Bo and turnovers
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greghammel
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Seriously? He plays a really slow game... less possessions. No fast breaks. Gets back on defense and makes teams waste clock running their offense. All of this equals less turnovers. Teams that play high tempo will have more possessions and higher turnovers.
This is like asking why a QB with twice as many pass attempts has more interceptions than some other QB... statistics can sometimes be misleading.
Bo plays a really boring game which puts teams to sleep. Wisconsin fans don't mind it because they were horrible for decades before they started playing this way. Iowa tried to play this way... but the fans hated it, and the players never adapted to it and thankfully we scrapped it. High Tempo basketball is Iowa... it is what we expect.
Wisconsin wins a lot of regular season games this way, but when it comes down to a tournament and teams focus an entire game it is not as difficult to beat Wisconsin as proven last Wed night.
Not a fan of Wisconsin style basketball at all. I hope we never EVER try playing this way at Iowa again!
This is like asking why a QB with twice as many pass attempts has more interceptions than some other QB... statistics can sometimes be misleading.
Bo plays a really boring game which puts teams to sleep. Wisconsin fans don't mind it because they were horrible for decades before they started playing this way. Iowa tried to play this way... but the fans hated it, and the players never adapted to it and thankfully we scrapped it. High Tempo basketball is Iowa... it is what we expect.
Wisconsin wins a lot of regular season games this way, but when it comes down to a tournament and teams focus an entire game it is not as difficult to beat Wisconsin as proven last Wed night.
Not a fan of Wisconsin style basketball at all. I hope we never EVER try playing this way at Iowa again!
H8IAST8
Well-Known Member
AND 1!
burky247
Well-Known Member
Well said.
HawkeyeShane
Well-Known Member
It's simple...Bo hates turnovers...food poisoning from one when he was a kid...can't look at 'em, can't smell 'em...can't even talk about 'em while watching game tape...
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
This is why Wisky wins & always competitive. No TO's & they always shoot free throws very well. His players won't play if they don't take care of the ball when in the game. They won't see the floor.
With low TO's & shooting a great free throw %, add in getting 18 offensive rebounds. This makes beating them very difficult. You just can't give a team like Wisky 18 more offensive possessions. Aside from scoring, giving them more O possessions with their pace gets a team out of its own pace.
This is why they came away with a win when only shooting 18% against Iowa. It was all on the O boards Iowa gave up along with Wisky's TO margin & ability to hit free throws.
Iowa almost pulled it off, but the rebounds hurt the worst in that game.
With low TO's & shooting a great free throw %, add in getting 18 offensive rebounds. This makes beating them very difficult. You just can't give a team like Wisky 18 more offensive possessions. Aside from scoring, giving them more O possessions with their pace gets a team out of its own pace.
This is why they came away with a win when only shooting 18% against Iowa. It was all on the O boards Iowa gave up along with Wisky's TO margin & ability to hit free throws.
Iowa almost pulled it off, but the rebounds hurt the worst in that game.
dmShortSaledude
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I'm surprised that this question would ever be asked. Boring, slow, methodical basketball. Circa 1950s...
I am soo glad that Iowa doesn't have that dull style of play anymore! I don't give an S if we were winning like Butler. That brand of basketball sucks asre and I cannot watch it without falling asleep. Literally.
greghammel
Well-Known Member
No team, and I mean no team slows the game down like Wisconsin does. They are dead last #345 out of 345 teams with a 59.3 avg possesions per game. They simply attempt to play so boring that the other team gets sick of it. It also frustrates the opposition who wants to run up and down and play basketball. Which leads to fouls, which is (not by coincidence) FT shooting is an area Wisconsin leads the nation in as well.
North Carolina has 75 possessions per game, Duke has 74.
Why don't you just flip a qtr those amounts and see how many times you get tails to get the point.
Even a team like Iowa has 69 possessions per game.
Note: UNI is second at fewest possessions per game at 60.6 and guess what? THEY ARE #2 in least amount of turnovers per game at 9.5
It is what it is... not amazing. Just statistical hype.
North Carolina has 75 possessions per game, Duke has 74.
Why don't you just flip a qtr those amounts and see how many times you get tails to get the point.
Even a team like Iowa has 69 possessions per game.
Note: UNI is second at fewest possessions per game at 60.6 and guess what? THEY ARE #2 in least amount of turnovers per game at 9.5
It is what it is... not amazing. Just statistical hype.
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greghammel
Well-Known Member
Then the Wisconsin fans chanting stuff like "PLAYER X SWALLOWS" and spitting in the face of teams as they head to the locker room. Bo getting in the face of the refs who are fearing for their lives and overturning calls and it is more than obvious he teaches his players to flop, just watch how well both Tucker and Gasser do this falling and flopping like they were violated only to see on replay they were grazed or not touched at all. It is very dishonest and unsportsmanlike.
Anyone who appreciates this style of play is uninformed or a shitball.
Anyone who appreciates this style of play is uninformed or a shitball.
greghammel
Well-Known Member
If Wisconsin wins 36-30 their fans act like it was Bo Ball and great defense. We have fans that say "why can't we play like Wisconsin" and want to bring in a coach like Lickliter.
I am so glad we have moved on from this mentality. Wisconsin fans will get sick of it really quick when they start losing a lot of games next year.
I am so glad we have moved on from this mentality. Wisconsin fans will get sick of it really quick when they start losing a lot of games next year.
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
Name one.
Firehawk11
Well-Known Member
Iowa last year
Firehawk11
Well-Known Member
Badgers 5 starters are shooting 85% from the FT line. Crazy good stat, we win 5 more games this year with those numbers.
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
Well played, sir.
Thawki
Well-Known Member
An interesting thing about Wisconsin, Greghammel.
If you talk to a coach, they don't really play the same game as Lick. I myself never realized this until I talked to a coach. You just think they do because they slow it up and don't turn the ball over. They have an inside game. They have more of an inside game than Lick by a long shot and they have really good athletes on that team of the caliber Lick didn't seem to be getting, save for Larson and Marble, and maybe Fuller.
They have some really good players in that program. They have been to the Final Four once in the last 10 years or so, which is one more times than Norm Stewart or Tom Davis ever went, and got beat by a conference rival.
Their problem, according to people like you, is that they can't get back to the Final Four every five years or so (not many can) and you think they play boring ball. Their fans don't have a problem with it because they are smart about it, having seen it up close and personal. You are somewhat clueless about his brand of basketball because you can't appreciate it and you think it is the same as Lick.
By the way, evidently you aren't observant enough to realize that they have players in that program for four and many times five years. And they contribute. That is another reason that program succeeds. It is similar to Iowa football in that guys are in the system long enough that by the time they play they know their role and so there is less turnover in the teams, and less turnovers on the court as a result.
If you talk to a coach, they don't really play the same game as Lick. I myself never realized this until I talked to a coach. You just think they do because they slow it up and don't turn the ball over. They have an inside game. They have more of an inside game than Lick by a long shot and they have really good athletes on that team of the caliber Lick didn't seem to be getting, save for Larson and Marble, and maybe Fuller.
They have some really good players in that program. They have been to the Final Four once in the last 10 years or so, which is one more times than Norm Stewart or Tom Davis ever went, and got beat by a conference rival.
Their problem, according to people like you, is that they can't get back to the Final Four every five years or so (not many can) and you think they play boring ball. Their fans don't have a problem with it because they are smart about it, having seen it up close and personal. You are somewhat clueless about his brand of basketball because you can't appreciate it and you think it is the same as Lick.
By the way, evidently you aren't observant enough to realize that they have players in that program for four and many times five years. And they contribute. That is another reason that program succeeds. It is similar to Iowa football in that guys are in the system long enough that by the time they play they know their role and so there is less turnover in the teams, and less turnovers on the court as a result.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
I disagree with this. It's part of the game. Selling things to get calls is definitely part of the game. Like in baseball, I took most of the throws at second base on steals. We didn't have a catcher that dropped it right on the bag everytime, and he didn't have a great arm. You'd have to sell the tag a lot. I got a quite a few calls that way, making it LOOK like I tagged the runner, even though I knew I didn't.
Hell, look at the UCONN/Louisville game from tonight. That foul on the 3 on Walker? That shooter wasn't trying to score at all. As soon as Walker left his feet (pretty straight-up, BTW), that shooter just jumped into him and sold it to get the foul call. It was a heady play.
DodgerHawki
Well-Known Member
You are correct that that Wisky slows it down..
and that will impact their raw turnover numbers. However, the Badgers still lead the nation on percentage of possessions that end in a turnover, turning it over on just 13 percent of their offensive possessions. Contrast Iowa, who turned it over on 21.6 percent of offensive possessions. It is possible to play fast and protect the ball. BYU has over 71 possessions per game but turned it over just 15 percent of the time. Missouri plays games at 72 possessions per game, but turns it over just 16.9 percent of the time.
I very much like the style of play Fran has brought in, but if we are going to make a move to the top half of the league, we are going to have to not give the ball away on 21 percent of our offensive possessions. It's very hard to win that way.
and that will impact their raw turnover numbers. However, the Badgers still lead the nation on percentage of possessions that end in a turnover, turning it over on just 13 percent of their offensive possessions. Contrast Iowa, who turned it over on 21.6 percent of offensive possessions. It is possible to play fast and protect the ball. BYU has over 71 possessions per game but turned it over just 15 percent of the time. Missouri plays games at 72 possessions per game, but turns it over just 16.9 percent of the time.
I very much like the style of play Fran has brought in, but if we are going to make a move to the top half of the league, we are going to have to not give the ball away on 21 percent of our offensive possessions. It's very hard to win that way.
Re: An interesting thing about Wisconsin, Greghammel.
A couple things, people were comparing the tempo of ball Lick and Ryan like, not style. I think it is very obvious that Lick liked a lot of ball screens and three pointers, where Ryan's swing offense goes inside much more.
The final four was before Bo Ryan was at Wisconsin. Ryan's teams have advanced to the elite eight one time and the sweet sixteen twice, outside of the elite eight run. Certainly a good achievement, and one that far outpaces Iowa in that same time span. But, Wisconsin seems to under perform in the tournament. In the last five years, Ryan's team has advanced past the second round just once, despite never finishing below 4th in the Big Ten, including winning the conference and finishing second one time each.
Wisconsin isn't a team built for the tournament, and Ryan will never see the elite eight again. Athletes do not want to play in his system.
A couple things, people were comparing the tempo of ball Lick and Ryan like, not style. I think it is very obvious that Lick liked a lot of ball screens and three pointers, where Ryan's swing offense goes inside much more.
The final four was before Bo Ryan was at Wisconsin. Ryan's teams have advanced to the elite eight one time and the sweet sixteen twice, outside of the elite eight run. Certainly a good achievement, and one that far outpaces Iowa in that same time span. But, Wisconsin seems to under perform in the tournament. In the last five years, Ryan's team has advanced past the second round just once, despite never finishing below 4th in the Big Ten, including winning the conference and finishing second one time each.
Wisconsin isn't a team built for the tournament, and Ryan will never see the elite eight again. Athletes do not want to play in his system.
greghammel
Well-Known Member
Re: An interesting thing about Wisconsin, Greghammel.
Thanks for poining all this stuff out! It was obvious Lickliter's style wasn't the same as Ryan... but they both like SLOW basketball and it is boring as hell. When you are winning it is great, but when you lose 36-33 it is absolutely horrible and much less bearable to watch and put up with than a 78-75 loss.
If Wisconsin would have won 36-33 they would have been saying Badger Ball rocks and how awesome their defense is.
Also sick of Wisconsin fans talking about Bo Ryan and the Final Four he never took them to. This was back in the 99-00 season under Bennett, but they always seem to bring this up.
Everytime I think Wisconsin is about to fall apart... like next year. They always seem to find a way to finish 3rd-4th in the B10. Teams need to just FOCUS when they play them. There is no reason a team like Wisconsin should be finishing in the upper division, but they do... by playing a completely different style of attempting to bore teams to death and it has been effective and frustrates other teams. When you lost for so many years trying to play any other way... this is alright to your fan base, but how many 2nd round losses in the NCAA can a fan put up with?
I look fwd to seeing the bracket today... one of the first things I will look at is who will be playing Wisconsin in the second round. 3 of the last 4 years, and 6 out of 9 times Wisconsin has finished in the B10 Top 4 and failed to move past the Second round playing Bo Ball. It will be interesting if it happens again. I think the Badger fans are becoming less tolerable to it, but are now kind of stuck to Bo Ryan ball. They can't exactly fire him, but they shouldn't expect better results either.
I love the NCAA Tournament... can't wait for the Hawkeyes to get back into it again possibly as early as next year. Will all the failures to call timeouts at the end of the game causing many losses this year have worked to give the team more maturity?
Thanks for poining all this stuff out! It was obvious Lickliter's style wasn't the same as Ryan... but they both like SLOW basketball and it is boring as hell. When you are winning it is great, but when you lose 36-33 it is absolutely horrible and much less bearable to watch and put up with than a 78-75 loss.
If Wisconsin would have won 36-33 they would have been saying Badger Ball rocks and how awesome their defense is.
Also sick of Wisconsin fans talking about Bo Ryan and the Final Four he never took them to. This was back in the 99-00 season under Bennett, but they always seem to bring this up.
Everytime I think Wisconsin is about to fall apart... like next year. They always seem to find a way to finish 3rd-4th in the B10. Teams need to just FOCUS when they play them. There is no reason a team like Wisconsin should be finishing in the upper division, but they do... by playing a completely different style of attempting to bore teams to death and it has been effective and frustrates other teams. When you lost for so many years trying to play any other way... this is alright to your fan base, but how many 2nd round losses in the NCAA can a fan put up with?
I look fwd to seeing the bracket today... one of the first things I will look at is who will be playing Wisconsin in the second round. 3 of the last 4 years, and 6 out of 9 times Wisconsin has finished in the B10 Top 4 and failed to move past the Second round playing Bo Ball. It will be interesting if it happens again. I think the Badger fans are becoming less tolerable to it, but are now kind of stuck to Bo Ryan ball. They can't exactly fire him, but they shouldn't expect better results either.
I love the NCAA Tournament... can't wait for the Hawkeyes to get back into it again possibly as early as next year. Will all the failures to call timeouts at the end of the game causing many losses this year have worked to give the team more maturity?
