Can't Iowa Afford To Take More Chances On Offense?

[Will C]

ISU and Notre Dame are generally over ranked at the beginning of each season. Generally by the end of the season they are down where they belong.

 

[InGoodCo]

I believe ISU has been ranked only once in the season ending Top 25 in the last 6 seasons.
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And Iowa and ISU did not play in 2020 due to Covid.

I didn't say anything about season ending but you are right, they didn't play in 20 and I counted that in my #'s

in 21 they were as high as 7
in 20 they were as high as 8
in 19 they were as high as 21
in 18 they were as high as 18
in 17 they were as high as 14

The point is, save the "they don't play anyone in the OOC" because at least they are challenging themselves and playing a rising rival and the fact that ISU has been good the past several years is a good thing IMO.

 

[kicker22]

They'd be a top 10 team or even top 5 with an average O-line and Offense.

That's just it. I absolutely love our defense and agree that there's a chance to score every snap. But teams can very easily play field position with us as well just as we do with them. Think of how that changes if we get an offense that is capable of putting up points consistently and what the defense can do if opposing teams have to take chances to stay in the game. It only makes our defense that scarier.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Teddy, you are so right. I hope Iowa can keep up with the Jones's moving forward but it's going to take some specail circumstances, leadership that gets a little lucky and they will have to be very creative. I don't think NIL will continue with the collectives long term, or if they do, they won't be the main revenue produceres for players. Investors are already seeing terrible ROI and anyone with any business sense isn't going to just keep dumping money at things that don't produce. You will see that market level out. Iowa stands a chance right now, only because they win....if that goes away, boy.... I don't know. Where does that leave us? Iowa football is in a pretty good place heading into this but who knows which directions things go beyond this season and if I had to bet, like put down money where things go, I am not betting on upper tier (a place Iowa Football has resided in for a lot of time) after things settle.

Iowa's biggest sell to recruits is its consistent winning and developing players and putting them in the NFL. Putting players in the NFL is by far Iowa best playing card. If Iowa ever started to struggle putting players in the NFL at the clip they do now, it wouldn't be good.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

ISU and Notre Dame are generally over ranked at the beginning of each season. Generally by the end of the season they are down where they belong.

OH, I thought you said ISU and Nebraska. My bad!

 

[MelroseHawkins]

That's just it. I absolutely love our defense and agree that there's a chance to score every snap. But teams can very easily play field position with us as well just as we do with them. Think of how that changes if we get an offense that is capable of putting up points consistently and what the defense can do if opposing teams have to take chances to stay in the game. It only makes our defense that scarier.

Also, our D is great until Iowa is forced to chase points. Also, Iowa hasn't had an offense that's been very good at chasing points if they had to in the last few years.

 

[InGoodCo]

Iowa's biggest sell to recruits is its consistent winning and developing players and putting them in the NFL. Putting players in the NFL is by far Iowa best playing card. If Iowa ever started to struggle putting players in the NFL at the clip they do now, it wouldn't be good.

Yes, Iowa is also 3rd in wins in the B1G over the last 5 years behind TOSU and UM - the two schools that have won every title in that same time. The offense has been bad, but the football program, quite good.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I didn't say anything about season ending but you are right, they didn't play in 20 and I counted that in my #'s

in 21 they were as high as 7
in 20 they were as high as 8
in 19 they were as high as 21
in 18 they were as high as 18
in 17 they were as high as 14

The point is, save the "they don't play anyone in the OOC" because at least they are challenging themselves and playing a rising rival and the fact that ISU has been good the past several years is a good thing IMO.

Another tired narrative that some continue to use.

As for "we love to feature our punter" that some continuemto use, how in the hell was the 1981 Rose Bowl team created? Golly Gee it relied on defense, the punting game and field position. Three of our biggest wins that year were 10-7 (Nebraska) 9-7 (Michigan) and 17-7 (Wisconsin with the Rose Bowl on the line)

Maybe too boring for some, but Hayden and crew were determined ro play to their strengths and to win, not necessarily entertain.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Another tired narrative that some continue to use.

As for "we love to feature our punter" that some continuemto use, how in the hell was the 1981 Rose Bowl team created? Golly Gee it relied on defense, the punting game and field position. Three of our biggest wins that year were 10-7 (Nebraska) 9-7 (Michigan) and 17-7 (Wisconsin with the Rose Bowl on the line)

Maybe too boring for some, but Hayden and crew were determined ro play to their strengths and to win, not necessarily entertain.

As I recall, many have stated that Hayden brought some creativity and offensive prowess to the The Big 10 back in the day. Many have commented how innovative he was and how he brought a passing offense. It wasn't just the defense, I think he was wanting to entertain as well.

 

[Northside Hawk]

As I recall, many have stated that Hayden brought some creativity and offensive prowess to the The Big 10 back in the day. Many have commented how innovative he was and how he brought a passing offense. It wasn't just the defense, I think he was wanting to entertain as well.

He wanted to win, hence his famous "scratch where itches" quote. Sometimes he did it the conservative way, sometimes he didn't.

When you have a QB like Chuck Long who could hit a dime with 15-25 yard out routes (and recevers who could run those routes to precision) your going to look like an innovative genius. Being able to hit those passes opens up the entire offense.

To give Hayden, and OC Bill Snyder, their due, they were credited with helping open up what was perceived as a conservative league. Snyder then went on to the old Big Eight, which if anything was seen as an even more conservative league. Both coaches left their mark for sure.

If he entertained for the sake of entertaining, I don't think it was often. He entertained as a means ro winning.

 

[oldhawk12]

We weren’t in the Michigan or ohio st games. Offense or defense. I’m a huge fan of parker and our defense through the years, but our defense isn’t dominant against top 15 teams. And when the offense has near zero ability to score, that’s problematic. And that’s been the knock on ferentz. Outside a very isolated year, even if the defense can compete nationally, the offense doesn’t show up

I’ll give you the fact we stifled them on the ground with just 66 rushing yards. But the 300 through the air supports my point. They scored 54 points that day including 26 in the first half. The game was never in jeopardy.

I’m a huge fan of the iowa defense under phil parker. He’s a major factor in Iowa’s success during the Ferentz era & certainly since norm. But to say we have a national title level defense during this era is simply not true. There are numerous games through the years that support this

 

[CP87]

I didn't say anything about season ending but you are right, they didn't play in 20 and I counted that in my #'s

in 21 they were as high as 7
in 20 they were as high as 8
in 19 they were as high as 21
in 18 they were as high as 18
in 17 they were as high as 14

The point is, save the "they don't play anyone in the OOC" because at least they are challenging themselves and playing a rising rival and the fact that ISU has been good the past several years is a good thing IMO.

I think it makes much more sense to focus on "ranked at the time" vs. "ranked at the end of the year." When a team only plays 12 games, and you beat a team in one of those games, you have dramatically decreased it odds of being ranked. Sure. that isn't the case for a top-10 team, but one loss is often the difference between a team being #20 or out of the rankings.

You can argue that end-of-year is a better measure of the overall quality of the team, and that is the case sometimes (think the 2018 Indiana team that started out ranked #17 but was actually garbage).

But sometimes a team deserves every bit of its ranking early in the year, and then circumstances dictate a fall out of the rankings. Think about 2010 Iowa that started at #9 and ended the season unranked. They were a damn salty team until their interior OL, LBs, and RBs were decimated by injury. If you lost to them early in the season (like #22 PSU did by 3 TDs), you didn't lose to an unranked team because that is how Iowa finished, you lost to the #15 team in the country because they were every bit of that during week 5 in the season.

 

[SCHawkeye2]

I didn't say anything about season ending but you are right, they didn't play in 20 and I counted that in my #'s

in 21 they were as high as 7
in 20 they were as high as 8
in 19 they were as high as 21
in 18 they were as high as 18
in 17 they were as high as 14

The point is, save the "they don't play anyone in the OOC" because at least they are challenging themselves and playing a rising rival and the fact that ISU has been good the past several years is a good thing IMO.

An appearance in a pre-season Top 25 or early weeks does not bestow Top 25 status for the rest of the season.
Indiana was #17 when Iowa beat them in the first game of 2021 season. By your standards that was a Top 25 ‘win’ despite the fact they subsequently went 0-9 in the B10?

 

[InGoodCo]

An appearance in a pre-season Top 25 or early weeks does not bestow Top 25 status for the rest of the season.
Indiana was #17 when Iowa beat them in the first game of 2021 season. By your standards that was a Top 25 ‘win’ despite the fact they subsequently went 0-9 in the B10?

I do agree with that, but it's just not what I said. I said they've been ranked in 5 out of the last 6 years, because again, they have been. A lot can contribute to that would you not agree? Do you think sometimes a team can be a top 25 caliber team in Sept and Oct and then due to injuries, schedule, luck etc., NOT be a top 25 team come November or vice versa. Teams get better as well. A lot of years, Iowa has been pretty bad early on, to end the season ranked.

I typically go off what they were ranked at the time of the game. You named an outlier in Indiana, but over all, if you were ranked in the top 25 at some point of the season, you were considered a decent foe.

 

[oldhawk12]

They'd be a top 10 team or even top 5 with an average O-line and Offense.

Absolutely and unequivocally no. You have to score points nearly every drive (especially now with the clock rules), have players that can score every single play from anywhere on the field and finally, a coach and coordinator that have absolute guts and feel for the game offensively. And that’s not even talking about having a top defense that limits top 10 teams. KF teams don’t measure up in any of these areas and it’s been proven repeatedly. He’s the tom davis of football. Perfect for iowa and the personalities and risk tolerance of the administrations, board of regents and top boosters. They don’t want the kind of coach that checks all of those boxes

 

[oldhawk12]

By almost every metric of football value, the University of Iowa should not be good, or at least not very good in football. We are the second smallest state, and the Bugeaters overcome their lack of population by the national BB reputation that has carried over since late in the last century. If all the states have the same ratio of 4 and 5* players, Iowa will always be behind. Pennsylvania, Ohio St. and Michigan are nearly three times as large as Iowa. Long time cellar dwellers like Illinois and Minnesota should be better than Iowa. Now we have the large to massive populations of the west coast as direct competitors.

Iowa is a small school by Big Ten Standards. That directly impacts fundraising because the graduates form the donor pool of the near and long term. They are the guys who become executives that make not only medium to large personal donations but can influence corporate donors' decisions. Take the annual disparity and multiply that by roughly 50 years of donations.

Size also means fewer rich people for very large personal donations and very large corporate donations. There aren't nearly as many mega-corporations to make multimillion dollar donations in Iowa because we only have one real city, and it is not a large city. I'm hopeful that the new AD will prioritize marketing in DSM. The last guy sure didn't. DSM and its burbs are where nearly a third of the state live, most of the individually wealthy reside, and most of the large corps exist. This problem only gets worse when the west coast arrives. Oregon has a single donor that could field a full future NFL team with its NIL money. USC has been growing its donor base since Marion Morrison was still in the silents.

Lack of size means fewer viewers and streamers. These mergers are designed to bring more of both but not to Iowa. We will see audience spikes when we play some BB schools, but those viewership spikes are not coming from Iowa fans and are much more like the BBs regular audience. We sell less apparel. Although, not unique to Iowa, we also have lousy weather, too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. The population is shifting south and southwest, although California is losing population share but not fast enough to matter for football purposes.

Iowa has nothing going for it as a P5 competitor. We can occasionally build and 10 or 10+ win team but we lack the resources to sustain that level. So, the question on the Ferentz methodology of offensive caution and great special teams and defensive play is really simple. Have we won more games against conference competition by playing it safe and slow on offensive, dominate special teams and defense and win than we have lost.

I would say we have won far more games with that philosophy than Iowa has lost. Even last year.

​

Agree with most of this. But I disagree on resources. Iowa absolutely has the facilities and resources. That’s the strength of the program. Don’t get the skill position athletes and don’t have the coaching in this area if we did

 

[oldhawk12]

Another tired narrative that some continue to use.

As for "we love to feature our punter" that some continuemto use, how in the hell was the 1981 Rose Bowl team created? Golly Gee it relied on defense, the punting game and field position. Three of our biggest wins that year were 10-7 (Nebraska) 9-7 (Michigan) and 17-7 (Wisconsin with the Rose Bowl on the line)

Maybe too boring for some, but Hayden and crew were determined ro play to their strengths and to win, not necessarily entertain.

Hayden’s teams were very exciting offensively. He was credited for moving the conference from a three yards and cloud of dust to a more open conference offensively. He beat Michigan and ohio st while playing them annually instead of just every few years. And he coached many a halftime comeback. Sent all kinds of skill positional players to the NFL

 

[Will C]

I lived in Dallas when Hayden coached North Texas and SMU. His offenses were really fun to watch and full of surprises. Getting him to Iowa was a dream come true.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Hayden’s teams were very exciting offensively. He was credited for moving the conference from a three yards and cloud of dust to a more open conference offensively. He beat Michigan and ohio st while playing them annually instead of just every few years. And he coached many a halftime comeback. Sent all kinds of skill positional players to the NFL

Hayden and KF are both legends and have done amazing things, but in different ways. Hayden took the program off the scrapheap, approached the job with creativity and joy, and built a consistent winner. He put a lot of guys in the league and got to several Rose Bowls when that was really the only goal.

KF has had several Top 10 finishes, a bunch of bowls, a couple big bowls, has won and almost won the conference title a few times, and has been a consistent winner. You cannot argue with his development skills and his ability to consistently put his players into the league. Indeed, other than a Heisman (and that was a near miss) and WR his players have won just about every individual position award out there.

Both of them have beat Michigan and Ohio State, but not often. Both made their programs nationally relevant. Both kept their programs squarely on that second tier of programs in the Big 10. That all said, KF has done it longer, has not trailed off in his twilight years, and has done so in a much more complicated and competitive college football environment.

 

[CP87]

I do agree with that, but it's just not what I said. I said they've been ranked in 5 out of the last 6 years, because again, they have been. A lot can contribute to that would you not agree? Do you think sometimes a team can be a top 25 caliber team in Sept and Oct and then due to injuries, schedule, luck etc., NOT be a top 25 team come November or vice versa. Teams get better as well. A lot of years, Iowa has been pretty bad early on, to end the season ranked.

I typically go off what they were ranked at the time of the game. You named an outlier in Indiana, but over all, if you were ranked in the top 25 at some point of the season, you were considered a decent foe.

That 2009 team that almost lost to UNI was not a top-10 team...but the Orange Bowl victors were.