hawkeye2188
Well-Known Member
As much as people want this to be true with recruits, i think this is their out after 22 loss season.
Brust Given his release
- Thread starter HawkeyeRyno
- Start date
FreddyBrown
Moderator
I assume that Spanky is referring to the reports of "cliques" on the team, possibly some tension between classes and/or directed at Gatens.
My take on that is there is the potential for that on every team, because it's a collection of college kids and that's what college kids will do if left to their own designs. But for it to become a real problem on the team, if that happened I believe it reflects poor leadership and poor communication by the staff. The more I see of this mess, the more astonished I am at what a truly awful job Todd Lickliter did here.
And I don't believe a good head coach, leader and communicator like Caff will allow that kind of thing to gain any momentum on his team. As far as I'm concerned Brust and Larson are gone, but I also don't expecty any of this Peyton Place crap that people keep beating around the bushes about to be a factor on Caff's team.
And I might add: If Caff has figured out that there was a problem along these lines (and I suspect that was made known to him by Barta or others early on), if I were him it would be a reason not to consider retaining any coach from the prior staff.
My take on that is there is the potential for that on every team, because it's a collection of college kids and that's what college kids will do if left to their own designs. But for it to become a real problem on the team, if that happened I believe it reflects poor leadership and poor communication by the staff. The more I see of this mess, the more astonished I am at what a truly awful job Todd Lickliter did here.
And I don't believe a good head coach, leader and communicator like Caff will allow that kind of thing to gain any momentum on his team. As far as I'm concerned Brust and Larson are gone, but I also don't expecty any of this Peyton Place crap that people keep beating around the bushes about to be a factor on Caff's team.
And I might add: If Caff has figured out that there was a problem along these lines (and I suspect that was made known to him by Barta or others early on), if I were him it would be a reason not to consider retaining any coach from the prior staff.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
So what is all this stuff about Gatens and divided players? Could it be that Gatens is the problem? I just don't know what the rumors are.
I keep hearing that players were divided among each other and none of them ever had any contact with the staff. But i kept hearing Gatens name in every one of these vague references.
I keep hearing that players were divided among each other and none of them ever had any contact with the staff. But i kept hearing Gatens name in every one of these vague references.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
Sometimes you just need a little bit longer to decide what's best for you.
Stuka
Well-Known Member
I agree with this. Either spit it out, or keep it to yourself.
hawkeye12345
Well-Known Member
Why hasn't anyone pointed out that maybe, just maybe, Fran is setting his expectations with the players and they may not like what is expected out of them? Maybe he thinks that certain parts of their game need to be improved in order to get significant PT?
Brust isn't exactly an all-world player. The kid barely received honorable mention in the state of Illinois and the PG heading to Marquette made him look silly on several defensive sets (not just the one where he took it to the hole on him).
Maybe players like Ben wanted to be a Hawkeye because Lick emphasized jacking up 3 balls all the time? What shooting guard wouldn't like to hear that?
All I'm saying is that player defections now are much better than wasting a scholarship on a kid that may not be a good fit with the new system.
Brust isn't exactly an all-world player. The kid barely received honorable mention in the state of Illinois and the PG heading to Marquette made him look silly on several defensive sets (not just the one where he took it to the hole on him).
Maybe players like Ben wanted to be a Hawkeye because Lick emphasized jacking up 3 balls all the time? What shooting guard wouldn't like to hear that?
All I'm saying is that player defections now are much better than wasting a scholarship on a kid that may not be a good fit with the new system.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
I agree that cleaning house right away is much better than how it happened in Lickliter's case.
However, the discussions that some perceive happening between Fran/Francis and the recruits/families/coaches are a lot more in-depth than some are making it out to be. There are a lot of layers involved with this and there are some players who want to be sure that this new program is going to fit them.
Some of them just need more time.
However, the discussions that some perceive happening between Fran/Francis and the recruits/families/coaches are a lot more in-depth than some are making it out to be. There are a lot of layers involved with this and there are some players who want to be sure that this new program is going to fit them.
Some of them just need more time.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
I think all of this is just fine. Iowa made a commitment to these players so obviously they would honor that, but to be honest the sooner Fran can open spots for his recruits the faster this rebuilding process will happen. I don't care if we lose every game next year, and I am not hoping more people leave, but I am not going to shed any tears for the Iowa program.
To be honest I saw it as almost a negative that we had such a young team. There are some quality players there but far too many players that fit the same exact role/profile. Turnover of current players/recruits may change whether we win half of our games next year or 40% of our games or whatever, but in three years we will look back on these departures and say it was a good thing.
To be honest I saw it as almost a negative that we had such a young team. There are some quality players there but far too many players that fit the same exact role/profile. Turnover of current players/recruits may change whether we win half of our games next year or 40% of our games or whatever, but in three years we will look back on these departures and say it was a good thing.
Yeah, if there's one guy that I would take advice from regarding message board information it's RDubbs. Keep posting these sorts of things Spank. They can get bent.
Stuka
Well-Known Member
Nah, no need to apologize to me. I'm just one of those people that are getting riled about the fact that there were, and STILL ARE problems in the program. People allude to them, but never want to get into details. Inquiring minds (like myself) want to know!
rdubbs
Banned
Still following me around like a little puppy? LOL at you
No, not following you. You making a dumb comment to spank in a thread I was viewing is all. I for one am not threatened by other people knowing things that I don't and enjoy hearing information from people like Spank even if vague.
Oh, and by the way, if I were a puppy, you would be the last person I would follow around. A puppy needs someone who can afford to feed him. Thanks though!
rdubbs
Banned
Dance boy, dance.
clicheusername3
Banned
Where are all the "These recruits are coming because they bleed black gold and are Hawkeyes" guys at now? Iowa and its fans need to step out of the 80's and start seeing that CBB is a business, a big ruthless business. Coach better be knocking down doors and getting negative if he has to in recruiting or were going to be having the "he was a good guy but just couldn't get it done here" conversation again real soon...
tiggerhawk
Well-Known Member
If this is your preference and vision of the Hawkeye future then perhaps the first thing you need to do is consider the essential, simple fact that IT IS VERY LATE IN THE GAME to be anticipating the likelihood of getting consideration from top prospects--not just at the last moment in 2010, but also in 2011 (the great majority of kids have been dealing with the coaches & programs they will decide among for a year, two, three) and even in 2011: this year's HS sophomores have two years of contacts, game visits, and time to get familiar with coaches & programs). Most of these kids already have a pretty good idea of where they want to go, or have narrowed choices to a select list.
Sure, if you are a prestige coach, or a successful program, or have great tradition or location or academic reputation, etc then it is very possible to get to a player later on.
And in the meantime, if McCaffery is not able to find suitable players to make the team competitive next year, that has adverse impact on recruiting for 2012 and later. If the record isn't significantly better after two years, then it becomes tough to even keep Iowa kids like Paige, Woodbury, Kastenbauer at home in Iowa uniforms. The fan base gets as nasty toward McCaffery as it did to Lickliter, and probably just as quickly.
We should not be trying to sugarcoat the loss of Fuller or the reopening of their recruitment by Brust & Larson--especially because Brommer will likely follow Fuller out the door, and without Larson we don't have a power forward left: probably have to move Cole, but that means Cougill & Archie at center...and like the past year, a roster too shallow of players with enough talent to play BT level hoops to avoid late game losses.
As of now we are looking at a roster of Cole, Archie, Cougill, Gatens, May, McCabe, Marble & Payne...if he doesn't yet bail out. We need to have Brust decide he wants to be a Hawkeye after considering his options. We need Larson OR another PF who can come in and play right away as a true freshman.
Even more, whatever the full extent of the problems in the program and between the players, this probably should & will be McCaffery's first priority. Iowa needs to get to the root problem and deal with it in order to stem the flow of players out of the program and the difficulties in getting & keeping commitments from recruits. While its obvious that Lickliter was a big part of the problem, it also seems clear that it extends beyond just him.
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FreddyBrown
Moderator
"While its obvious that Lickliter was a big part of the problem, it also seems clear that it extends beyond just him."
How so?
As for the recruiting piece, a part of this that isn't accounted for in some analsyses is that Coach McCaffery didn't just appear on the scene with no background and no meaninful contacts, nor does Andrew Francis, and nor in all probability will at least one of the other two assistants. They're not starting from scratch here. Are they selling a different University? Absolutely, very different and much better than what they had to sell before. But they have contacts--real, useful contacts, and I believe those contacts will pay dividends, not in McDonald's A-A's but in kids that can really play and prevent the program from being anywhere near as awful as it was last season.
This was one of the many respects in which Lickliter was a bad hire. He really didn't have those kinds of contacts himself, or didn't do what was necessary to make anything of them, and hired a staff that basically didn't have them, either. All three of the assistants were learning on the job. I would bet that both Caff and Francis have better ad more productive recruiting contacts than any member of the last staff today, and certainly better than any member of the last staff came in with. Moreover, we now have a head coach who understands how recruiting works and that the head coach has to be hands on and aggressive about it both off and on campus.
In short, we are in a much better position to rebound quickly from the player/recruit attrition we're currently experiencing (even of Brust and/or Larson don't end up as Hawkeyes) than we would have been under the last staff, and for matter probably better equipped than any Iowa staff since George Raveling.
How so?
As for the recruiting piece, a part of this that isn't accounted for in some analsyses is that Coach McCaffery didn't just appear on the scene with no background and no meaninful contacts, nor does Andrew Francis, and nor in all probability will at least one of the other two assistants. They're not starting from scratch here. Are they selling a different University? Absolutely, very different and much better than what they had to sell before. But they have contacts--real, useful contacts, and I believe those contacts will pay dividends, not in McDonald's A-A's but in kids that can really play and prevent the program from being anywhere near as awful as it was last season.
This was one of the many respects in which Lickliter was a bad hire. He really didn't have those kinds of contacts himself, or didn't do what was necessary to make anything of them, and hired a staff that basically didn't have them, either. All three of the assistants were learning on the job. I would bet that both Caff and Francis have better ad more productive recruiting contacts than any member of the last staff today, and certainly better than any member of the last staff came in with. Moreover, we now have a head coach who understands how recruiting works and that the head coach has to be hands on and aggressive about it both off and on campus.
In short, we are in a much better position to rebound quickly from the player/recruit attrition we're currently experiencing (even of Brust and/or Larson don't end up as Hawkeyes) than we would have been under the last staff, and for matter probably better equipped than any Iowa staff since George Raveling.
HawkKing81
Well-Known Member
How much does Butler almost winning the National Championship have to do with Brust's decision? Wasn't he considering Butler?
jshawks
Well-Known Member
Here's the way I look at it. While losing these guys hurts us in the short term, it will make a powerful selling point to some talented kids in the near future. All Caff has to do is tell new recruits, do you want to be a NOB (Newbie On the Bench) for a year maybe two before you see significant playing time at another university? Or do you want to get immediate playing time at a university in a major conference? I supspect there will be alot of talented kids who are not tied to Lick or Walthal who would be interested in doing just that. I personally want as few ties to the old coaching regime as possible, and while we will certainly pay for it in the short term, I think it will pay dividens down the road. Remember Kirk Ferentz's first year was a 1-10 season (the worst since 1973) and look how that turned out.
