Big Ten Coaches Want Harbaugh Nailed to the Wall Now

[NorthKCHawk]

Wow, the coaches were allowed to vent to the Commish for an hour without Harbaugh on the line. What I took away from this is how serious this really was. There were some folks out there that were dismissive of the seriousness of what Michigan was doing (everyone steals signs, this is no big deal). It sounds like the coaches (rightfully) expressed that this level of sophisticated cheating absolutely changed games. One has to look no further than Michigan's record before this scheme started and after. Aint it funny how Jim could not beat OSU (a team that does a lot of sideline audibles) before he started cheating, but now has beat them back to back?

The conference won't act before the season ends because Michigan could make the playoffs. Too much money. But, I am growing confident that this will be the last season Harbaugh ever coaches in college. I also expect Michigan's wins will be vacated.

If the Commish had any balls he would suspend Harbuagh immediately. They have plenty of evidence, they don't need the full report to know where this is heading.

Sources: Coaches urge Big Ten to act on Michigan

A vast majority of the Big Ten coaches expressed their frustrations with the ongoing signal-stealing investigation at Michigan in a video call with commissioner Tony Petitti on Wednesday that was described as both intense and emotional, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[kicker22]

This is a big deal and should be. Harbaugh is scum yet somehow he gets always seems to get away with nothing more then a slap on the wrist. The NCAA is so concerned about athletes gambling and the "integrity of the sport" and how that needs to be monitored, but this is way bigger then that, because it is cheating and Michigan got caught. The conference is going to get absolutely destroyed by the media, and they rightfully should, if Michigan gets into the playoffs and nothings done until the season ends.

Every coach should be pissed and Michigan and Harbaugh should be hammered by not only the conference but the NCAA as well.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Wow, the coaches were allowed to vent to the Commish for an hour without Harbaugh on the line. What I took away from this is how serious this really was. There were some folks out there that were dismissive of the seriousness of what Michigan was doing (everyone steals signs, this is no big deal). It sounds like the coaches (rightfully) expressed that this level of sophisticated cheating absolutely changed games. One has to look no further than Michigan's record before this scheme started and after. Aint it funny how Jim could not beat OSU (a team that does a lot of sideline audibles) before he started cheating, but now has beat them back to back?

The conference won't act before the season ends because Michigan could make the playoffs. Too much money. But, I am growing confident that this will be the last season Harbaugh ever coaches in college. I also expect Michigan's wins will be vacated.

If the Commish had any balls he would suspend Harbuagh immediately. They have plenty of evidence, they don't need the full report to know where this is heading.

Sources: Coaches urge Big Ten to act on Michigan

A vast majority of the Big Ten coaches expressed their frustrations with the ongoing signal-stealing investigation at Michigan in a video call with commissioner Tony Petitti on Wednesday that was described as both intense and emotional, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

Yea, when you know the exact plays you are going up or defending, you are going to be successful in Div 1 football. Michigan just took the sign stealing to a new level with this guy and I think a crew he had. I'd like to look at the defensive stats and how much they improved since it was proven this guy was doing this.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Ok, for those in the know, what crosses the line here between scouting and this? Just curious.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Think of it this way:

If you were a professional poker player, you study opponents tendencies, movements, facial expressions, etc., as much as you could to identify the "tells." That's preparation/scouting.

Now, let's say you have someone behind the opponent with binoculars telling you in some fashion what his/her hole cards are.

One method is part of competition. The other would get your fingers and knee caps broke in the old days.

 

[hawkinn3]

College sports, like all businesses, chose money over morals a long time ago.

I feel as a fan who doesn’t gamble I’m the last person the product is for these days.

It’s the Wild West, who cares at this point.

 

[InGoodCo]

I hope he gets the hammer

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Think of it this way:

If you were a professional poker player, you study opponents tendencies, movements, facial expressions, etc., as much as you could to identify the "tells." That's preparation/scouting.

Now, let's say you have someone behind the opponent with binoculars telling you in some fashion what his/her hole cards are.

One method is part of competition. The other would get your fingers and knee caps broke in the old days.

Good way of putting it. Yeah it's one thing to scout and do homework so when they lineup in a certain formation personnel wise on 1st and 10 from midfield that you have a good idea of what they are doing. It's another thing to be 100% sure.

 

[SCHawkeye2]

How low is the Mendoza line for cheating?

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Ok, for those in the know, what crosses the line here between scouting and this? Just curious.

Ok, for those in the know, what crosses the line here between scouting and this? Just curious.

The guy was getting tickets for him and his crew to away games. No biggy, but he was finding a way onto the sidelines and stealing the signs. Then at Michigan games he was on the sideline right next to the coaches, D coordinator and deciphering what the play call was going to be.

Now, I just heard once a player for an opposing coach got interviewed and said when they played Iowa in the past, when they saw a RB line up 8 yrds back they knew the play call was going to be a run and when Iowa had a RB 6 yrds back they knew they were going to pass. That is scouting tendencies which is fine.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

It is interesting that the conference has the ability to do what the coaches involved here are asking... Will they?? I'm not holding my breath but it'd sure be interesting if they did. I'd also love to know what individual coaches all said what. I know that'll never happen but yeah ole Jimmy isn't making any friends.

 

[Chickenlounge]

I hope he gets the hammer

 

[okeefe4prez]

The guy was getting tickets for him and his crew to away games. No biggy, but he was finding a way onto the sidelines and stealing the signs. Then at Michigan games he was on the sideline right next to the coaches, D coordinator and deciphering what the play call was going to be.

Now, I just heard once a player for an opposing coach got interviewed and said when they played Iowa in the past, when they saw a RB line up 8 yrds back they knew the play call was going to be a run and when Iowa had a RB 6 yrds back they knew they were going to pass. That is scouting tendencies which is fine.

Maybe we should start putting the RB 12 yards deep on every play just to throw them off the scent.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

It is interesting that the conference has the ability to do what the coaches involved here are asking... Will they?? I'm not holding my breath but it'd sure be interesting if they did. I'd also love to know what individual coaches all said what. I know that'll never happen but yeah ole Jimmy isn't making any friends.

Look, Michigan is certainly one of the big swinging dicks in this conference, but unlike the Big 12 of old, the Big 10 is pretty damn egalitarian with its members. The Comish has to try and keep everyone happy. I think there is going to be real pressure to act and act aggressively. I just find it near impossible to believe that it will happen before the end of this season. Too much money at stake.

Then again, I never thought they would fire BF in season, so shit happens.

 

[99topdawg]

Ok, for those in the know, what crosses the line here between scouting and this? Just curious.

I really don't know the NCAA rules, but my guess would be the recording of the signals. I don't know if it's illegal to send someone to a game to try to steal signals. I don't see a problem with it, but that's just me.

As a baseball coach, I have kids assigned to writing down all touch sequences to see what the other team's signs are. I also have a running list of numbers that teams call out for signs. There aren't many teams I don't have signs for, which is why I hate coaching changes. Is this unethical? I say no way. If I wasn't supposed to steal signs, we should all close our eyes while the catcher holds up 1 finger or 2. When a team is stealing signals from 2nd base from my catcher, I sure as heck don't get mad at the base runner. That's just good baseball. I also relay to our hitters what pitch is coming when the pitcher tips his pitches. There aren't many pitchers I can't figure out. Similar to FB coaches. If you see something often enough, it's easy to steal. If someone can steal them by watching, I have no problems with it (not sure if the NCAA agrees). If the signs are recorded, I have a problem with that.

 

[kicker22]

Look, Michigan is certainly one of the big swinging dicks in this conference, but unlike the Big 12 of old, the Big 10 is pretty damn egalitarian with its members. The Comish has to try and keep everyone happy. I think there is going to be real pressure to act and act aggressively. I just find it near impossible to believe that it will happen before the end of this season. Too much money at stake.

Then again, I never thought they would fire BF in season, so shit happens.

Agreed and that in itself is the biggest issue. Nothing they do after the season ends will take away the results on the field which is the product of the cheating. And if after the season they take away wins, or even championships, so what. It takes it from the record books but you can't tell me those following (Michigan fans, recruits, and college football fans in general) won't forget that they still won something regardless of fair or not.

If the conference cares, and I mean truly cares, and wants this behavior to end you have to punish the program immediately. Whether it be loss of future scholarships, suspending coaching staff, fining the university, etc... if they don't act now it becomes as big a joke as tatoogate at OSU was.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

The guy was getting tickets for him and his crew to away games. No biggy, but he was finding a way onto the sidelines and stealing the signs. Then at Michigan games he was on the sideline right next to the coaches, D coordinator and deciphering what the play call was going to be.

Now, I just heard once a player for an opposing coach got interviewed and said when they played Iowa in the past, when they saw a RB line up 8 yrds back they knew the play call was going to be a run and when Iowa had a RB 6 yrds back they knew they were going to pass. That is scouting tendencies which is fine.

I see, thanks for the explanation Melrose. Ya, that is pretty shitty of Harblow.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

I really don't know the NCAA rules, but my guess would be the recording of the signals. I don't know if it's illegal to send someone to a game to try to steal signals. I don't see a problem with it, but that's just me.

As a baseball coach, I have kids assigned to writing down all touch sequences to see what the other team's signs are. I also have a running list of numbers that teams call out for signs. There aren't many teams I don't have signs for, which is why I hate coaching changes. Is this unethical? I say no way. If I wasn't supposed to steal signs, we should all close our eyes while the catcher holds up 1 finger or 2. When a team is stealing signals from 2nd base from my catcher, I sure as heck don't get mad at the base runner. That's just good baseball. I also relay to our hitters what pitch is coming when the pitcher tips his pitches. There aren't many pitchers I can't figure out. Similar to FB coaches. If you see something often enough, it's easy to steal. If someone can steal them by watching, I have no problems with it (not sure if the NCAA agrees). If the signs are recorded, I have a problem with that.

Thanks 99......thankfully (sadly) not much to steal from us....run 1, run 2, pass 1, pass 2, and punt formation. lol

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Think of it this way:

If you were a professional poker player, you study opponents tendencies, movements, facial expressions, etc., as much as you could to identify the "tells." That's preparation/scouting.

Now, let's say you have someone behind the opponent with binoculars telling you in some fashion what his/her hole cards are.

One method is part of competition. The other would get your fingers and knee caps broke in the old days.

Look what he did to my hand man!

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Agreed and that in itself is the biggest issue. Nothing they do after the season ends will take away the results on the field which is the product of the cheating. And if after the season they take away wins, or even championships, so what. It takes it from the record books but you can't tell me those following (Michigan fans, recruits, and college football fans in general) won't forget that they still won something regardless of fair or not.

If the conference cares, and I mean truly cares, and wants this behavior to end you have to punish the program immediately. Whether it be loss of future scholarships, suspending coaching staff, fining the university, etc... if they don't act now it becomes as big a joke as tatoogate at OSU was.

While I give this about 15% chance of happening, the right thing to do is to immediately suspend Harbaugh, but allow the remaining coaching staff to coach out the end of the year. Don't get me wrong, just from what is publicly known, I think the program deserves the death sentence. But you have to balance a lot of interest, not the least of which is that this is a flagship program in a current hunt for a playoff birth. So, you shoot the most visible hostage, let the players and remaining coaches try to bring it home without getting hand signals from the back bench, and then clean house in the offseason.

Harbaugh deserves to be booted now, without any more time on the field.
The players deserve a shot to try and finish out the season without cheating. They are talented, and if they can beat OSU and PSU, they deserve to go to the playoffs

That is how I would balance this all out.