Call me stupid if you want

The problem with you saying the product is bad is that it is a personal opinion. I would rather see this style of basketball then a no defense run and gun. I cannot stand bad defense.


Product= 9-17 bad basketball team..... I don't think product=style

I could care less what style is played as long as it's played well and the team wins. I like hard nosed defense and I like run and gun ball. I don't care, any style works for me as long as it's being executed properly.
 
The problem with you saying the product is bad is that it is a personal opinion. I would rather see this style of basketball then a no defense run and gun. I cannot stand bad defense.

And the problem with the future recruits reasoning is that there isn't a game changer in the bunch. Nor do we really know if the whole roster will be on the team next year.

By the way, don't you think it's possible to see up tempo basketball with good defense?
 
thanks IC, that is what I meant. I didn't say style. I don't care if we win 46-36 or whatever that Mich state score was as long as we win.
 
And the problem with the future recruits reasoning is that there isn't a game changer in the bunch. Nor do we really know if the whole roster will be on the team next year.

By the way, don't you think it's possible to see up tempo basketball with good defense?


There's no way for you to predict that at this point in time.
 
Product= 9-17 bad basketball team..... I don't think product=style

I could care less what style is played as long as it's played well and the team wins. I like hard nosed defense and I like run and gun ball. I don't care, any style works for me as long as it's being executed properly.

I think product is the overall package - success and style. Success is by far the #1 element though, IMO.

If I had my choice, I would much rather watch a run-n-gun style. I'm not sure it's necessarily accurate that playing up-tempo means you can't play good defense. The run-n-gun is more the style of offense you run, IMO. Some people look at run-n-gun as not being good fundamental basketball, but I would much rather watch teams get up and down the floor then watch two teams executing an offense for 30 seconds every time they have the ball.
 
STUPID!!!!!!


Hey, thanks for the invite. :p




On a side note, I've seen them pack it in many 2nd halves lately. But they are young & I'm going to punt this year. The style of play still has me concerned.
 
But what in the world were you guys expecting this season? You knew where the season was probably going to be going before it started. This team is playing better, cannot argue that they give 110% effort all time.

I'm just extremely tired of the constant whinning and complaining.

That's my rant today.

Sometimes knowing in advance that something is going to suck doesn't make it suck any less.
 
Great first post, we can now add another hater to the site.

HawkeyeBBall, if your objective in starting the string was to try to make the board a less contentious place, congratulations on an epic fail. Posts like your first in this string rarely accomplish much other than perhaps to make the OP feel better, but when you follow it up with posts like the one quoted above, you're really just exacerbating the unpleasantness.

Having been on both sides of these back-and-forths over the years, I think the best way to manage your way through them (other than just waiting for the team to start winning again) are:

1. Don't hesitate to make liberal use of the "ignore" feature if reading posts from people whose viewpoints or style bother you too much. (I'm sure there are a number of posters who won't be reading this post thanks to that bit of technology.)

2. Hope the admins on the board will enforce some reasonable and consistent rules of decorum...and don't contribute to the problem themselves.

3. Recognize that posts calling out "the other side" are ultimately only going to make the board more unpleasant and uncivil, not better. Sometimes you just have to get something off of your chest--but when you do, don't come back later wondering why everyone else is so "negative." There are various ways to be "negative," and you've shown us a couple of them in this string.
 
Just because we expected to suck, doesn't mean that it's acceptable to suck and we should be happy with it.

True, it was unrealistic to expect a very good team this year, but if you want to talk about realistic expectations, then you should also expect "whining" when the team is on track to set the single season loss record...... and this is 3 years into Lickliter's tenure.


What this guy said. Iowa should not be in this position, period, especially not in year 3 no matter the reasons for roster turnover.
 
Ask yourself, the day that Lick was hired about 3 years ago, were your expectations that in year 3,he would be in 10th place in the league? That we would go 6-7 in non-conference? That we would lose over 20 games in year 3?

Personally, I had a lot of doubts about lick the day he was hired,mainly because I was worried that he had never recruited at a BCS school level before and I just wondered if he could at Iowa....sadly,my worst fears have been confirmed,so far.
 
There's no way for you to predict that at this point in time.


I am not trashing the recruits. I just see same ol' same ol' after watching them in person and on film. There are some good kids coming in that bring their own set of skills. But unless we get a true PG to compliment them....nothing will change. They will be put in positions where they are overmatched for their skill set. And they will struggle.

Some people will never understand this point I imagine. Watching Gatens in high school, who wouldn't have thought he'd be a star at this level. Unfortunately, he has had some struggles. Not because of his own defeciencies, but because of the teams. He's been asked to do much more than his ability allows. If you are going to recruit mainly role players, you better be able to put them in position to apply their strengths to the team. Otherwise what you have been seeing under the TL era is what happens.
 
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There's no way for you to predict that at this point in time.

Absolutely true.

But... then on the flip side, folks who argue we need to wait and give Lickliter another year because he has some good recruits coming in next year are essentially making the same type of argument (just opposite view).

So if it's not fair to say Lick should go because none of the recruits are game changers, then it is also unfair to say Lickliter should get another year because of the good recruits he’s bringing in.
 
I don't know that I have ever heard a real answer to this question.

Disagree. Just because you have not heard a real answer does not mean one has not been provided on this board. I have stated my opinion on the subject dozens of times. I am tired of doing it for each new poster that signs up for HaterNation, for all they are going to do is disagree. I have no problem with those that disagree, but my opinion has not changed and I am tired of typing the same the over and over and over again, unlike others on this board. It is a gross waste of time. We will see shortly how things go in the offseason and what he have to look forward to going into next season. I do agree that if any of the core players transfer, Barta needs to let Lick go.
 
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Disagree. Just because you have not heard a real answer does not mean one has not been provided on this board. I have stated my opinion on the subject dozens of times. I am tired of doing it for each new poster that signs up for HaterNation, for all they are going to do is disagree. I have no problem with those that disagree, but my opinion has not changed and I am tired of typing the same the over and over and over again, unlike others on this board. It is a gross waste of time. We will see shortly how things go in the offseason and what he have to look forward to going into next season. I do agree that if any of the core players transfer, Barta needs to let Lick go.

If you are tired of stating your opinion then why are you even reading and posting in this thread. I'm new here so I'd really like to hear your reasons for hope.
 
Just because we expected to win a few games doesn't make me happy now that we won a few games. We won 25 games the year before Alford left and 9 big ten games in Alford's last year.

Is it too much to ask, in year three, to have more wins than losses?
 
I am not trashing the recruits. I just see same ol' same ol' after watching them in person and on film. There are some good kids coming in that bring their own set of skills. But unless we get a true PG to compliment them....nothing will change. They will be put in positions where they are overmatched for their skill set. And they will struggle.

Some people will never understand this point I imagine. Watching Gatens in high school, who wouldn't have thought he'd be a star at this level. Unfortunately, he has had some struggles. Not because of his own defeciencies, but because of the teams. He's been asked to do much more than his ability allows. If you are going to recruit mainly role players, you better be able to put them in position to apply their strengths to the team. Otherwise what you have been seeing under the TL era is what happens.

Yes...yes you did. There is no way to prove it. You're speculating, pure and simple. Here's a thought...how about we lets these kids play a few games before labeling them as failures? Or maybe get to campus, let's try that.
 
If you are tired of stating your opinion then why are you even reading and posting in this thread. I'm new here so I'd really like to hear your reasons for hope.

For the newbies to the site: Here is ForeverHawk's reasons for optimism. It is long and I sure some of you have heard this from me before.

No matter what people want to say, Iowa has shown improvement this year. They have been in most games except for Michigan and Purdue, which I think are bad physical and athletic matchups for Iowa. Iowa dictates the tempo in most of their games. Yes, I realize it is to slow it down style, which sometimes leads to shots late in the clock, but it would appear at this point Lick believes that is what gives this team the best chance to win. I would like to see them get into their offense to take the shot a little earlier so they are not rushing as much at the end, and I think we are seeing this a little more lately.

I believe Iowa is playing much better man to man defense compared to the beginning of the year. I think as the year started, the defense had regressed from last year quite a bit. I think Lick has always had pretty good man to man teams at Iowa. I am not sure why he does not run more zone, as Iowa does have trouble defending athletic big men inside.

I don't think anyone can deny we have seen tremendous individual improvement in Fuller and May. Both are able to play day in and day out in the big 10. To some it looks like Gatens has taken a step back, maybe so, but I think he misses Jake Kelly a bunch. Kelly was the only guy on the team that could break down the defense as the shot clock ran down last year and could find a guy like Gatens on the perimeter for an open shot. It looks like Gatens ankle injury is bothering him less recently and I like how he is looking to drive the ball more, which will only help his all around game.

I like Cully Payne. I agree we need a quality backup, but Payne is tough and is a competitor. He can get to the hole and finish at times and can hit the outside shot. He went through a shooting slump recently and had trouble at the FT line against NW, but I know he was nursing an elbow injury. I don't know what more you can ask from a true freshman starting at pg in the big 10. He has exceeded my expectations.

I like Cougill as well. I would like to see him play a little tougher down low, but there is no denying the fact that he can hit the 3 pointer after rolling off the high screen. My hope is that he gets in better shape in the off-season to help with his back issues and to give him more endurance for next season.

I love Cole's work ethic and leadership. If only he was 3-4 inches taller, he would be the man.

I like how Iowa seems to be moving the ball better as the year has progressed. They have shown much more inside out looks. This does two things. It gives our bigs chances to score down low, but it also opens up the perimeter guys for better looks on the kickout passes from down low. Iowa is not always consistent with their inside out ball movement, but when they are, their offense clicks pretty well.

Now, it is easy to sit here a blame all the transfers on Lick. The fact is, it is all water under the bridge. However, last year's defections set this program back to where it was prior to Lick's first year in my opinion. That is why my expectations were very low coming into this year and why I don't get worked up over the outcome of the games. Yes, it is on on a head coach to retain players, but none of those players were really Lick's recruits. You could argue that Lick recruited Kelly and Peterson, but really all he did was re-affirm their comittments once he was hired at Iowa. I don't really think anybody was surprised by Tucker leaving. I wanted him to stay, but I really can't blame Lick for how he handled it. Now we hear a rumor Brommer could be leaving. Yes, he is a Lick recruit. Don't get me wrong, I would like for him to stay, but if he left it would really not hurt the program. This would also give Lick the opportunity to bring in two additional players for next year, or bank a scholarship for the next year.

At this point I have to assume that Tucker is the only defection for this year. I have agreed on this board that if a core player were to leave, i.e. Gatens, Fuller, Cole, May, Payne, Cougill that Barta will need to let Lick go. But, I like this core of players, alot. Each player brings alot to this team in their own way. Add to this core, a very solid recruiting class and I think next year will be alot better. I have said on here I think the will be 10 games better and I would like to see them win around 18+ next year. I think Iowa will have a sinificant upgrade in their depth. This is what has hurt them alot this year. They can hang in games for quite a while, but then I believe they hit a wall due to a lack of quality depth. They are bringing in scorers all across the board next year in Brust, Larson, Marble and McCabe. You add Archie and that is a pretty solid 10-11 player group. That will give Lick options and allow for much needed rest during the games. That is not even counting most likely a new addition at pg. I know they are possibly looking at K. Williams and Alexander from juco, or Hatchett from high school. I think one of these three will be at Iowa next year. I think Archie also gives you that athletic big man that Iowa needs inside on defense. I know he did not bring much to the table in regards to offense, but hopefully this redshirt season can help with that and a little more bulk for next year.

You get 10-12 solid players, and they will have some very spirited practices, which will only make them better as a team come game time. Also, I don't think you see John Lickliter next year, except in mop up duties.

So to wrap this novel up and hopefully you can see why I don't want to type it out time and time again. It appears Lick has improved his recruiting as the class coming in is his best to date. Unfortunately he has had to learn on the job here at Iowa. This team has shown improvement throughout the season, whether some want to admit that or not. They are adding quality players next year to an established core. Lick knows how to coach, he hasn't forgotten. I think as this team gels next year, you will see higher scoring games with fewer turnovers. This should lead to more excitement and better fan turnout.

Now, in order for my thoughts to become reality, that all depends on what happens this offseason. I also think that if Lick were let go at the end of this season that it would only make things worse. You might have more mass defections and you may not get this class to come in. Who knows for sure. I have also said that I think Lick should get next year and the year after, but that I think and NCAA bid should be the goal at the end of year 5.

I am not happy with this season. I am not happy with where the program is after three years. But I have optimism for the future and I think Lick can get it done.
 
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Just because we expected to win a few games doesn't make me happy now that we won a few games. We won 25 games the year before Alford left and 9 big ten games in Alford's last year.

Is it too much to ask, in year three, to have more wins than losses?

+1
 
But what in the world were you guys expecting this season? You knew where the season was probably going to be going before it started. This team is playing better, cannot argue that they give 110% effort all time.

I'm just extremely tired of the constant whinning and complaining.

That's my rant today.

I'm with you, and I have said the same thing. Going into this season, I had low expectations, and am happy with the effort. Results will come with more talent and depth. I hope Coach stays and is allowed to try and build this team. I think he can do it.
 

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