again, something Fran has never done in his entire career.

Love them both, but if we are all being honest with ourselves, Fran was one decent tourney run away from passing Mr. Davis as the greatest in school history. He had many opportunities with many good teams and just...didn't...do it.
 
I wonder if DeVries would have been smart enough to get an 'Iowa' clause put into his WV contract?

What are the chances Iowa has always been his dream job, as it is with many others? Coaches do that and with good reason. Think about it, like many of us, he grew up a Hawk fan. He has the famous brother that was an All-American Hawkeye. Didn't he coach at City High? I think he coached Matt Gatens there.
If you were WV would you hire a midmajor coach who contractually told you he preferred to be at another school whose coach was in his 60s and whose attendance was being doubled by the women's program? Come on.
 
Not sure what his buyout is, but DeVries turned down a raise and extension this week. WV fans (not sure what they know) say he wants the Iowa job. Also, with tinfoil hats on, say that Tucker isn't hurt but is being held out with hopes of getting an extra year to play at Iowa. In their eyes, Darian is already in Iowa.
Dang I hadn't heard that. Being offered that by the school after 1 yr (hell not even after it's smack dab in the middle of his first yr) is the school acknowledging that they have 1. A hot commodity on their hands and 2. that they underpaid him to start with. I can see their fan base feeling that type of way over it all. The dots all connect to that he'd like to be Iowa's coach. I'm just not so sure the timing of everything with the financials being what they are will be conducive to making that happen. But maybe...

My guess is after the season Beth is going to have a sit down with Fran and they'll hash out what it takes for him to walk away on relatively good terms. Be it Fran flexes and forces Beth to payout everything he's got coming or not is the main X factor. He could surprise me and take less but honestly he doesn't have a reason to. I don't see him taking another job and leaving on his own accord.

My guess is he'll take the $ he's got coming move to Indy to watch his youngest hoop at Butler next yr. Maybe he finds another job a couple yrs down the road if he's still got the itch but it wouldn't be a high profile one.
 
I wonder if DeVries would have been smart enough to get an 'Iowa' clause put into his WV contract?

What are the chances Iowa has always been his dream job, as it is with many others? Coaches do that and with good reason. Think about it, like many of us, he grew up a Hawk fan. He has the famous brother that was an All-American Hawkeye. Didn't he coach at City High? I think he coached Matt Gatens there.
That sort of thing I would think only happens with coaches that have some clout to them. For lack of a better example say Alford woulda put that into his contract for being able to go to Indiana (obviously he never seemed to have that ambition) while he was at Iowa, NM or any of his stops since.

Now a coaches agent approaching the school with those sort of 'demands' could be taken a few different ways. Brushed off with an F that if you want to come here we aren't doing that. Or they'd acquiesce to it with whatever buyout number they'd be cool with. Coaches with one foot out the door all the time are usually only going to be catered to by desperate schools.

Does WV fall into that category since Huggins left? Perhaps but I wouldn't think so. That seems like a solid job to me. It's a good enough one that they lured DeVries out there to begin with. Much of college basketball would agree DeVries is a hell of an up and coming coach. They shouldn't have a problem replacing him if he did leave. But who knows. Basketball seems like such a yr to yr thing now
 
Where in the actual F are you getting $300-400 million dollars? Pinnacle Bank Arena in Omaha cost $180 million to build an entire brand new arena from scratch. Good god man.

I heard 300-400 million from reputable sources on multiple occasions. I didn’t pull that number out of thin air. So I did a deep dive into the usual suspects trying to a find a tweet, quote or something to verify what I heard.

Kakert
Dochterman
Trent Condon
Lestikow

Went through all these guys and I couldn’t find anything to verify what I heard, so if I come off as a crazy person, so be it. Personally, I thought the number was a little high, but it was coming out off other peoples’ mouths so I went with it. I know adding suites will be a big part of it and if 300 million is the going rate I wouldn’t know.

Bottom line, I wish I remembered who spitted out those numbers so I could put a name on it, but I can’t. I don’t want to guess without verifying it first.
 
I heard 300-400 million from reputable sources on multiple occasions. I didn’t pull that number out of thin air. So I did a deep dive into the usual suspects trying to a find a tweet, quote or something to verify what I heard.

Kakert
Dochterman
Trent Condon
Lestikow

Went through all these guys and I couldn’t find anything to verify what I heard, so if I come off as a crazy person, so be it. Personally, I thought the number was a little high, but it was coming out off other peoples’ mouths so I went with it. I know adding suites will be a big part of it and if 300 million is the going rate I wouldn’t know.

Bottom line, I wish I remembered who spitted out those numbers so I could put a name on it, but I can’t. I don’t want to guess without verifying it first.
There is no way $300 million would go to renovations whatsoever. Liestikow’s article even says “tens of millions."

It doesn’t take being an accountant to see that $200 million would buy you a brand new full arena. That’s like saying someone was going to spend $75,000 on a new engine for their ‘06 Camry. Makes no sense.
 
Fry, I am a Fran fan, but the banging on Mr. Davis is a bit much. Yes, he inherited his best team from Raveling and damn near made it to the Final Four. That just tells me he was a better bench coach than a recruiter. Yes, he liked to golf and I do believe Fran was more of a grinder. But, Mr. Davis had a long career and consistently got the Hawks to the Dance. He played an exciting brand of basketball and attendance was a lot better under him than Fran. I get that is not all Fran's fault. That said, Mr. Davis was more fan friendly than Fran. Fran is very cerebral and quick, but he aint warm and fuzzy. Mr. Davis was huggable. You know that is the truth.

And, let's not forget in his final season, when he was a lame duck coach and everyone knew it, he led his team to the Sweet 16 again, something Fran has never done in his entire career.

Love them both, but if we are all being honest with ourselves, Fran was one decent tourney run away from passing Mr. Davis as the greatest in school history. He had many opportunities with many good teams and just...didn't...do it.
I just think people compare Davis and Fran not considering that the environment was 100 times easier during Davis’ run. No NIL to contend with, recruiting was way easier and more regional (even before NIL).

Big Ten wasn't what it is now at all.

Fran has done more with less than what Davis had in my opinion.
 
Fry, I am a Fran fan, but the banging on Mr. Davis is a bit much. Yes, he inherited his best team from Raveling and damn near made it to the Final Four. That just tells me he was a better bench coach than a recruiter. Yes, he liked to golf and I do believe Fran was more of a grinder. But, Mr. Davis had a long career and consistently got the Hawks to the Dance. He played an exciting brand of basketball and attendance was a lot better under him than Fran. I get that is not all Fran's fault. That said, Mr. Davis was more fan friendly than Fran. Fran is very cerebral and quick, but he aint warm and fuzzy. Mr. Davis was huggable. You know that is the truth.

And, let's not forget in his final season, when he was a lame duck coach and everyone knew it, he led his team to the Sweet 16 again, something Fran has never done in his entire career.

Love them both, but if we are all being honest with ourselves, Fran was one decent tourney run away from passing Mr. Davis as the greatest in school history. He had many opportunities with many good teams and just...didn't...do it.
I agree with this post, with the caveat that the brand of ball Mr. Davis played would probably not be as successful in the modern BTen. Back in the day, Iowa could count on a handful of BTen wins because of their press alone. Northwestern would literally have trouble crossing midcourt vs the Hawks on most possessions. Those days are long gone: every school has quick, athletic PGs and athletes, which is why so few teams press anymore -- you're as likely to give up an easy basket as get a turnover.
 
How safe is Thad Matta at Butler? During his own playing career he started for two years at Butler then eventually became head coach before going to Ohio St. He didn't last at OSU and now finds himself back at Butler.

Just a couple weeks ago Butler was in last place in the Big East. Now I see they are on a 3 game win streak but still 3rd from last place. They have a losing record so unless they can continue that win streak they probably aren't going to the past season. Matta is 57.

What are the coaching challenges at Butler? Can they compete in the Big East? Do they have their NIL house in order?

I watched the end of the Creighton/St Johns game over the weekend, playing for first place in the Big East. McDermott has done a great job keeping the Blue Jays competitive in a tough conference. Then I got to thinking about Butler and how hard is it for them to compete in that conference? I'm guessing it's tough. If Matta were to get shown the door what happens to the Mcaffreys? Does Connor get the boot? Does Jack stay there? I'd say there's no guarantee the McCaffrey family keeps its Indy foothold. Could that factor into Fran's decision making?
 
I just think people compare Davis and Fran not considering that the environment was 100 times easier during Davis’ run. No NIL to contend with, recruiting was way easier and more regional (even before NIL).

Fran has done more with less than what Davis had in my opinion.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Big Ten basketball in the 1980s and early 90s was shark infested waters.

Tom Davis ran a clean program, and yet was pretty goddamn competitive with teams that were bought and paid for (like Michigan's Fab Five).

He also would have won Iowa's only Big Ten title in a 45 year span had Minnesota not put together a championship team via massive fraud.

Davis also had to deal with Bobby Knight and Gene Keady, two of college basketball's greatest coaches in history who had their programs at their peak during the 80s.

And let's not forget about the Bruce Pearl situation, which got Davis blackballed from Chicago area recruiting. You can argue Pearl did or didn't do the right thing, but the greater point is Iowa wasn't cheating and Illinois/Jimmy Collins/Blazer and cash was the type of uphill recruiting climb they faced in the 80s.

Yeah, NIL is a huge pain in the ass, but Davis didn't have it easy.
 
Fry, I am a Fran fan, but the banging on Mr. Davis is a bit much. Yes, he inherited his best team from Raveling and damn near made it to the Final Four. That just tells me he was a better bench coach than a recruiter. Yes, he liked to golf and I do believe Fran was more of a grinder. But, Mr. Davis had a long career and consistently got the Hawks to the Dance. He played an exciting brand of basketball and attendance was a lot better under him than Fran. I get that is not all Fran's fault. That said, Mr. Davis was more fan friendly than Fran. Fran is very cerebral and quick, but he aint warm and fuzzy. Mr. Davis was huggable. You know that is the truth.

And, let's not forget in his final season, when he was a lame duck coach and everyone knew it, he led his team to the Sweet 16 again, something Fran has never done in his entire career.

Love them both, but if we are all being honest with ourselves, Fran was one decent tourney run away from passing Mr. Davis as the greatest in school history. He had many opportunities with many good teams and just...didn't...do it.
I'm with you KC. I like both Fran and Davis. I think they've actually had remarkably similar tenures. If you remove the first 2 or 3 years for each (which you could argue they weren't completely responsible for), I think it is really difficult to figure out who was better.

Fran gets credit for guys like the Murrays, but Davis deserves just as much praise for identifying players like Ryan Bowen.

Something that gets overlooked, too...Iowa high school basketball is SO much better now than when Davis was coach. It sucks we lost elite players to Kansas, but we're talking KANSAS basketball in the 1990s.

Davis had some pretty high profile pulls with Ray Thompson, Acie Earl, Kingsbury, Kenyon Murray, Street, Russ Millard, Settles, Ricky Davis, Dean Oliver etc....he didn't win every recruiting battle but it's revisionist history to say Iowa didn't get players under him. I think people also forget the big time transfers who were attracted to his style. Matt Bullard, Andre Woolridge, Sam Okey...
 
Where in the actual F are you getting $300-400 million dollars? Pinnacle Bank Arena in Omaha cost $180 million to build an entire brand new arena from scratch. Good god man.
I laughed when I saw that too. 400 million? You could implode Carver, and rebuild it twice for that. She wants to take out the top 10 rows and make "luxury" boxes. Fry, we could knock that out with some day workers in a 3-day weekend!
I just think people compare Davis and Fran not considering that the environment was 100 times easier during Davis’ run. No NIL to contend with, recruiting was way easier and more regional (even before NIL).

Big Ten wasn't what it is now at all.

Fran has done more with less than what Davis had in my opinion.
I agree, but every coach in their respective eras played under the same rules and conditions. The tournament size has roughly stayed the same for both eras. NIL has only been a thing for two years so that is not a fair excuse. Conference expansion has not really been a big thing until this season. The reality is that Mr. Davis had modest to good tournament success and Fran has not. Like it or lump it, March Madness success is how most MBB coaches are judged. Fran has to own that. He has had many chances and has not gotten past the first weekend.
 
I'm with you KC. I like both Fran and Davis. I think they've actually had remarkably similar tenures. If you remove the first 2 or 3 years for each (which you could argue they weren't completely responsible for), I think it is really difficult to figure out who was better.

Fran gets credit for guys like the Murrays, but Davis deserves just as much praise for identifying players like Ryan Bowen.

Something that gets overlooked, too...Iowa high school basketball is SO much better now than when Davis was coach. It sucks we lost elite players to Kansas, but we're talking KANSAS basketball in the 1990s.

Davis had some pretty high profile pulls with Ray Thompson, Acie Earl, Kingsbury, Kenyon Murray, Street, Russ Millard, Settles, Ricky Davis, Dean Oliver etc....he didn't win every recruiting battle but it's revisionist history to say Iowa didn't get players under him. I think people also forget the big time transfers who were attracted to his style. Matt Bullard, Andre Woolridge, Sam Okey...
Their tenures are remarkably similar except for tournament success. That's like saying, both of those chicks are equally pretty except one of them has a really ugly face and the other does not.
 
Okay, Fry. Every time I try and type in "D R. TOM," the system switches it to "Mr. Davis." What sort of voodoo Admin shit are you pulling there, mister?
 
There is no way $300 million would go to renovations whatsoever. Liestikow’s article even says “tens of millions."

It doesn’t take being an accountant to see that $200 million would buy you a brand new full arena. That’s like saying someone was going to spend $75,000 on a new engine for their ‘06 Camry. Makes no sense.

There is no way $300 million would go to renovations whatsoever. Liestikow’s article even says “tens of millions."

It doesn’t take being an accountant to see that $200 million would buy you a brand new full arena. That’s like saying someone was going to spend $75,000 on a new engine for their ‘06 Camry. Makes no sense.

I heard 300-400 million from multiple people who cover the program pretty closely. It seems high to me as well, but they know more than I do.

We both know Carver isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon. Pure speculation on my part, but Goetz’s big picture plan for men’s basketball will be tied into renovations to Carver. If this website is still around in the next few months, we will get a number by the Fall, we will see if it is closer to 180 or 300.

Feel free to bump this thread either way in 6 months, I’m comfortable regurgitating what people “in the know” have stated. Everything points to you being right and me being wrong(bad grammar on my part). I’m just shrugging shoulders and thinking 300 million is a little high, but it also could be the going rate.
 
I heard 300-400 million from multiple people who cover the program pretty closely. It seems high to me as well, but they know more than I do.

We both know Carver isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon. Pure speculation on my part, but Goetz’s big picture plan for men’s basketball will be tied into renovations to Carver. If this website is still around in the next few months, we will get a number by the Fall, we will see if it is closer to 180 or 300.

Feel free to bump this thread either way in 6 months, I’m comfortable regurgitating what people “in the know” have stated. Everything points to you being right and me being wrong(bad grammar on my part). I’m just shrugging shoulders and thinking 300 million is a little high, but it also could be the going rate.

However much it would cost to renovate CHA, it sounds expensive.
 
I heard 300-400 million from multiple people who cover the program pretty closely. It seems high to me as well, but they know more than I do.

We both know Carver isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon. Pure speculation on my part, but Goetz’s big picture plan for men’s basketball will be tied into renovations to Carver. If this website is still around in the next few months, we will get a number by the Fall, we will see if it is closer to 180 or 300.

Feel free to bump this thread either way in 6 months, I’m comfortable regurgitating what people “in the know” have stated. Everything points to you being right and me being wrong(bad grammar on my part). I’m just shrugging shoulders and thinking 300 million is a little high, but it also could be the going rate.
Have you been to Kinnick in the past few years?

The entire north endzone are was torn out, all new seating was put in with a separate upper deck, a mid level club seating area was put in, and a brand new multi-level indoor/outdoor club level was put in with premium viewing, standalone food/drinks/restrooms. Glass walls top to bottom inside and out. Also added a new sky walk. Completely redesigned and reconstructed the entire north end of Kinnick stadium from field level to the street outside. The area that was redone is wider than Carver Hawkeye Stadium is long. There were 10,000 seats installed which is almost the entire capacity of CHA. 20,000 sq ft lounge. 10 lounge boxes.

That total cost of the project was $89 million dollars.

$300 million dollars is a BS number. The reason you can't find any sources who said it is because no one said it. It's okay to mis-hear things people say or add an extra zero by mistake, I've done it myself plenty of times. But $300 million dollars for a renovation is complete bullshit when you could tear down Carver and build a brand new arena from scratch for half that money. What you maybe read was $30 million dollars (minus a zero). Sorry.
 
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