Can this please end the Lebron-Jordan talk?

It's not even about the lack of scoring. If he'd gone 3-18 and just couldn't hit a shot it would be a different story (kind of like Dirk's night, which was awful until the last 5 minutes). It's about the fact that LeBron barely touched the ball on any of the key possessions in the 4th quarter. If they were using him as a decoy and running a beautiful offense around him, then sure, I'd say he's making a noble sacrifice. But their offense was brutal, someone needed to step up and make a shot, and for whatever reason Mario Chalmers was more willing to do so than LeBron was. That's troubling. Yesterday his entire game was based around throwing outlet passes and dunking at the end of fast breaks. He was probably the 6th best guy on the floor last night, after Wade, Nowitzki, Bosh, Terry, and Chandler. Show me another big Finals game where Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Barkley, Duncan, etc. would have settled for being the 6th best guy on the court.

And don't talk about defense, either. LeBron was so far from the ball in the last minutes on both ends of the floor it was a joke.
 
olivecourt said:
It's not even about the lack of scoring. If he'd gone 3-18 and just couldn't hit a shot it would be a different story (kind of like Dirk's night, which was awful until the last 5 minutes). It's about the fact that LeBron barely touched the ball on any of the key possessions in the 4th quarter. If they were using him as a decoy and running a beautiful offense around him, then sure, I'd say he's making a noble sacrifice. But their offense was brutal, someone needed to step up and make a shot, and for whatever reason Mario Chalmers was more willing to do so than LeBron was. That's troubling. Yesterday his entire game was based around throwing outlet passes and dunking at the end of fast breaks. He was probably the 6th best guy on the floor last night, after Wade, Nowitzki, Bosh, Terry, and Chandler. Show me another big Finals game where Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Barkley, Duncan, etc. would have settled for being the 6th best guy on the court.

And don't talk about defense, either. LeBron was so far from the ball in the last minutes on both ends of the floor it was a joke.
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There were times when I literally had to search the court to see if he was even on it. Listening to the radio this morning, Herd and DP said the same thing. He didn't just have a bad game, he disappeared.
 
DexterMorgan said:
sure didn't. Show me who's saying Lebron is as good as Jordan so i can call them an idiot.
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If its in a movie, I can't be the only one hearing it.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_wnAUWpoJA]YouTube - ‪It's the Only Argument I Need, Shawn!‬‏[/ame]
 
Yeah I like how people are talking about the reason is Wade needs to exploit the miss match with him and Kid. But last night Terry and Stevens were guarding lebron and he still wasn't doing anything.

Lebron is special but he just doesn't seem like a team player at some moments.

Wade has been playing incredible, with his block on Chandler I can't help but think regardless of the match up that Wade is more important to Heat than Lebron.
 
Lebron has been the best player on the Heat for most of the season, but he doesn't seem to "bring it" every night. There are nights when Wade or Bosh look like the best player on that team and the Heat funnel their offense through one of those guys.

That was never the case with the Bulls and Jordan. Jordan was the guy even when he was being triple teamed.

Jordan was a very good all around player, but he was so electric on offense that people didn't pay attention to his defense. He made the all defensive team at least a few times I believe.

Jordan just had that "it" factor that you only see once in a great while. Tiger had it, Lance Armstrong had it, Joe Montana had it....it's their desire to win that makes those guys who they are...lebron hasn't shown it yet.
 
talkinhawks said:
Jordan was a very good all around player, but he was so electric on offense that people didn't pay attention to his defense. He made the all defensive team at least a few times I believe.

.
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Jordan made first-team all-defense nine times. He was defensive player of the year in 1988. People noticed.

To his credit, LeBron has been first-team all-defense three times including this year. Still a ways to go, though...
 
olivecourt said:
Jordan made first-team all-defense nine times. He was defensive player of the year in 1988. People noticed.

To his credit, LeBron has been first-team all-defense three times including this year. Still a ways to go, though...
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I understand that the media recognizes Jordan's defense. To the casual NBA observer they think Jordan, they think tongue out flying down the lane for a monster dunk. His offense definitely overshadowed his defense in the eyes of most observers.
 
Again, we're comparing Lebron (still young with a great future in front of him) and comparing him to MJ, who has completed his career and set the bar as the greatest the sport has seen. I'm not saying Lebron is better than Jordan by any means, but let's give Lebron time to let his career play out before we have this conversation that way there is a common ground. Especially when comparing championships. Not fair to hold MJ's 6 above Lebron's head when (correct me if I'm wrong) Jordan was older than Lebron currently is when he won the first one.
 
kicker22 said:
Again, we're comparing Lebron (still young with a great future in front of him) and comparing him to MJ, who has completed his career and set the bar as the greatest the sport has seen. I'm not saying Lebron is better than Jordan by any means, but let's give Lebron time to let his career play out before we have this conversation that way there is a common ground. Especially when comparing championships. Not fair to hold MJ's 6 above Lebron's head when (correct me if I'm wrong) Jordan was older than Lebron currently is when he won the first one.
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Age wise, yes. But Jordan won a title in year 7 I believe.

Here is a telling stat. I think Dirk has 44 pts in the 4th quarters, Lebron has like 11.
 
Definitely understand what you're saying, but I just don't think that it's fair to compare Lebron 9at the midpoint of his career, to Jordan based on lifetime achievements.
 
kicker22 said:
Definitely understand what you're saying, but I just don't think that it's fair to compare Lebron 9at the midpoint of his career, to Jordan based on lifetime achievements.
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I am pro-Jordan in this debate, however, it does seem everyone is trying to define his legacy after every game half way through his career.
 
trj said:
I am pro-Jordan in this debate, however, it does seem everyone is trying to define his legacy after every game half way through his career.
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I think it has to do with the fact that no matter what happens in the rest of LeBron's career, that Game 4 is always going to be a black mark, for the simple reason that Jordan never, ever had a game like that in the NBA Finals. It's one of the many reasons why I don't see anyone ever surpassing Jordan. He was just too good in big games... hard to surpass perfection. The only negatives for his career were his baseball hiatus and his Wizards comeback. I don't see anyone matching his 8-year run from 1988-1998 (not counting the baseball seasons), ever.
 
I loved when mj decided to suit up for the wizards. he was out of playing shape and old, but his competitiveness said, "man you all suck, I wanna win." he was the best player on his team even then...awesome stuff. PS- lebron is a db.
 
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