BF Blowup, Whistles, Refs on field
- Thread starter uihawk82
- Start date
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Butler was moving forward the entire play. Even when it looked like Minny had him stopped, he was falling forward. If the refs would have blown the whistle, we'd all be bitching that they blew it too early costing us extra yardage....
Here's the only clip I can find of the play. Usually the entire game is eventually posted to youtube.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I agree, felt they should have ruled the play dead. As it was called though the reversal was correct.
AreWeThereYet
Well-Known Member
It is irrelevant to the outcome of the play when the whistle "should have been" called. It only depends on when the whistle was blown. Yes, the forward progress should have been called. It wasn't. That's the way the ball bounces.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
In the end, don't put the ball on the turf, then this whole deal is moot.
GoHawks12345
Well-Known Member
A Minnesota player would have needed to have recovered the ball before the whistle as well. Not just that the ball came out.
I'd need to see the replay again to know how long that took. Did they immediately catch it after the strip?
I'd need to see the replay again to know how long that took. Did they immediately catch it after the strip?
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
His feet are still getting traction and moving up field. Right call on the field from the get go.
GoHawks12345
Well-Known Member
Call on the field was Iowa ball, no fumble recovery.
Ree4
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong but my understanding of the rule is that because it was ruled Iowa ball/no fumble on the play - play dead for forward progress that the play was not eligible to be reviewed. I don't see this case specifically listed in the eligible to be reviewed section but I'm not looking that hard.
I do think that it was a fumble but because of the call on the field it should have stayed Iowa ball.
Anyone else want to take a shot?
Rulebook
Dead Ball and Loose Ball
ARTICLE 3. Reviewable plays involving potential dead balls and loose balls
include:
c. Live ball not ruled dead in possession of a ball carrier.
d. Loose ball ruled dead (Rule 4-1-2-b-2), or live ball ruled dead in
possession of a ball carrier, when the clear recovery of a loose ball occurs
in the immediate continuing football action.
1. If the ball is ruled dead and the replay official does not have
indisputable video evidence as to which team recovers, the dead-ball
ruling stands.
2. If the replay official rules that the ball was not dead, it belongs to
the recovering team at the spot of the recovery and any advance is
nullified.
e. Ball carrier’s forward progress, spot of fumble, or spot of out-of-bounds
backward pass, with respect to a first down or the goal line.
__________________________________________________________
Rule 4:
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar; when a ball carrier is out of bounds;
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot [Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or at the snap is in position to
kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked,
passed or advanced by rule] (A.R. 4-1-3-I).
c. When a touchdown, touchback, safety, field goal or successful try occurs;
or when a free kick or a scrimmage kick that is untouched by Team B
beyond the neutral zone touches the ground in Team B’s end zone (Rules
6-1-7-a, 6-3-9, and A.R. 6-3-9-I).
d. When, during a try, a dead-ball rule applies (Rule 8-3-2-d-5).
e. When a player of the kicking team catches or recovers any free kick or a
scrimmage kick that has crossed the neutral zone.
f. When a free kick, scrimmage kick or any other loose ball comes to rest
and no player attempts to secure it.
g. When a scrimmage kick or a free kick is caught or recovered by any player
after a valid or invalid fair-catch signal; or when an invalid fair-catch
signal is made after a catch or recovery by Team B (Rules 2-8-1 through
3).
h. When there is a return kick or a scrimmage kick is made beyond the
neutral zone.
i. When a forward pass is ruled incomplete.
j. When, before a change of team possession on fourth down or a try, a
Team A fumble is caught or recovered by a Team A player other than the
fumbler (Rules 7-2-2-a and -b and 8-3-2-d-5).
k. When a live ball not in player possession touches anything inbounds
other than a player, a player’s equipment, an official, an official’s equipment
or the ground (inadvertent-whistle provisions apply).
l. When there is a simultaneous catch or recovery of a live ball.
m. When the ball becomes illegal while in play (inadvertent-whistle
provisions apply).
n. When a live ball comes into possession of an official (inadvertent-whistle
provisions apply).
o. When a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground.
p. When an airborne pass receiver of either team is held so that he is
prevented from immediately returning to the ground (A.R. 7-3-6-III).
q. When a ball carrier’s helmet comes completely off.
r. When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. (A.R. 4-1-3-III)
I do think that it was a fumble but because of the call on the field it should have stayed Iowa ball.
Anyone else want to take a shot?
Rulebook
Dead Ball and Loose Ball
ARTICLE 3. Reviewable plays involving potential dead balls and loose balls
include:
c. Live ball not ruled dead in possession of a ball carrier.
d. Loose ball ruled dead (Rule 4-1-2-b-2), or live ball ruled dead in
possession of a ball carrier, when the clear recovery of a loose ball occurs
in the immediate continuing football action.
1. If the ball is ruled dead and the replay official does not have
indisputable video evidence as to which team recovers, the dead-ball
ruling stands.
2. If the replay official rules that the ball was not dead, it belongs to
the recovering team at the spot of the recovery and any advance is
nullified.
e. Ball carrier’s forward progress, spot of fumble, or spot of out-of-bounds
backward pass, with respect to a first down or the goal line.
__________________________________________________________
Rule 4:
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar; when a ball carrier is out of bounds;
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot [Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or at the snap is in position to
kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked,
passed or advanced by rule] (A.R. 4-1-3-I).
c. When a touchdown, touchback, safety, field goal or successful try occurs;
or when a free kick or a scrimmage kick that is untouched by Team B
beyond the neutral zone touches the ground in Team B’s end zone (Rules
6-1-7-a, 6-3-9, and A.R. 6-3-9-I).
d. When, during a try, a dead-ball rule applies (Rule 8-3-2-d-5).
e. When a player of the kicking team catches or recovers any free kick or a
scrimmage kick that has crossed the neutral zone.
f. When a free kick, scrimmage kick or any other loose ball comes to rest
and no player attempts to secure it.
g. When a scrimmage kick or a free kick is caught or recovered by any player
after a valid or invalid fair-catch signal; or when an invalid fair-catch
signal is made after a catch or recovery by Team B (Rules 2-8-1 through
3).
h. When there is a return kick or a scrimmage kick is made beyond the
neutral zone.
i. When a forward pass is ruled incomplete.
j. When, before a change of team possession on fourth down or a try, a
Team A fumble is caught or recovered by a Team A player other than the
fumbler (Rules 7-2-2-a and -b and 8-3-2-d-5).
k. When a live ball not in player possession touches anything inbounds
other than a player, a player’s equipment, an official, an official’s equipment
or the ground (inadvertent-whistle provisions apply).
l. When there is a simultaneous catch or recovery of a live ball.
m. When the ball becomes illegal while in play (inadvertent-whistle
provisions apply).
n. When a live ball comes into possession of an official (inadvertent-whistle
provisions apply).
o. When a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground.
p. When an airborne pass receiver of either team is held so that he is
prevented from immediately returning to the ground (A.R. 7-3-6-III).
q. When a ball carrier’s helmet comes completely off.
r. When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. (A.R. 4-1-3-III)
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
The play wasn't ruled dead for forward progress. It was ruled dead for the runner being down.
Ree4
Well-Known Member
Ah, welp there goes that
homes
Well-Known Member
Agree with this. Situationally, since the clock was winding down, Butler would have been wise just to go down to the ground and run another play. Struggling for an extra yard at that time burning up precious seconds versus the risk of the fumble (particularly since the stack and strip move is popular and seemingly allowed) wasn't worth it. It's against instincts of a football player, but it's the "smart" play. It would be hard to coach your players to do this.
Personally I feel like the fumbles that should not count are ones where it is clear that the helmet is used to dislodge the football. The helmet is supposed to be for protection, not as a weapon. It's cheap.
DJI9424
Well-Known Member
That would come down to a judgment call because the ball is not stationary in the ball carrier's hands - he could be switching it to the other arm when being tackled or moving his arm to retain his balance while making a cut, etc. and the tackler's helmet comes in contact with the ball.
My point is there is no judgment involved when the opposing team is using their hands to rip the ball from the ball carrier when he has been effectively wrapped up and stopped by other players on the opposing team. Obviously, when that occurs, the smart move is for the ball carrier to do down on a knee before he loses control of the ball, but just like playground ball, your first instinct is to resist being stripped. And as the ball carrier is resisting, who knows what kind of injury could occur.
As you might surmise, I am "old school", I do not view an intentional strip of the ball carrier in the grasp as a legitimate football play. In my view it's comparable to the defensive "flop" in basketball. They NEVER called that a foul on the offensive player when I played, nor would the defense even consider it as a legitimate defensive play. But since it has come onto the scene, the referees have deemed it a legitimate move, much to the dismay of "purists" like myself. It is not good sportsmanship, instead it is gaming the rules, which in my view is little different than cheating. Sure, both teams can equally decide to use it to their advantage, but the teams who overdo it are gaming the system, which is the antithesis of good sportsmanship.
