Bill O'Brien Says Riley McCarron Like Wes Welker

[DDThompson]

what did he say say that was personal?

He disagreed?

 

[InGoodCo]

I get that some folks don't like the state of the program. As fans, I get it. And there certainly are some legit criticisms and fans can want something different.

McCarron doing what he's doing, even if he never makes it, is a really cool story. Turning it into a negative about the program is just tired, IMO.

It's absolutely ridiculous to take Iowa NFL success stories and then turn it around on the Iowa staff for under utilization. Who got them there? Fresh eyes, different system, different staffs can help elevate a player. Some folks don't like the state of the program, and that's fine. I want more too. I want to win more games. But Iowa is 33-19 the last 4 seasons, historically that's above average for Iowa. It's not great, it's not crap either. It's beyond tired

 

[eledmonster]

I think Vandy will be the same thing. It wasn't going to be well received, so I never mentioned that he reminded me of welker. I'm serious, not making this up. It seems ok to come out now and say it.

I honestly thought the same thing.

 

[HawkGold]

I guess it's somewhat predictable that people around here are going to take a real cool story like McCarron walking on at Iowa, playing a big role in wins at Illinois and against Nebraska last year to finish his career and now impressing coaches in an NFL camp, and turn it into an indictment of the Hawkeye program. Still, it's laughable.

No, not really Rob. Iowa struggles on recruit top athletes for the amount of success they've had and the money coming in. You don't like me taking shots at you... next time coin it differently.

It's not an indictment at all. It's a choice the program makes. Iowa struggling to move the ball in recent year (quite a few but not), is a program choice. Don't make mistakes. That in and of itself has an impact on top athletes.

Your response is laughable.,

 

[HawkGold]

It's absolutely ridiculous to take Iowa NFL success stories and then turn it around on the Iowa staff for under utilization. Who got them there? Fresh eyes, different system, different staffs can help elevate a player. Some folks don't like the state of the program, and that's fine. I want more too. I want to win more games. But Iowa is 33-19 the last 4 seasons, historically that's above average for Iowa. It's not great, it's not crap either. It's beyond tired

Tired are the years where Iowa falls almost completely flat. 33-19 is pretty good...until one looks at the schedule.
This year will be a nice test. Will be really nice to see if adding non traditional recruits will have an impact.

 

[InGoodCo]

No, not really Rob. Iowa struggles on recruit top athletes for the amount of success they've had and the money coming in. You don't like me taking shots at you... next time coin it differently.

It's not an indictment at all. It's a choice the program makes. Iowa struggling to move the ball in recent year (quite a few but not), is a program choice. Don't make mistakes. That in and of itself has an impact on top athletes.

Your response is laughable.,

It also wins ball games.

 

[InGoodCo]

Tired are the years where Iowa falls almost completely flat. 33-19 is pretty good...until one looks at the schedule.
This year will be a nice test. Will be really nice to see if adding non traditional recruits will have an impact.

You can look at any team schedule in the country and make comparisons maybe sans Notre Dame. I don't buy that either. Every team in the FBS is fueling on cupcakes

 

[HawkGold]

It also wins ball games.

KF has been overall a success. A terrific success? Not really. It's his choice and it's worked for him and the money changers at the U athletic department.

 

[HawkGold]

You can look at any team schedule in the country and make comparisons maybe sans Notre Dame. I don't buy that either. Every team in the FBS is fueling on cupcakes

I was referring MOSTLY to the break in the Big schedule the past few years which is changing. Iowa's NC strength of schedule....average? Maybe. Likely below.

KFs style is the same reason we didn't see BB more in 2002. Iowa had decent years that year and the year before. The year before might have been much better if it weren't for the risk tolerance or lack of it.

All I'm saying is that some (who knows how many) want come to a school where they have to pay their dues behind lesser talent due to the system. There is no argument there. Better believe Mich or Wisky will use that.

Top athletes have a different mind set.

KF has made his living by getting kids that are like "aw gee shucks, Iowa wants me, I'll go here over SDSU", as opposed to players, "I want to come to Iowa over Mich because it is a better place for me personally".

It's worked for him. When it works well, it's a thing of beauty. Most years it's so so OK and some years....puke..

Many of those Aw Gee Shucks players will run through walls for the guy. I'd rather not make a team of Rudy's. Nice to have, but not going to beat OSU for the crown very often.

 

[InGoodCo]

KF has been overall a success. A terrific success? Not really. It's his choice and it's worked for him and the money changers at the U athletic department.

He's going to leave the program with more B1G wins then any other coach at Iowa and likely be in the top 3 or 4 for wins in the ENTIRE B1G history. Some might call that terrific success. I honestly don't know where some fans minds are.

 

[HawkGold]

He's going to leave the program with more B1G wins then any other coach at Iowa and likely be in the top 3 or 4 for wins in the ENTIRE B1G history. Some might call that terrific success. I honestly don't know where some fans minds are.

I'm not arguing against that. On the counter though, if he left tomorrow there wouldn't be as many that finished with a bowl finish the past few years that he would.

Most coaches wouldn't have left CJ in last years game to get brutalized.

Honestly, do you think the 49ers took CJ because he learned to be a terrific QB at Iowa? What he accomplished his junior year was sheer guts.

 

[InGoodCo]

I was referring MOSTLY to the break in the Big schedule the past few years which is changing. Iowa's NC strength of schedule....average? Maybe. Likely below.

KFs style is the same reason we didn't see BB more in 2002. Iowa had decent years that year and the year before. The year before might have been much better if it weren't for the risk tolerance or lack of it.

All I'm saying is that some (who knows how many) want come to a school where they have to pay their dues behind lesser talent due to the system. There is no argument there. Better believe Mich or Wisky will use that.

Top athletes have a different mind set.

KF has made his living by getting kids that are like "aw gee shucks, Iowa wants me, I'll go here over SDSU", as opposed to players, "I want to come to Iowa over Mich because it is a better place for me personally".

It's worked for him. When it works well, it's a thing of beauty. Most years it's so so OK and some years....puke..

Many of those Aw Gee Shucks players will run through walls for the guy. I'd rather not make a team of Rudy's. Nice to have, but not going to beat OSU for the crown very often.

They haven't spent his entire tenure with breaks in the conference schedule, and he has absolutely NOTHING to do with that. Another thing to crucify him for I suppose. Brad Banks? You have to be kidding me right? He was a JUCO who in 2001 it was his first season in the system and Iowa returned Kyle McCann who had a ton of experience on him. Asking a coach to start BB over what he had is not really understanding how players progress into starting rolls. Who's to say he was our best option that season? I wouldn't concede that.

KF has had 3 losing seasons in 18 years, not a lot to puke about. I would imagine his winning percentage in the conference over that time span is top 3 or 4 and Iowa is anything but a program full of Rudy's.

We differ on how we see the program, that's clear. I appreciate your opinion - we can agree to disagree.

 

[InGoodCo]

Honestly, do you think the 49ers took CJ because he learned to be a terrific QB at Iowa? What he accomplished his junior year was sheer guts.

Yes?

 

[HawkGold]

They haven't spent his entire tenure with breaks in the conference schedule, and he has absolutely NOTHING to do with that. Another thing to crucify him for I suppose. Brad Banks? You have to be kidding me right? He was a JUCO who in 2001 it was his first season in the system and Iowa returned Kyle McCann who had a ton of experience on him. Asking a coach to start BB over what he had is not really understanding how players progress into starting rolls. Who's to say he was our best option that season? I wouldn't concede that.

KF has had 3 losing seasons in 18 years, not a lot to puke about. I would imagine his winning percentage in the conference over that time span is top 3 or 4 and Iowa is anything but a program full of Rudy's.

We differ on how we see the program, that's clear. I appreciate your opinion - we can agree to disagree.

And I would disagree about Brad Banks. Iowa very well could have had 2002 a year earlier and not have the ISU mistakes in 02.

Staying 7-5 is a basically being below 500 for a P5 team with weak scheduling.

KF has done well. I'm not trashing that. For some, it's hard to look honestly at things. Several years ago, Alabama looked honestly at themselves and investigated what Iowa was doing on the line. Programs should evaluate constantly.

I think it's a fair question to ask why he didn't get more plays when healthy. It's a fair question about Wadley not starting.


It's no more not fair than mentioning how KF has been successful.

If the new RB makes an obvious difference but doesn't play because he is new....that's a fair question.

And I get back to the premise.....why didn't he get more carries and does it impact recruiting? For me the first answer is because of the system and Yes it does impact recruiting.

And Iowa may in the next 8 years of KF have 6 7-5 seasons, one lower and one higher. The next guy might not improve on that. Doesn't mean the question can't be asked.

 

[RobHowe]

No, not really Rob. Iowa struggles on recruit top athletes for the amount of success they've had and the money coming in. You don't like me taking shots at you... next time coin it differently.

It's not an indictment at all. It's a choice the program makes. Iowa struggling to move the ball in recent year (quite a few but not), is a program choice. Don't make mistakes. That in and of itself has an impact on top athletes.

Your response is laughable.,

You're taking a positive story and trying to mold you negative attitudes towards the program around it. You do it consistently on these boards and it's tiring. As I said, it's predictable. It doesn't make it any less tiring. And if you continue to do it and will continue to point it out.

You have this collection of negative observations from the last 20 years that you bring up during multiple discussions, trying to pound home your points. We get it. You don't like KF and how he runs his program.

This could have been a thread talking about unheralded McCarron making a move for an NFL roster spot. Instead, you turn it into your agenda that Iowa can't get top athletes because it's too conservative. That's what you've done. Maybe you can find a way to get rhabdo into the discussion.

 

[InGoodCo]

And I would disagree about Brad Banks. Iowa very well could have had 2002 a year earlier and not have the ISU mistakes in 02.

Staying 7-5 is a basically being below 500 for a P5 team with weak scheduling.

KF has done well. I'm not trashing that. For some, it's hard to look honestly at things. Several years ago, Alabama looked honestly at themselves and investigated what Iowa was doing on the line. Programs should evaluate constantly.

I think it's a fair question to ask why he didn't get more plays when healthy. It's a fair question about Wadley not starting.


It's no more not fair than mentioning how KF has been successful.

If the new RB makes an obvious difference but doesn't play because he is new....that's a fair question.

And I get back to the premise.....why didn't he get more carries and does it impact recruiting? For me the first answer is because of the system and Yes it does impact recruiting.

And Iowa may in the next 8 years of KF have 6 7-5 seasons, one lower and one higher. The next guy might not improve on that. Doesn't mean the question can't be asked.

How many Juco's around the country are coming in and beating out guys that had started in the previous season? I bet not many. You're reaching IMO. And you and I have no idea if that is a true statement or not.

Staying 7-5 is NOTHING like basically being below .500 for a P5 team. It's like being 2 or 3 games above it. I am not great at math, but there's no other way to spin that. You're statement is 100% false and there's no way you can say that take is not intellectually dishonest.

I'm all for questions. Wadley didn't start last season because Daniels was every bit as good and a year ahead of him maturity wise. He also had only 1 year of eligibility left. Had Daniels not played and then went to New England, you'd be crucifying KF for THAT.

I'm all about asking questions about this staff and of KF. Being critical is not a bad trait of a fan - but creating false narratives that just flat out aren't true are going to get a reaction from me.

 

[HawkGold]

You're taking a positive story and trying to mold you negative attitudes towards the program around it. You do it consistently on these boards and it's tiring. As I said, it's predictable. It doesn't make it any less tiring. And if you continue to do it and will continue to point it out.

You have this collection of negative observations from the last 20 years that you bring up during multiple discussions, trying to pound home your points. We get it. You don't like KF and how he runs his program.

This could have been a thread talking about unheralded McCarron making a move for an NFL roster spot. Instead, you turn it into your agenda that Iowa can't get top athletes because it's too conservative. That's what you've done. Maybe you can find a way to get rhabdo into the discussion.

What ever Rob. It is a feel good story. If he ends up making you honestly as a reporter don't ask why? Even if it is injury later, you really don't ask that question?

 

[HawkGold]

How many Juco's around the country are coming in and beating out guys that had started in the previous season? I bet not many. You're reaching IMO. And you and I have no idea if that is a true statement or not.

Staying 7-5 is NOTHING like basically being below .500 for a P5 team. It's like being 2 or 3 games above it. I am not great at math, but there's no other way to spin that. You're statement is 100% false and there's no way you can say that take is not intellectually dishonest.

I'm all for questions. Wadley didn't start last season because Daniels was every bit as good and a year ahead of him maturity wise. He also had only 1 year of eligibility left. Had Daniels not played and then went to New England, you'd be crucifying KF for THAT.

I'm all about asking questions about this staff and of KF. Being critical is not a bad trait of a fan - but creating false narratives that just flat out aren't true are going to get a reaction from me.

There is no falseness there. Juco's have their own issues including learning a system.

I'm not crucifying KF here. It's an honest question. It happens that players slip through the cracks.

A 7-5 P5 teams playing 2 cupcakes and a midland team is effectively going to be below 500 against P5 opponents or 500 at best.

It's a system thing. You obviously didn't read my post. RM didn't fit well into the system for playing time. It would be a very talented team that an NFL player didn't make it as a regular when healthy on a P5 team.

People do slip through the cracks. Read the story of Brett Butler. Someone screwed up.OR he didn't fit into the system which is a valid reason.

 

[InGoodCo]

What ever Rob. It is a feel good story. If he ends up making you honestly as a reporter don't ask why? Even if it is injury later, you really don't ask that question?

No 1. He had a very good senior year at Iowa and helped them win a couple of B1G ball games - without him - Iowa is probably a 6 win team and 2. He was a walk on who actually contributed, on the field, to a B1G team. Why would you ask a question of why he was so little used when this staff paved his way to the NFL?

 

[InGoodCo]

There is no falseness there. Juco's have their own issues including learning a system.

I'm not crucifying KF here. It's an honest question. It happens that players slip through the cracks.

A 7-5 P5 teams playing 2 cupcakes and a midland team is effectively going to be below 500 against P5 opponents or 500 at best.

It's a system thing. You obviously didn't read my post. RM didn't fit well into the system for playing time. It would be a very talented team that an NFL player didn't make it as a regular when healthy on a P5 team.

People do slip through the cracks. Read the story of Brett Butler. Someone screwed up.OR he didn't fit into the system which is a valid reason.

You are saying the Brad Banks should have started his Junior season after being in the system for a few months over McCann who had multiple starts. I think that's crazy to assume that the coaching staff just over looked him as you are suggesting.

Players slip through to cracks, I get that, but I imagine it happens LESS at a program like Iowa, who needs to utilize every bit of their talent to be a successful football team. You kind of prove my point when you say RM is a better fit for BOB's system in Houston. How is that Ferentz's fault?