Can't Iowa Afford To Take More Chances On Offense?

[CP87]

I do agree with that, but it's just not what I said. I said they've been ranked in 5 out of the last 6 years, because again, they have been. A lot can contribute to that would you not agree? Do you think sometimes a team can be a top 25 caliber team in Sept and Oct and then due to injuries, schedule, luck etc., NOT be a top 25 team come November or vice versa. Teams get better as well. A lot of years, Iowa has been pretty bad early on, to end the season ranked.

I typically go off what they were ranked at the time of the game. You named an outlier in Indiana, but over all, if you were ranked in the top 25 at some point of the season, you were considered a decent foe.

The one caveat I would include is pre-season rankings (like Indiana in 2018) are pretty much garbage. But a team that is ranked in Week 6, and then falls out of the rankings because you beat them, is likely a good team.

 

[CP87]

Absolutely and unequivocally no. You have to score points nearly every drive (especially now with the clock rules), have players that can score every single play from anywhere on the field and finally, a coach and coordinator that have absolute guts and feel for the game offensively. And that’s not even talking about having a top defense that limits top 10 teams. KF teams don’t measure up in any of these areas and it’s been proven repeatedly. He’s the tom davis of football. Perfect for iowa and the personalities and risk tolerance of the administrations, board of regents and top boosters. They don’t want the kind of coach that checks all of those boxes

You are describing a National Championship team, not a Top-10 team. Most teams in the top-10 have flaws and shortcomings, just like Iowa.

 

[dagdaj]

By almost every metric of football value, the University of Iowa should not be good, or at least not very good in football. We are the second smallest state, and the Bugeaters overcome their lack of population by the national BB reputation that has carried over since late in the last century. If all the states have the same ratio of 4 and 5* players, Iowa will always be behind. Pennsylvania, Ohio St. and Michigan are nearly three times as large as Iowa. Long time cellar dwellers like Illinois and Minnesota should be better than Iowa. Now we have the large to massive populations of the west coast as direct competitors.

Iowa is a small school by Big Ten Standards. That directly impacts fundraising because the graduates form the donor pool of the near and long term. They are the guys who become executives that make not only medium to large personal donations but can influence corporate donors' decisions. Take the annual disparity and multiply that by roughly 50 years of donations.
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100% behind this. Also, Nebraska has just one D1 team. And also....a not insignificant part of KC is in Missouri. Even if you give all of KCMO to Mizzou, they still have a bit of a higher ratio.

I posted this last year with 2022 data.
Basically, other than WY, UT, and ID....Iowa has the lowest (sometimes BY FAR) ratio of population to statewide roster spots. I include the % of in-state players as well, because that's a factor. Across all NCAA football (all divisions), the average is ~65%. Take out FL, TX and it goes up. That's a relevant data point.

State|# of D1, power 5 (or close enough teams, and the % of in-state players)|ratio of population to D1 (mostly power 5) roster spots.

Sampling of Big 10

IA (2 teams, 77%)-13125:1
NE (1 team, 70%)-16033:1
MN (1 team, 70%)-46667:1
WI (1 team, 57%)-44833:1
MI (2 teams, 70%)-41558:1
OH (2 teams if we go ahead and count Cincy, 64%)-48667:1
PA (2 teams, 74%)-50000:1
IL (2 teams, 49%)-53000:1
IN (2 teams, not counting Notre Dame. I argue they're "private, aren't in the power 5 and 94.03% of students are out of state, they don't count, 68%)-27904:1

Others for reference, I discount KS cause KC Missouri.
FL (4 teams, 27%)-44166:1
TX (I went with 7 teams, sure, they're not all P5 but...you know...SMU at one time, 54%)-34095:1
KS (2 teams and I'm not including ANY Missouri population in Kansas City, add even half that in and KS has it easier, 70%)-12137:1
GA is like 10 million population with GA and GA Tech.
KY, AL....4.5 million, 2 schools

Only states with a lower ratio than Iowa are: Wyoming, Utah, Idaho and I'll choose Iowa's results any day.
Nebraska is really the ONLY comparison. And it only works out in their favor if you're older than 45.

I will argue to my dying days, that Iowa football has consistently punched above it's weight class, other than some brief periods. Also, what if Hayden was never hired, and wasn't who he was? We'd all get a lot more work done instead of posting here. Game threads would be 2 pages long. Our leaves would always be raked in the fall. And my blood pressure would be 28 points lower for several months out of the year.

 

[Chickenlounge]

Hayden’s teams were very exciting offensively. He was credited for moving the conference from a three yards and cloud of dust to a more open conference offensively. He beat Michigan and ohio st while playing them annually instead of just every few years. And he coached many a halftime comeback. Sent all kinds of skill positional players to the NFL

Hayden was 3-12-1 against tOSU. He wasn't exactly blowing the doors off the Buckeyes.

 

[Teddy]

Agree with most of this. But I disagree on resources. Iowa absolutely has the facilities and resources. That’s the strength of the program. Don’t get the skill position athletes and don’t have the coaching in this area if we did

Our facilities have improved significantly in recent years. Look at the inside of the Oklahoma or Alabama facilities. Opulent.

Great to have another poster that understands the explanatory nature of the numbers.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Hayden was 3-12-1 against tOSU. He wasn't exactly blowing the doors off the Buckeyes.

He won at Columbus twice. JoePa also only won at C-bus twice. I know Dantonio won there once. I know Harbaugh has won there once. Bo Schembechler prolly won there a few times. Ferentz has never won there. Winning two times in road games at C-bus is a pretty difficult task, especially if you aren't the coach at Michigan. I don't think a team from the West has won at C-bus ever since they did the east-west split. To my recollection the last team from the west to even win at C-bus was Illinois back in 2007 when they had Juice Williams at QB. Maybe Wisconsin snuck in a win somewhere, but even their best ever team with Russell Wilson at QB didn't win there. Point is, getting 3 wins against Ohio is a helluva feat.

 

[dagdaj]

I know I'm way off topic from the original post, I'm just going with the flow.
Also, the preseason rose colored glasses, pride thing kicking in.

I wasn't a Hawk fan (I didn't know diddly about Iowa until '89)....but I was at least alive the last time Iowa was ranked #1.

Of all the Big 10 schools that have ever achieved the #1 ranking at any point in time, I've only been alive for 5 of them, including Iowa. And I am old enough to have to grunt every time I get up out of a chair. And with the exception of one of them, it's been so long that phrase "low T" just meant lowercase "t". I mean, I wasn't even wearing cargo shorts and New Balance shoes the last time any Big 10 team not named OSU was ranked #1. And in fact, I will very likely have had my second regularly scheduled colonoscopy before OSU is ranked #1 again.

Big 10 team-years since achieving a #1 ranking at any point

OSU-4
Nebraska-20
Michigan-26
Penn State-27
Iowa-38
Purdue-55
Michigan St.-57
Northwestern-61
Minnesota-63
Maryland-68
Wisconsin-71

I forgot the CA teams. But...screw them. They're not in yet.

I know this doesn't tell much of a story. But, I've seen Rose Bowls. BCS games. #2 ranked Iowa teams. Legit Heisman contenders. Big wins. Blowouts of OSU. Wins on the road at a PSU white out. And I've seen the Hawkeyes crush the hopes of many Wisconson/Michigan/Michigan St. teams who had climbed inside the top 10 and were looking for more.

Yes. I'd love to see a playoff game. Or, dare I say, a national title. Even though I think the national title prominence is longterm detrimental to NCAA football as a whole. But, I just can't find a way to complain. Except a couple Saturday's a year. And occasionally like last year, every Saturday. I do believe the team is at an inflection point.

 

[Gibsonian]

Our best offensive weapon is our punter.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Hayden’s teams were very exciting offensively. He was credited for moving the conference from a three yards and cloud of dust to a more open conference offensively. He beat Michigan and ohio st while playing them annually instead of just every few years. And he coached many a halftime comeback. Sent all kinds of skill positional players to the NFL

The record shows that he beat Ohio State two times, but proceed joyfully on.

I replied to a post similar to yours in this thread. I gave Hayden and Bill Snyder plenty of props for revolutionizing the league, and in Snyder's case another league.

It didn't hurt to have a QB like Chuck Long to make it all work. But as I pointed out to the other poster Hayden coached to win first, entertain second.

Few teams were more entertaining on offense than our 1988 team, and Chuck Hartlieb even broke some of Long's records. But kicking and punting sucked, and that team finished 6-4-3 and laid an egg in the Peach Bowl.

 

[BigD]

Our best offensive weapon is our punter.

I thought it was our defense.

 

[oldhawk12]

Hayden and KF are both legends and have done amazing things, but in different ways. Hayden took the program off the scrapheap, approached the job with creativity and joy, and built a consistent winner. He put a lot of guys in the league and got to several Rose Bowls when that was really the only goal.

KF has had several Top 10 finishes, a bunch of bowls, a couple big bowls, has won and almost won the conference title a few times, and has been a consistent winner. You cannot argue with his development skills and his ability to consistently put his players into the league. Indeed, other than a Heisman (and that was a near miss) and WR his players have won just about every individual position award out there.

Both of them have beat Michigan and Ohio State, but not often. Both made their programs nationally relevant. Both kept their programs squarely on that second tier of programs in the Big 10. That all said, KF has done it longer, has not trailed off in his twilight years, and has done so in a much more complicated and competitive college football environment.

I’m not interested in getting into a KF v Hayden pissing match. I am fully comfortable in my opinion that HF was a far better coach in nearly every way. I also love the legacy kf will be leaving. I simply feel one path exceeded the other. That’s my opinion. And as long as we continue having free speech in this country, I’m allowed that as are you.

I hope kf goes 14-0 this year because it will mean he won 10 or 11 where he was favored and then rode the momentum

 

[oldhawk12]

Hayden was 3-12-1 against tOSU. He wasn't exactly blowing the doors off the Buckeyes.

Kf has beaten them twice. Not sure what we are arguing other than HF wasn’t allowed to play in the b10 west and miss the big two most years like kf has. I get kf has no say in this but he most certainly does have a say in the non-conference. This season is yet another example of scheduling four wins in September

 

[oldhawk12]

You are describing a National Championship team, not a Top-10 team. Most teams in the top-10 have flaws and shortcomings, just like Iowa.

We never play them. Most definitely not in the non conference. Those teams are routinely dodged. And when we’ve faced in the off season, in nearly every case, we’ve been exposed

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I’m not interested in getting into a KF v Hayden pissing match. I am fully comfortable in my opinion that HF was a far better coach in nearly every way. I also love the legacy kf will be leaving. I simply feel one path exceeded the other. That’s my opinion. And as long as we continue having free speech in this country, I’m allowed that as are you.

I hope kf goes 14-0 this year because it will mean he won 10 or 11 where he was favored and then rode the momentum

Hayden built the foundation and culture that Kirk was able to continue and he did that, so I get what you are saying. But, in contrast, Kirk has also had to deal with a ton more changes in the landscape of college football compared to what Hayden had to adjust to. I think we need to really put that into perspective and acknowledge that. In addition, Kirk had to coach in an era with social media and fans pretty much being able to voice comments/concerns and bitching much more freely. That shouldn't be overlooked.

So, is it really comparing apples to apples, not in many ways.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I’m not interested in getting into a KF v Hayden pissing match. I am fully comfortable in my opinion that HF was a far better coach in nearly every way. I also love the legacy kf will be leaving. I simply feel one path exceeded the other. That’s my opinion. And as long as we continue having free speech in this country, I’m allowed that as are you.

I hope kf goes 14-0 this year because it will mean he won 10 or 11 where he was favored and then rode the momentum

Well with how the schedule shapes up we'll know early on. PSU is first BIG game we play on the road. If Iowa somehow wins that it's damn near all downhill after that with Wisconsin on the road being the only other tough game we kinda have. I don't think Iowa will win that but we'll get a good idea of how good we'll be. If we can give em a good fight that'd be huge

 

[CP87]

We never play them. Most definitely not in the non conference. Those teams are routinely dodged. And when we’ve faced in the off season, in nearly every case, we’ve been exposed

I am pretty sure there is a substantial history of top-10 teams coming to Kinnick and having a bad time.

Kinnick, where top-5 teams go to die

 

[oldhawk12]

I am pretty sure there is a substantial history of top-10 teams coming to Kinnick and having a bad time.

Kinnick, where top-5 teams go to die

Certainly not (non b10 teams) in the Ferentz era

 

[trj]

I’m not interested in getting into a KF v Hayden pissing match. I am fully comfortable in my opinion that HF was a far better coach in nearly every way. I also love the legacy kf will be leaving. I simply feel one path exceeded the other. That’s my opinion. And as long as we continue having free speech in this country, I’m allowed that as are you.

I hope kf goes 14-0 this year because it will mean he won 10 or 11 where he was favored and then rode the momentum

Your troll game is on fire, dawg. Can you keep this up until ISU basketball season starts in November?

 

[kicker22]

Another tired narrative that some continue to use.

As for "we love to feature our punter" that some continuemto use, how in the hell was the 1981 Rose Bowl team created? Golly Gee it relied on defense, the punting game and field position. Three of our biggest wins that year were 10-7 (Nebraska) 9-7 (Michigan) and 17-7 (Wisconsin with the Rose Bowl on the line)

Maybe too boring for some, but Hayden and crew were determined ro play to their strengths and to win, not necessarily entertain.

Tired narrative maybe and I'm one that loves a defensive battle, but there's absolutely no excuse for the SDST (7-3 win), ISU (10-7 loss), or Illinois (9-6 loss) or even Minnesota (13-10 win) offensive performances last year. We can say what we want about the narrative all we want as I agree that wins and losses are the only thing that matters, but a great defense and special teams needs an offense with a pulse and we've struggled to find one. Defense wins championships, but in order for that defense to do so you have to be able to generate points offensively.

 

[kicker22]

You are describing a National Championship team, not a Top-10 team. Most teams in the top-10 have flaws and shortcomings, just like Iowa.

I wouldn't say our offense has been a flaw or shortcoming. I think that would be an understatement of epic proportions. I would say that an offense (even an average offense) has been what's consistently kept us out of the top 10 conversation as opposed to simply being a flawed team.