Can Penn St. be kicked out of the B1G?

[tweeterhawk]

Never said anything about not being punished. But all this talk about the death penalty and kicking them out of the conference is a reaction to the flames of hysteria being fanned by the media.

Penn State SHOULD receive punishment.....but not the death penalty or get kicked out of the conference.

Child rape by a university employee/former employee is horrible stuff. Aggressively working with top university leadership to cover it up for years even as the abuse continued is a total lack of institutional control and death penalty-worthy.

 

[HawkMD2007]

I posted this in a different thread but it seems more appropriate here...

Unfortunately, a specific NCAA rule was not broken by Penn State. It will be reasoned by the NCAA that it has no "bone to pick" and therefore, the NCAA will not give the death penalty.

The Big 10, the Pennsylvania House/Senate/Governor, and the Board of Trustees should get involved immediately. (Actually, the Board of Trustees should all be fired as this occurred under their watch).

I would:

1. Eliminate the employment of anybody at Penn State remotely involved in the cover-up. If you were there (and knew or suspected anything) and choose not to act, you are gone.
2. Anybody on the football staff (down to the equipment managers) there during the time of 1998 and later is automatically gone.
3. The entire Board of Trustees should be replaced immediately (lack of oversight and control).
4. The Big 10 should suspend Penn State from conference football participation for several years to let Penn State reset the culture. No Big 10 Network coverage of any Penn State football until the restitution process is complete. Projected revenue loss would be paid by Penn State.
5. At a minimum, assuming football is played, the NCAA should allow no post season participation for 10 years. No television coverage of any Penn State football games will be allowed. Again revenue losses would be paid by Penn State.
6. The NCAA should allow immediate transfer, without penalty, of current football players/recruits. Penn State will be liable for any and all costs related to the education of these transfers.
7. Any money Penn State makes from football games it does play goes directly into an outside fund to be used for victim compensation.

I could go on and on. It would be easiest in the NCAA had the balls to give them the death penalty but for legal reasons I don't think they will.​

 

[ColoradoHAWKEYE]

I believe you are wrong. The very essence of LOIC was violated. The NCAA is definitely on the clock, but certainly could cowar for a while, but not forever. The big ten could also draw themselves along into next year, but I'm thinking they will not be silent for very long in making some formal statement, even if it is just an appeasement. They are both awaiting something out of PSU first, I'm sure.

The season is upon us in less than thirty days.

 

[treychase]

I posted this in a different thread but it seems more appropriate here...

Unfortunately, a specific NCAA rule was not broken by Penn State. It will be reasoned by the NCAA that it has no "bone to pick" and therefore, the NCAA will not give the death penalty.

The Big 10, the Pennsylvania House/Senate/Governor, and the Board of Trustees should get involved immediately. (Actually, the Board of Trustees should all be fired as this occurred under their watch).

I would:

1. Eliminate the employment of anybody at Penn State remotely involved in the cover-up. If you were there (and knew or suspected anything) and choose not to act, you are gone.
2. Anybody on the football staff (down to the equipment managers) there during the time of 1998 and later is automatically gone.
3. The entire Board of Trustees should be replaced immediately (lack of oversight and control).
4. The Big 10 should suspend Penn State from conference football participation for several years to let Penn State reset the culture. No Big 10 Network coverage of any Penn State football until the restitution process is complete. Projected revenue loss would be paid by Penn State.
5. At a minimum, assuming football is played, the NCAA should allow no post season participation for 10 years. No television coverage of any Penn State football games will be allowed. Again revenue losses would be paid by Penn State.
6. The NCAA should allow immediate transfer, without penalty, of current football players/recruits. Penn State will be liable for any and all costs related to the education of these transfers.
7. Any money Penn State makes from football games it does play goes directly into an outside fund to be used for victim compensation.

I could go on and on. It would be easiest in the NCAA had the balls to give them the death penalty but for legal reasons I don't think they will.​

For the love of GOD & the one billionth time.....
Penn St had a non functioning compliance department.
THAT IS AN NCAA RULE VIOLATION.

The rapes themselves are not but the fact that the compliance system was non functioning IS a violation. And absolutely opens the door for the ncaa to investigate and level any punishments that it deems appropriate.

Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[ssckelley]

I find it funny that people worry about Penn State suing the NCAA over any punishment they get dished out for lack of institutional control. If there was a way for Penn State to look even worse them suing would do the trick.

 

[homes]

Maybe not the boot, but I could see them getting a suspension from championship play; the image conscious Big Ten will want to do something, I believe. If a ban from championship play were imposed, it makes OSU and Wisconsin's path to the football title game a bit easier. Probably without a suspension, their paths are now easier given the hit PSU will take on recruiting.

Begs another question - If PSU drops from relevance in football, do they reshuffle the Legends/Leaders? Frankly, the Big Ten deserves this potential mess when they set this up based on current strengths/weaknesses of the programs. They should have kept it along geographic lines from the beginning.

 

[treychase]

expulsion requires a vote of not less than 60 percent of the full council (a Big Ten spokesman said that figure is actually 70 percent, or eight members, which will be reflected in the 2012-13 handbook).

 

[ssckelley]

Begs another question - If PSU drops from relevance in football, do they reshuffle the Legends/Leaders? Frankly, the Big Ten deserves this potential mess when they set this up based on current strengths/weaknesses of the programs. They should have kept it along geographic lines from the beginning.

I doubt they would if they kept PSU in the conference but I wonder if they would reshuffle the divisions if they booted PSU and brought in another to replace them.

Personally I prefer a geographic alignment because then Iowa gets to play all our rivals.

 

[ThunderHawk]

I find it funny that people worry about Penn State suing the NCAA over any punishment they get dished out for lack of institutional control. If there was a way for Penn State to look even worse them suing would do the trick.

PSU suing the NCAA because the NCAA acts on the basis of a report sanctioned by PSU?

Anybody else see the logic fail here?

I'm thinking that lawsuit would be tossed outta court, and fast.

 

[ThunderHawk]

expulsion requires a vote of not less than 60 percent of the full council (a Big Ten spokesman said that figure is actually 70 percent, or eight members, which will be reflected in the 2012-13 handbook).

That's really not that high of a bar to clear.

 

[BlckNGldHwk]

I find it funny that people worry about Penn State suing the NCAA over any punishment they get dished out for lack of institutional control. If there was a way for Penn State to look even worse them suing would do the trick.

PSU suing the NCAA because the NCAA acts on the basis of a report sanctioned by PSU?Anybody else see the logic fail here?I'm thinking that lawsuit would be tossed outta court, and fast.

This is what everyone continues to fail to understand. The Freeh report that is stirring all of this discussion was SANCTIONED by Penn State. Penn State initiated the investigation. Penn State looks foolish debating their own findings. The NCAA got everything they needed to incite LOIC and they got it FROM Penn State. Game is over.

 

[David79]

For the love of GOD & the one billionth time.....
Penn St had a non functioning compliance department.
THAT IS AN NCAA RULE VIOLATION.

The rapes themselves are not but the fact that the compliance system was non functioning IS a violation. And absolutely opens the door for the ncaa to investigate and level any punishments that it deems appropriate.

Why is this so hard to understand?

I know. People should read this article and then they would understand what you are saying.

NCAA faces challenge with Penn State - Sports News from USA Today

 

[ssckelley]

I know. People should read this article and then they would understand what you are saying.

NCAA faces challenge with Penn State - Sports News from USA Today

I see what you did there. You are still looking for ways to defend Penn State. Just because this is a "very different set of circumstances" and this case is "unprecedented" does not mean the NCAA will not take action. With violations this serious the NCAA should not wait for an institution to be a repeat offender like SMU was. We are talking about failing to report criminal activity, covering up for it, and even lying to the Grand Jury. We are not talking about paying recruits. If the NCAA does not have any policies about criminal activity with in a program then they need to get some.

 

[treychase]

I know. People should read this article and then they would understand what you are saying.

NCAA faces challenge with Penn State - Sports News from USA Today

Sigh

I have provided the NCAA rules on principles of institutional control before.
They failed to meet any of them. Literally.

So writers can write whatever they want & correctly state that psu broke no rules, when in reality they did, just not in connection to the actual rapes.

The rapes = no ncaa violation, but many many legal violations
The non functioning compliance dept = ncaa violation

 

[homes]

I know. People should read this article and then they would understand what you are saying.

NCAA faces challenge with Penn State - Sports News from USA Today

It doesn't even seem that difficult to construct a case of lack of institutional control against Penn State. The leader of the football program was involved in a cover up to protect the Penn State brand, so that they could continue to rake in millions of dollars to further support their football program.

Does anyone think Paterno, Spanier and the rest were covering this up just to protect their buddy, Jerry Sandusky?

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I understand your point (I think). Here's where I need help bridging the gap.

The crimes committed here are heinous and clearly there was a systematic (institutional) effort to cover them up. No doubt. But they're not "crimes" that the NCAA is setup to enforce. NCAA policies revolve around enforcement and tracking complianance of NCAA athletic rules....things like academic standing, financial dealings, competitive fairness, etc

These are federal and state crimes. So does the NCAA have jurisdiction? How do they make that connection? Is it the financial or physical connection to the athletic facilities?

If a Physics professor was guilty of abusing students on campus and his department covered it up, would the Association of American Universities have similar power to step in and toss out a school? or kill their program?

 

[treychase]

I understand your point (I think). Here's where I need help bridging the gap.

The crimes committed here are heinous and clearly there was a systematic (institutional) effort to cover them up. No doubt. But they're not "crimes" that the NCAA is setup to enforce. NCAA policies revolve around enforcement and tracking complianance of NCAA athletic rules....things like academic standing, financial dealings, competitive fairness, etc

These are federal and state crimes. So does the NCAA have jurisdiction? How do they make that connection? Is it the financial or physical connection to the athletic facilities?

If an English professor was guilty of abusing students on campus and his department covered it up, would the Association of American Universities have similar power to step in and toss out a school? or kill their program?

PSU HAD A NON FUNCTIONING COMPLIANCE DEPARTMENT.
THAT IS AN NCAA VIOLATION, A BROKEN RULE.

THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL INVESTIGATE.
NOT THE ACTUAL RAPES. LAW ENFORCEMENT WILL DO THAT.

 

[HawkMD2007]

PSU HAD A NON FUNCTIONING COMPLIANCE DEPARTMENT.
THAT IS AN NCAA VIOLATION, A BROKEN RULE.

THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL INVESTIGATE.
NOT THE ACTUAL RAPES. LAW ENFORCEMENT WILL DO THAT.

A non-functioning compliance office will probably mean the NCAA will give PSU a one year bowl game suspension and the loss of a few scholarships. That's the way they roll with the Big guys....

 

[David79]

PSU's NCAA rules compliance was fine.

What they failed to comply with is moral standards and a duty as educators, adults, and humans to report allegations of the rape of young children and to cover it up.

 

[528646]

What happened at PSU is deplorable, but kicking them out of the Big Ten would be very damaging to the conference. There would be a short term flood of "good for you guys!!!", but some other power conference would snatch them up in a heartbeat and start reaping the benefit$.